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B&SR Socony Tank has been converted from the pre-July 2008 WW&F Discussion Forum.
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Allan Fisher wrote:The Museum is now the owner of the larger (of two) B&SR Socony Tank.
Delivered to the museum Thursday, Richard Verney was able to unload it next to track 7 easier than the hired crane at Portland could load it.
The tank will be made usable over the winter and spring, and maybe next year, if we get some grant money, we will build the replica B&SR 14, 21 or 22 to go under it for use in Fire Train Service
For those purists, the B&SR tanks were originally painted BLACK.
Glenn Christensen replied:The Museum is now the owner of the larger (of two) B&SR Socony Tank.
That's GREAT news Allan! Thanks to the folks at MNG for being willing to ensure the tank's future and thanks and congratulations to you guys for doing the same!
Sincerely,
Glenn
Dave Buczkowski replied:Allan;
Christmas in September is always good news. How did this all come about? Did we purchase it? Inquiring minds want to know. Now we have a good, historic reason to apply for a grant.
Dave
Stephen Hussar replied:Marcel took this picture yesterday...thanks Marcel!
Mike Fox replied:Ira had told me he went down and negotiated for it. It is all ours. Bought and paid for to do with what we want. It will give Stewart something else to paint next time he is up.
Mike
John McNamara replied:Marcel's picture is a great picture, but it leaves out some important details, namely the tears and rusted areas that are on the side toward the patked cars. It is a wonderful historic piece, but it will require a lot of work before is can be used.
Bruce Wilson replied:In Marcel's photo, some patches appear evident. Am I correct that rivited patches are shown in roughly the eleven o'clock and twelve o'clock positions?
Is the thought to repair the damaged areas (as described by John) with rivited patches also?
Hats off to those involved in saving this great piece!
ekmissal replied:Marcel's picture is a great picture, but it leaves out some important details, namely the tears and rusted areas that are on the side toward the patked cars.
If you look, in the upper left corner, you can see 2 old tears that have been previously repaired. We'll just have to do some more.
This is a great chance to restore another piece of rare ME 2 foot equipment.
Mike Fox replied:I'll have to dig into the B&SR books. Those patches might have been put on by the railroad. And I can imagine after siting on the ground for a period of time, the metal would be soft enough to puncture easily.
Mike
James Patten replied:On the N end of the tank, riveted patches to the underside are quite evident. Looks like one patch over another, actually.
Mike Fox replied:Ok. Done with My research.The cars were originally a light color, possibly gray or white with Black letters. Not the other way around. See Two Feet to the Lakes, page 69. This photo was taken around 1900. Also in Peter S. Barney's book, Bridgton and Saco River freight cars, page 77 shows an excellent picture taken in 1920 of this car.Page 78 has another view a few years later.
Also on Page 78, the Patches on the south end show up. They were on the B end of the car which would have been the south end on the B&SR. The cars were never turnd so if the tank was installed on a car the way it is pointed, it would be the same orientation as was on the B&SR.
And in Marcels photo, the cable that is sticking out from the dome is actually a strap that was used to hook it to the flatcar it was on.
Mike
Ted Miles replied:I have seen this item both at Edaville and at Maine Narrow Gague Museum.
I would like to know what happened to the frame and trucks? Did they keep them in Portland?
The second tank car is at Portland and was freshly painted about 2000.
Ted Miles
Ira Schreiber replied:I did not negotiate for the tank car, as that was done by others. I merely "applied some grease to the skids" to get the process moving quickly.
Jason was the point person on this and to him should go the kudos.
The car at MNGM is NOT #14 but rather a replica, however, the tank on it is the original.
Dave Buczkowski replied:In looking at the tank again I wonder whether the WW&F Marine Division might be interested in using it for underwater exploration along the Sheepscot River.
Dave
Mike Fox replied:Ted, I am sure over time the car that was under it just rotted away to the point where it was unusable. Perhaps the trucks and truss rods were used in one of Edavilles fine creations.
