Author Topic: Hand Spiking vs. Power Spiking  (Read 15555 times)

Jason M Lamontagne

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Hand Spiking vs. Power Spiking
« on: April 18, 2016, 06:00:02 AM »
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Perhaps the next step is an attachment for a jack hammer to drive the spikes.  That would help those of us who are getting a little long in the tooth for swinging a spike maul.

Jack hammer to drive spikes-- ahhhhh!  

Way back when we always had the idea that we were rebuilding the railroad by hand, they way they used to.  One by one we made compromises- each for very specific reasons.  The obvious one is the tamper- the reasoning that the railroad was never burdened with hand tamping stone ballast in the first place.  

I always figured the last bastion would be hand spiking- the literal building of the railroad by hand.  It has come up before and I figured it'd come up again; someday we may even need to move on to power spiking if the majority of the crew is giving up on hand spiking.  Maybe that's sooner than later, I don't know.  But the above, and below, conversation should be had.

If power spiking is to be adopted, there are mechanical realities involved.  Jack hammers are not used; spiking hammers are specific devices that are enormously heavier than a tamping hammer (as a point of reference).  They are so heavy that unless you're built for this work, can't be effectively controlled.  Most of our current spikers wouldn't be spiking.  They're so hard to control that quality goes down the tubes.  They way one can start a spike tight and draw a rail by hand spiking- may be possible with someone with extreme skill on a power spiker, but I suspect not by any of us.  All in all its not a lot of fun; between the noise and the logistics of setting this thing(s) up and dragging it around, the dynamics of our volunteer force rebuilding the old railroad out in the Maine woods would completely change.  

Personally I group radio communication and power spiking in the same place, for us.

Just my opinion!  Figured the two sides deserve hearing out, as they have been in the past.

See ya
Jason
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 05:00:29 PM by Ed Lecuyer »

Jonathan B. Smith

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Re: 2016 rail purchase
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2016, 06:21:25 AM »
Concur with Jason's spiking comments above from one who is not particularly adept with the spike maul.
Spiking by hand is yet another of the varied skills to be learned at the RR.  There's no reason to go "mechanical" in this department.

Wayne Laepple

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Re: 2016 rail purchase
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2016, 06:34:47 AM »
I've driven a lot of spikes by hand, as well as with a pneumatic spiker, and I agree with Jason. Using a power spiker is brutal work, in some way more so than hand spiking. Once we tried using a smaller, lighter hydraulic device, and unless the ties were pre-drilled, it didn't work at all. It would put the spike in, all but the last inch or so, and then we had to finish them by hand. I used to enjoy hand spiking, but now I'm too old and creaky to be very productive.

Stephen Piwowarski

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Re: 2016 rail purchase
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2016, 08:00:06 AM »
As a now 30-ish person who got involved with railway preservation when I was young my thanks go out to the people older than myself who taught me the skills I have today. Perhaps as important as doing the actual work is finding some young person to pass the skills and passion you have on to. They don't usually turn up on their own, and it might take a bit of work to find them. When you do though- you haven't made a contribution that will last the museum several years- it may be one that lasts for an entire generation. Sure it is a little more difficult, but the payoff is immense. Every year I'd encourage people to bring someone new down at the museum for a work weekend.

I also am in favor of hand spiking because that is the way it would've been done on the original railway. Too many steps away from that and it just wouldn't be the same anymore.

Just my opinion,
Steve

Terry Harper

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Re: 2016 rail purchase
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2016, 08:59:21 AM »
I have found memories of driving spikes on the EL&WB project. Probably the most memorable was Ray Colemer lying under EL&WB no. 2 (which was resting on cribwork) using a very short handled maul to drive the last of the spikes. Because of the heat and the intense moose and horseflies that came out about noon, we would get on site at the crack of dawn and try to cram as much work in as we could before the swarms hit us. My job was to fan the insects away so Ray could concentrate on driving spikes. My respect for Ray went off the meter that day. I also made a mental note not to arm wrestle him.... ever.








