Jackson and Sharp passenger trucks - what to do with them

[Ted Miles]

I would like to go at this question from the other direction. I have read that the WW&F Museum bought a pair of Jackson & Sharp passenger trucks from the Edaville, USA operation. So the question is what car will they be used under?

Is it something existing or one of the several proposed cars?

The Museum's Five Year Plan has some cars listed as possible ways to increase the collection with useful additions to the rolling stock. Let's refer to that!

Ted Miles

[Eric Bolton]

I believe that they are going to be for coach 8. This would then free up a pair of arch bar trucks.

[Mike Fox]

I think the trucks need a little work before installation. But I can't remember what.

[Dave Crow]

Hopefully Jason will chime in, but I know the wheels need turning - several are cupped instead of having the proper tapered tread profile.  In addition, they need a thorough cleaning, scraping, and repainting.  There might be some missing pieces, plus we need to have brake components ready to install as well.

I think the intention is to clean them up as time and funding allows; anyone have some spare money?  Once ready to go, they might serve as the basis to drive us towards designing a replica of Combine #6.

Coach 8 rides pretty well on the freight car trucks; after all, it is based on a freight car underframe and bolster arrangement.

Dave Crow

[Vincent "Lightning" LeRow]

Perhaps before we get into building a new car, we should have everything we've already got in tip top shape.  Like repairing and installing those J&S trucks under coach 8.  I bet she'll ride smoother than a babys bottom with those underneath her!

[Eric Bolton]

Perhaps before we get into building a new car, we should have everything we've already got in tip top shape.  Like repairing and installing those J&S trucks under coach 8.  I bet she'll ride smoother than a babys bottom with those underneath her!

Not just that. It will just look right. Passenger cars dont ride on arch bars.

[Pete "Cosmo" Barrington]

Has anyone given thought to "reverse engineering" those trucks to make copies before installing them? It would be easier to do with them out from under a coach than the other way around.

[Stewart "Start" Rhine]

There has been discussion about saving the J&S trucks to place under a new passenger car when one is built.  If the museum built a new car like the Taconet or a replica of coach 2 the trucks would go under that car.  The biggest expense in passenger rolling stock is the trucks, draft gear and brake rigging.  Having a spare set of trucks is a good incentive to build a new car. A new coach 2 would look great running with coach 3 although it wouldn't help with the wheelchair access issue.  Coach 8 is a beautiful car but it's not a historic car.  The J&S trucks would look good and work well under coach 8 but if the they help push us towards the construction of a classic passenger car maybe we should keep them spare.  Pete's option is good in that we would eventually have good passenger trucks under coach 8 and another set for the to be built car.  Of course this is years in the future... we need a good car storage building for any new rolling stock and much money to fund the project.  That won't happen unless we can find a corporate sponsor or benefactor.   

[Pete "Cosmo" Barrington]

Bob Troup and his crew up in Philips "reverse engineered" a batch of freight car trucks. I'm pretty sure those guys would need passenger trucks also. It might be worth discussing the idea of combining forces to produce the necessary parts/patterns/castings to ease the cost of ordering whatever parts would need to be made/cast comercialy.
They may even be able to help us out with  freight car truck parts.
Either way, it's worth talking to them.

[Stephen Hussar]

There are J & S-looking patterns in the shop over at Boothbay...not sure which car they were created for. Jason?

[Vincent "Lightning" LeRow]

perhaps we could get two or three pairs of J&S trucks made.  That way we have enough for any future passenger stock we may build and a spare set such that a car isn't out of service for truck repairs.  Just switch out a set and fix the spares.  I'm sure multiples will decrease the cost per unit.

[Wayne Laepple]

I doubt we'd put enough mileage on a new set of trucks in any of our lifetimes for there to be need for major repairs.

But if you want multiple pairs of trucks, we can build 'em. Send money.

[Wayne Laepple]

If I'm not mistaken, several of the MNG coaches ride on freight car trucks. The J&S trucks provide a much better ride. The more pairs of J&S passenger car trucks built at a time, the lower the unit price.

[Pete "Cosmo" Barrington]

If I'm not mistaken, several of the MNG coaches ride on freight car trucks. The J&S trucks provide a much better ride. The more pairs of J&S passenger car trucks built at a time, the lower the unit price.

And I think that's what both Matt and I are ultimately getting at. There IS a demand for them to be made in large enugh numbers to be worthwhile!
So THIS is one project I can see going off jointly and benefitting many. 

[Jon Chase]

Cosmo, in economics there's a difference between ascertaining an actual demand for something, and believing that there should be a demand.  Unfortunately, I suspect that MNG currently has more pressing financial needs than building replica trucks for cars that don't go anywhere. 

There's been a bit of a tendancy in some of these discussions to refer in general to equalized passenger car trucks with primary and secondary suspensions as "J&S trucks."  However, only a few Maine 2' Jackson & Sharp passenger cars exist today without correct trucks; fortunately W&Q #3 is not one of these.  As I recall, the MNG collection includes two Jackson & Sharp cars - the Rangeley, which still has its right trucks, and the SR&RL combine with the odd rebuilt arched roof, which does not.  I believe what's left, post-Edaville "preservation," of the former B&SR baggage car now at Boothbay was built by J&S and, when seen last fall, was riding on freight car trucks.  The one remaining original coach still at Edaville was built by Jackson & Sharp's successor American Car & Foundry and ran on original trucks until fairly recently; presumably they still exist.

The remaining Maine 2' passenger cars that have lost their original trucks were built either by Laconia (two at Phillips, one at Boothbay) or Billmeyer & Small (two at Portland, one at Phillips).  These would have had Laconia trucks or Billmeyer & Small trucks, respectively.  One of the Laconia coaches at Phillips has inherited a pair of passenger trucks from the Laconia-built B&SR coach that ran at Edaville as the "Elthea" before being burned down to the frame.  I am unaware that Jackson & Sharp supplied "J&S trucks" to any other builders of 2' passenger cars.   Thus, the maximum potential joint demand from other organizations for J&S trucks appears to be two pairs.  Unfortunately, since these are the only correct trucks for any future replica WW&F coaches, it looks like the museum will be more or less on its own, although there's already the one spare pair in stock thanks to Allen Fisher. Whether it's "worthwhile" to make any more is really not a question of economics.  But I'll bet if you can find someone willing to supply the money, it would happen sooner than later...