Dave, I'll stay behind and make sure the lid is closed tightly for you.
Mike
Stephen Hussar replied:the WW&F Marine Division might be interested in using it for underwater exploration along the Sheepscot River. Dave
Dave, Ira actually took it out for a spin last weekend, much to the surprise of one of the local fishing charters! 
Jason M Lamontagne replied:Hi all,
I'm glad to see the enthusiasm for the tank. It took a fair amount of discussion, and honing of details over a long period of time with MNG to make it happen. Thanks to Ira for a couple well timed visits to help the process along as I worked with MNG's Sue Davis over the phone. We're grateful to them for allowing the deal to happen- everyone involved just wanted to see a piece of history preserved.
The tank does require repair- to sum it up the bottom quarter needs replacement. I have a rough repair plan worked up which would involve cutting out each course one at a time, leaving the riveted seams in place for structure and for their looks, and welding in flush patches to each course. As I say this is a rough plan- I was trying to think of a riveted repair; while possible a welded repair brings this project into tangible reality. Other thoughts arfe welcome.
Allan mentioned a one year time frame- if this works it'd be great- particularly with grant money (from a new source) so we're not draining from current resources which are needed for higher priorities. While I obviously want to see it happen, I don't want it to be a stress or bump other activities- if the tank needs to sit for a while, so be it.
If we don't get to it right off- it seems plausible to plunk it on an existing flatcar for a photo op sometime next year- of course it'd have to come right off again.
see ya
Jason
Joe Fox replied:I was wondering, when I read that the car had been purchased for use as a fire car, if it would be used the way Cumbres & Toltec use some of their tank cars. Have two nozzles, one on each side, that spray water onto the ground, beside the track. I saw this on YouTube, and I thought it was a good idea. Here is the link to the video,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlgeqFODME8
You see the tank car, spraying the water, at video time 00:46. So I was wondering, is that the idea that was in mind for the tank car? If not, is it an idea to at least think about?
Joe
tomc replied:Joe,
Spraying water on the ROW is helping weeds grow and makes a bigger fire hazard. A pump and hose setup is a better fire fighting scenereo. I believe the C&TS doesn't do this anymore.
Tom C.
_________________
Later;
tom_srclry_com
Bruce Wilson replied:I can remember seeing the old Bridgton "Socony" tank within the Edaville junkyard for many years. The junkyard was an area down by the grade crossing at Edaville Avenue, near Eastman's Flume. Things that went there were primarily just there for storage, with eventual re-use a possibility. Luckily, the tank was saved. Again, a great job to all involved in bringing it up to Sheepscot. Count me as one interested in donating to its' restoration.
Stephen Hussar replied:A view of the underside. Thanks, Marcel.
Mike Fox replied:I looked this over Saturday and it appears in decent shape. I am afraid though that when Jason starts to repair the bottom of the tank, the metal may be found to be thin in more places. This being from being upright with no cover over the opening to the interior so moisture got into the inside. But we can cross that bridge when we get there. Just a little more patching is all.
The pipe sticking out of the bottom actually apears to be a valve. Inside the lid there is a ratchet handle that is on a threaded rod that goes into this pipe to open and close the valve. Of course it is frozen stiff with rust.
Mike
John McNamara replied:Ok. Done with My research.The cars were originally a light color, possibly gray or white with Black letters. Not the other way around. See Two Feet to the Lakes, page 69. This photo was taken around 1900. Also in Peter S. Barney's book, Bridgton and Saco River freight cars, page 77 shows an excellent picture taken in 1920 of this car.Page 78 has another view a few years later. Mike
Now I'm getting confused. On page 234 of Two Feet to the Lakes there is a picture that almost looks "as delivered", as the "Standard Oil Company of New York" lettering is very clear. In this picture the tanks certainly seem to be the light color that Mike mentions. However, on page 235 it says that the tanks were painted aluminum, although at one time had black bodies with white lettering and white ends with black lettering. In Peter Barney's The Bridgton and Saco River (not his freight car book), it says that around 1922 they were black with white lettering "SOCONY" (no mention of the ends) and by the late 20s silver with black lettering.
