Jackson and Sharp passenger trucks - what to do with them

[Wayne Laepple]

Well, since we seem to have been poorly informed about passenger cars trucks on the two-footers, perhaps we can agree that freight car trucks are more or less inappropriate for passenger cars, and equipping passenger cars with trucks that will improve the ride quality, in addition to being more authentic than South African arch bars trucks, is not in and of itself a bad thing.

Perhaps Mr. Chase will educate us to the stylistic idiosyncrasies of Billmeyer & Small and Laconia trucks as as compared to the dread Jackson & Sharp trucks. I would hazard a guess that B&S trucks might be a type of wood-beam truck. The point is, we've got the J&S trucks in hand, giving us the opportunity to reproduce them.   

[Allan Fisher]

If I'm not mistaken, the two J&S trucks at Sheepscot came from under the SR&RL coach still at Edaville, They do need extensive overhaul, but will be excellent for patterns for new trucks for new coaches we will build in ten or fifteen years. With present ridership trends and our special events that create heavy ridership, the present passenger car fleet on the WW&F is adequate to handle foreseeable needs. Thus we have plenty of time to raise money for new trucks , and new cars.  To refurbish the existing trucks for Coach 8 will require $12,000 in donations (and the available volunteer time). Now can we close this thread and think about things we need to do in the next 5-10 years, and raise the money to do them, 

[Ed Lecuyer]

[Moderator's  Note]
A request has been made to lock this thread.

I don't take that lightly. Let's keep the discussion positive and civil. No need for excessive drooling over what we could/should build. We also don't need to add items to other museum's needs.

The forum is a great way for less-than-regular volunteers to kibitz and hobnob. It's also easy to dream (even aloud) on what is possible with the WW&F - and forget about what it takes to run the operation we already have. I know, until I started showing up at Sheepscot more regularly, I did the same thing.

Let's remember that this is a public forum for all the world to see. Let's focus on what needs to be done, and how to get it accomplished. We have great leadership and a wonderful core mission. All we need now is continued teamwork and cooperation, and maybe we can see additional replica coaches in our lifetime.

[Mike the Choochoo Nix]

I too am interested in the differences between the different brands of passenger car trucks. Also were there design changes over time? I know that even in five years you can find major changes in machines.

 Mikechoochoo Nix

[Ted Miles]

Matthew,

you should read the Edaville book by Linnwood Moody circa 1947. Bosicly it shows what they had when they started Edaville. A few passenger cars and a lot of freight cars.

Over the years their Shop turned out a number of "passenger cars" including the #8 which rode on freight car (arch bar trucks) which are not right for passenger cars except the occasional caboose. Even there the cabooses usually got better springs than the freight cars had.

Here is the roster in the book:

four locomotives which you know about

Freight:   These are mainly B&SR cars

           Box : 15 cars
           Flat:  14 cars
     Excurson:   4 cars
           Tank:  2 cars
      Caboose:  557 ex SR & RL 557
                     101 ex B & SR  101
       Snow plow 2 cars
            Flanger 1 car

So they had an abundence of freight car trucks to use on the home built cars. Some of the home built cars were pretty nice like the #8 others were pretty crude like the #202 that the WW& F got from Portland and took apart for mainly the trucks. You can see more of them down in Portland in the Maine Narrow Gauge collection. 

Ted Miles, WW&F Life member and Maine Narrow Gauge collector
 

[Wayne Laepple]

At the risk of further chastisement, I am not quite ready to let this topic die. More than two years ago, I began disassembly of the J&S trucks at the behest of the Chief Mechanical Officer. It was my understanding at that time that the trucks would be repaired sooner rather than later and be placed beneath coach 8 or caboose 320. It later came to light that there was some problem with the gauge of the wheel sets in those trucks, and work was halted.

Since then, the trucks have languished on track 7, with the parts I removed perched on top. I am concerned that at some point, someone will need a piece of flat or bar stock and will simply walk away with some component, leaving someone else to figure out what happened to it. Had I known that work was going to be truncated, not to be picked up for an extended period of time, I would never have disassembled the trucks to begin with.

Now we learn that the trucks may be held for five years or perhaps longer, until the need for additional passenger rolling stock is evident. If that's the case, the parts should be put back in place and wired fast so they don't accidentally become separated from the trucks.