Dave Buczkowski

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Re: 2016 rail purchase
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2016, 09:53:51 AM »
I'm firmly in the hand spiking category. Strangely, it helps loosen up my lower back. As a desk jockey I get a lot of satisfaction out of seeing what I and others have accomplished after a day or weekend of laying track. It's much more satisfying than the paper pushing I do out in the real world. I also enjoy meeting new volunteers who join the spiking crews. It would be hard to hold a conversation while the noise of a power spiker echoed off the hills. Of course, I'd miss the good natured ribbing we all give each other.

Philip Marshall

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Re: 2016 rail purchase
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2016, 02:39:42 PM »
I agree wholeheartedly on the importance of hand spiking. The museum isn't merely a collection of objects, it's also the institutional guardian of the skills and experiences necessary to build, operate, and maintain a working narrow gauge steam railroad as it was done 100 years ago, and the only way to preserve a set of skills is to use them regularly and teach them to the next generation.  There is also the aesthetic and spiritual value of hand craftsmanship and collaborative group labor.

Personally speaking, I enjoy swinging a spike maul on work weekends, but the importance of the act goes far beyond simple personal enjoyment.

Keith Taylor

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Re: 2016 rail purchase
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2016, 03:34:02 PM »
I guess this means the museum is not going to consider continuous welded rail?  :)

Keith

Ed Lecuyer

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Re: 2016 rail purchase
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2016, 03:36:43 PM »
Only if it's 60#.  :P
Ed Lecuyer
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Wayne Laepple

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Hand Spiking vs. Power Spiking
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2016, 03:41:45 PM »
Don't laugh, Ed. I believe it's available from Poland. The Welsh Highland has it.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 05:00:45 PM by Ed Lecuyer »

Jeff Schumaker

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Re: Hand Spiking vs. Power Spiking
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2016, 05:45:46 PM »
Although I'm not that good at it, I think we should stick with hand spiking. We already have spike mauls. Getting pneumatic spikers would be an additional drain on the museum budget.

Jeff S.
Hey Rocky, watch me pull a moose trout out of my hat.

Joe Fox

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Re: Hand Spiking vs. Power Spiking
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2016, 05:55:21 AM »
Having run two different air hammers, and a hydraulic one, let me say this. They are terrible. The lightest hammer weighs 80 lbs, and is followed with dragging hoses. Not fun to walk with from tie to tie. The most useful hammer I ran was....... 110 lbs. After two ties you are ready for a break. The air hammer may seem like less work, but its not. Spike mauls drive spikes just as fast as a air hammer.

Bill Piche

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Re: Hand Spiking vs. Power Spiking
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2016, 08:58:40 AM »
I know it's only been a day, but I'm surprised that nobody's brought up building a 2 ft work train complete with spike puller, tie puller/inserter, and spike driver sections. Already have the setout crane and the tamper, so that and a flat of ties and you're half way there! *ducks behind barricade*

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Ed Lecuyer

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Re: Hand Spiking vs. Power Spiking
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2016, 09:35:08 AM »
A few years ago I found a spiking machine that looked like it could be regauged. It was pretty close to the spirit of Big Joe Tamper, but not quite. I can't find it now, but I did find this:
http://www.loupiote.com/photos/4781299227.shtml?s=72157623545155411

Which does look like a contraption the WW&F would have created, if it mechanized.

That all said, I agree with Jason in principle, but since my own physical limitations preclude me from swinging a spike maul, I wonder if there is some sort of compromise.
Ed Lecuyer
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Bill Baskerville

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Re: Hand Spiking vs. Power Spiking
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2016, 10:22:32 AM »
Well, it seems that hand spiking is the way to go.  I must admit, though I miss more times then I hit, it makes me feel good that I can still swing a spike maul.  I know that we have a few volunteers that really impress me with their capabilities with a maul.

Bill
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