Can anyone add to, subtract from, or clarify all this?
Thanks!
-John
James Patten replied:Not only could this be used for firefighting, but maybe we can use the tank for weed spraying as well. Rig up a spray device that extends beyond the end of the ties which can be tied into the bottom valve, and let it gravity feed.
Wayne Laepple replied:I don't think so, James. I can think of at least two reasons why the B&SR tank car would not be suitable for weed spray: 1.) most products today require a licensed applicator for large quantities, and 2.) the product would tend to contaminate the water used for fire protetction because the products are often petroleum based. In addition, the mixture must be constantly agitated, and I don't think sloshing around counts.
James Patten replied:I didn't realize weed killer was petroleum based. That would tend to cause some excitement for the first fire that got attacked after weed spraying!
Mike Fox replied:I was thinking of making a spraybar for the current firecar to do as James mentioned. But it would take a lot of Round up to fill even that 60 gallon tank.
And John, I am hoping we go with as built. They very well could have painted the car black with white ends and set the aluminum colored tank on it. I was thinking the car frame was the same color as the boxcars.
Mike
Mike Fox replied:I need to make a correction. I have read this tank may have been black to start out in 1904. Painted Aluminum in 1920 when Tank 22 was put into service. I have not found a picture showing this yet but hopefully before the paint brushes come out, we decide what historic color we would like to paint it. I am all for the SOCONY, but what color. Aluminum , black or even gray. Wish color film was around in 1910.
Mike
Stewart Rhine replied:Mike, I think we should paint the tank aluminum with black letters. Looking through the available B&SR photos - it seems to be the most appropriate color. As you know there are a number of color slides and movies of the B&HR in the 1938-41 era. These may help identify colors in the latter years of service. As to the car body, it sounds like we will use WW&F lettering and assign our own number so the "flat" will be painted like the 118. I will donate paint for the tank to help move the project forward once we get to that point.
James Patten replied:Instead of SOCONY (Std Oil Company of New York) we should letter it SHOCOA (Std Water [H2O] Company of Alna). Only jesting of course.
As for color, I know I remember from the books seeing it light background with dark lettering. But we have a long way to go before we have to worry about color.
Stewart Rhine replied:There are photos and drawings of the tank cars in a couple of the books I have. Pages 234 and 235 of Two Feet to the Lakes have some good photos. One shows the cars with new paint and lettering from the early 1920's. The tank color is aluminum (or light gray) and has black lettering. The same photo appears in Peter Barney's B&SR Freight Car book on page 77. The wooden frame at the tank base is painted to match the tank. It makes a nice looking car.
Also in Barney's book are shots of one of the tank cars with a weed sprayer. It looks good but as Wayne noted, large applications of weed killer cannot be applied without permits and a certified crew. This is especially true around streams and rivers.
Josh Botting replied:I suspect the BEP would frown on the spray of herbacide along the ROW, also that would make our erosion problems which would definatly be in violation of the BEP or DEP standards.
James Patten replied:I wasn't thinking of spraying the entire 66' wide ROW, just the track and probably out to the edge of the stone.
To keep the rest of the ROW under control we need one of those chain swinging rail-mounted machines somebody posted a few weeks back.
Stewart Rhine replied:James, Railroads usually just spray the track and go out about 2-3 on either side. I don't think we can use the tank car for herbacide. As Wayne and Josh said, there are many issues with large applications of it. I was only noting that there are photos of the car at Edaville with the spray rack. It's just part of the cars history.
Bruce Wilson replied:As I write this, I am without benefit of any reference materials. Therefore, I'm just going on my recollections (and could very well be wrong), but I do not remember seeing our Socony tank ever in service at Edaville, nor with weed spraying apparatus. The smaller of the two tankers was used by Edaville for spraying, and I believe initially used as a water tender for engine 7 at Edaville in 1947.