But -- wouldn't it make sense to overhaul the trucks sooner rather than later and install them under coach 8? There is at least one spare arch bar truck on hand, from which the wheels (presumably of correct gauge) could be removed and installed in one J&S truck. The second arch bar truck could be removed from no. 8 and its wheels also taken for use in the other J&S truck. With some advance planning, I think this could be accomplished in just a few weeks, since the wheels would presumably not require reprofiling. Making the trade amongst the first arch bar/J&S trucks would be a lesson, allowing the same operation to go more quickly the second time around. During these overhauls, the necessary brake beams and rigging could be installed on the J&S trucks.

Just asking. Seems a shame for these valuable trucks to sit around and rust for years before use.

[Pete "Cosmo" Barrington]

Ok, I definitely agree with Wayne that the trucks should not only be not wasted, but that some action be taken to keep them more or less intact until they are (hopefully "sooner than later") refurbished for use.
I would also like to know the differences between the diffetent makes (B&S vs J&S etc) of passenger trucks, if for no other reason than my own education on the subject.
I suppose what I'm most interested to know is, can one redily tell the difference by just looking (under the car) when the trucks are installed?
While the "demand" for exact replica J&S trucks may not be as great as I imagined, there certainly seems to be some shared need between all the museums for good, solid passenger style trucks.

[Jason M Lamontagne]

My understanding is that the trucks in question are from B&SR Baggage Car 11, now at Boothbay Railway as a coach.

The wheelsets need to be turned, but there is plenty of material left to do this.  I don't recall any backgauge issue.  One wheelset actually made it's way into the 24" lathe- but the set up was very impractical- that lathe is really too small for wheelwork unless in a real pinch.  The big lathe we now have will make this more feasible.

The remainder of the trucks are somewhat beaten up but the core parts are entirely servicable.  The plan we have had right along is to thoroughly restore these trucks to like-new condition, as opposed to doing as little as possible to make them servicable.  This will mean complete dismantling, straightening of bar frame members, re-fabrication of all wood components, brake gear and swing gear per the J&S drawing.  We've seen this as prime opportunity to get a pair of passenger trucks in perfectly servicable and historic condition- instead of throwing them together as quickly as possible- to end up with just another pair of servicable, but cobbled old trucks.  I don't think we should waste opportunity to do this right and be proud of it. 

As such- rushing to get these trucks under coach 8 doesn't make a lot of sense.  Our plan has indeed been to put these trucks under a coach 2 replica.  Having trucks ready would be a major incentive to this project- and we're currently working on rounding out the few J&S coach drawings we have. 

Even if they end up under coach 8- I still think we should do it right. 

No 9 has taken the priority over the truck project.  Our shop plan has been to pull the trucks into Bay 4 for their thorough overhaul once No 9 is out the door.  Mix in railcars, No 10 maintenance- the occasional #52 failure, and other needs... There is only so much volunteer resource available and we set our priorities, and we make our decisions based on the information and resources available to us.  Please- let's all keep that in mind when revisiting those decisions.

Jason

[Wayne Laepple]

Thanks very much for setting the record straight regarding the J&S trucks, Jason. I'm almost sure I was told somewhere along the line that there was an issue with the gauge of the wheels, but it could be my advancing age is messing with my mind. Anyway, I'm glad to know the trucks are in the queue for overhaul somewhat sooner rather than later. I'll continue on the record as favoring their use under coach 8 until such time as they are needed for a replica of some original WW&F coach -- unless in the meantime the decision is reached to build new trucks. Now, if could just do something about those longitudinal seats in coach 8.....

[Mike Fox]

Those longitudinal seats work great for capacity. Cheek to cheek seating.

[John McNamara]

Those longitudinal seats work great for capacity. Cheek to cheek seating.

They are rather ugly and not at all as classy and comfortable as the seats in coach 3. However, they are good for capacity, as Mike notes, and they are good for families or other groups that want to sit together with some "cheek to cheek" and some across the aisle.

[Keith Taylor]

Cushions might be nice!

[Dwight Winkley]

I heard #8 had cushions at Edaville.

[John McNamara]

Cushions might be nice!

We might be able to get a good deal on a few dozen of those joke cushions that make a farting noise when people sit on them....

[Ed Lecuyer]

Coach 8 is a fairly decent representation of Coach 4 from the original railroad. Since Coach 4 had seats like Coach 3, I'd like to see it have real seats in it as well, someday. To the average visitor, they will never notice the difference between a freight archbar truck or a J&S passenger truck. They will notice, and appreciate, having replica seats to sit in.

It's not like we need the extra passenger capacity like Edaville did when they built the coach.