I remember seeing our tank laying in the Edaville junkyard at least as far back as the early 1970's, possibly even the late 60's. Its' use at Edaville is a mystery to me.
Stewart Rhine replied:Bruce, You may be right - The photo shows a close view of the end of a tank car with the sprayer. It may be the smaller tank. I'll have to go back and check the photos again. The Barney books are a good quick reference for questions like this.
Bruce Wilson replied:Agreed, Peter Barney's book on the Bridgton freight cars would be the first one I'd pick up to research how the larger of the two tanks was used.
He's done a nice job in documenting the various cars through his photos and text. It couldn't have been an easy job considering all of the changes these cars went through.
Dave Olszewski replied:Mike, I think we should paint the tank aluminum with black letters. Looking through the available B&SR photos - it seems to be the most appropriate color. As you know there are a number of color slides and movies of the B&HR in the 1938-41 era. These may help identify colors in the latter years of service. As to the car body, it sounds like we will use WW&F lettering and assign our own number so the "flat" will be painted like the 118. I will donate paint for the tank to help move the project forward once we get to that point.
It need primer first. If you don't paint primer on it then paint may peel off. Today I painted primer on water tank doors, indoor fuel shed door and pump shed. Then I will paint green on them. Also #103 opened coach car need paint. It looks awful inside. It was ashamed that no body paint it. 
Dave
Dave
Bruce Wilson replied:Yesterday I had a chance to look at the tank closely, studying some of the details. There is an interesting pair of patches on the north end of the tank. One patch overlaps another, almost a lap seam. The rivit work securing the patches was carefully done.
The top of the tank dome is an interesting casting in itself. It may have been made before the tank was assembled as a unit. The makers mark is as follows, Harrisburg Foundry & Machine Co. Makers, Harrisburg, PA 1873.
If you look at the raised script on this casting, you will notice that two letters are lost due to the presence of internal (inside the dome) threaded studs. The base of the studs have obliterated one "r" in Harrisburg and the "o" in Foundry.
She's a beauty...
Mike Fox replied:Bruce, I too notice the patches but could not find them in any original photos. The patches on the south end are visible in photos of when it was in operation. I suspect it may have come to the B&SR that way because the got it used. Perhaps due to a derailment when it was originally a standard gauge Tank car.
Mike
Steve Klare replied:You don't think maybe Exxon-Mobil would gripe SOCONY appearing on the tank car, right? It is one of the companies they were formed from.
I'm not a very informed B&SR guy (more to my shame as Maine Two-Foot freak). Can anybody give a little history of why these cars were built and how they were used?
It's kind of surprising that they were the only two-foot tank cars. It's not hard to imagine them being pretty useful. Didn't anybody in two foot country ever need a couple of thousand gallons of anything liquid?
Mike Fox replied:Steve, I'll give you what I know off the top of my head. Anyone can add or correct me.
The Tank we acquired was built originally as a tank car, Standard gauge. In 1904, it was placed onto a flat car and put in service hauling heating oil from Bridgton Junction to Bridgton. I think I read that Standard Oil company of New York bought the tank and the railroad put it on the car. Perhaps over time the tank became property of the railroad. The car was loaded and I think unloaded in the same fashion that a lot of things were handled back then, by hand. There was a hand pump and it took about an hour to fill or empty the tank.
Around 1920, a second and smaller tank car was commisioned. Oil business must have been good. Sometime soon after, the original car under the larger tank wore out and was replaced with another. So the car kind of wound up with 2 numbers. 14/21 or was it 22. Darn memory.
Now, it is my belief that the patches thjat are on the tank were put on prior to the arrival at B&SR. Possibly from a derailment on a standard gauge line someplace. I know those cars never tipped over on the Bridgton line.
Mike
James Patten replied:If Exxon-Mobil decides to gripe about SOCONY, they can start with MNGRR, who has the other tank and that's what's painted on it. If they give them a hard time, then we'll paint something else on the tank.
It doesn't really surprise me that no other 2-foot gauge railroad had a tank car. Most of the others went to really rural areas.
Wayne Laepple replied:I'm sort of surprised the B&SR was hauling heating oil. I would have expected gasoline. The Newport & Sherman's Valley RR down here in Pennsylvania had a pair of 3-foot gauge tank cars they used to haul gasoline and kerosene. The cars were loaded by gravity. The standard gauge tank car was placed on an elevated track for that purpose. I'm not certain, but I believe they were unloaded the same way. They were in service up until the final train ran in 1939. The East Broad Top Railroad also had a tank car for hauling gasoline. It's similar to the B&SR car, in that it's a standard gauge tank on a narrow gauge flatcar. It was built in 1936 and was a 6,000 gallon tank.
Steve Klare replied:Maybe you could paint SONOMA on it and fill it with cheap wine!
I'm still kind of surprised that nobody in Strong, Phillips, the sawmills at Redington, Rangeley (those big hotels), Kingfield, the soldiers home at Togus or the slate mines at Monson Village needed bulk kerosene, heating oil or gasoline, but I guess if they had there would have been a lot more of them.
I wonder if the "tank cars" on the other lines were sometimes boxcars full of barrels and steel drums...
It's 1905 and a tank car full of kerosene shows up in Farmington on the Maine Central, and they need it to light the lamps up at the Rangeley Lake House...
Now what?
dwight winkley replied:Read in a book that the two tank cars could carry the load of one standard gage car. So they always operated together.
dwight
DaleR replied:jason's comment about using new, not current, grant money to repair the tank made me think that mobil may give us some money for it. i believe they value their history. if anyone on this list knows a local mobil dealer that may be the best place to start. a call or visit to the big distributor in damariscotta might work too, they have a double name i cant recall. dale reynolds, pendleton sc
Mike Fox replied:Nice Idea Dale. Maybe if someone researched it a little. Got it to Corporate when we are ready to start on it, It might work in our favor.
Mike
James Patten replied:The Mobil company in Damariscotta may be Colby & Gale. I drive by their gas station in town all the time, but of course I can't remember what the sign says.
elecuyer replied:I was thinking the same thing regarding funding, myself. Maybe Exxon/Mobil gives grants? I'll do some Googling and see what I come up with.
-Ed Lecuyer
elecuyer replied:Looks like ExxonMobil does do some grants, etc. I sent them an email looking for more information, contacts, forms, etc. - since it appears that those items aren't available without asking, first.
DaleR replied:thanks james, that was it. was hoping someone knows mr. colby or mr. gale and could explain our needs and get them to come up with some help. or obviously another mobil dealer on the wwandf route. as a retiree from exxon i am familiar with many of their grants, they have provided about $10,000 to us so far via matching money and paying for my work at the museum. however, all of this has to be for education, not fixing up historic mobil stuff. so that's why i suggested going thru a dealer. dale
Dave Wilson replied:Hi Guys. Just some general thoughts on the tank car before the painting begins. I think the exterior skin repairs should be made with flush patches if possible. While riveted patches might be the way the B&SR or even the WW&F would have repaired the tank, we as a museum group should not be looking to add our own visible imprint. For this reason I believe the repairs should be as invisible as possible. If the bottom of the tank is found to be too thin (I believe this came up some where in the discussion) for structural repair without replacing hugh amounts of steel, perhaps some sort of liner could be fitted inside that would allow functional use, but would maintain the exterior appearance. What ever is finally decided upon, I'm sure most people will agree that our repairs shouldn't alter the exterior profile of a historic piece.
Dave Wilson
Mike Fox replied:Dave,
I think the talk is now when repairs are made, they will be welded and in such a way as not to disturb the rivets or original patches unless necessary. The weld could then be ground flush when done and paint would cover them well.
As for the inside, perhaps a coat of epoxy like what was done to the water tower tank might be a good idea to preserve the tank further. This is still in the planning stages of repair so it could be a while ( a year or more) before enough time before things actually start happening.
Mike
