Current end of track?

[Mike Fox]

UP wasn't the only one who did that. I think all of the two footers here in Maine had a wooden trestle they filled in with dirt, without removing the wood. Hancock Brook arch bridge on the B&SR was originally a wooden trestle. Dickey Trestle on the SR&RL, same thing. And some of the trestle in Wiscasset was filled in over time.
  In our case, the first thing that needs to be done is get an excavator in the hole and find the bottom. Someplace solid to start rebuilding on. Wheather we use the boxes Stewart is talking about or just plain Maine Boulders is hard to say. Lately I have seen what we call blast rock used in such areas. These rocks can be 5 or 6 feet across and weigh several thousand pounds a piece. Blasted from ledge usually. Maybe Crooker and Sons up the road has some in their quarry.

[Vincent "Lightning" LeRow]

This is the best image I have, still very hard to get a sense of things. Obviously everyone is standing at the edge -- approximately in the middle of the ROW.

Ok, i thought the slide covered the ROW, not came out from underneath it.

well, that's a different kind of meatball.  i can tell abaout how to deal with it, but for now,  i would think the marines construction unit need an excersise.  This could be made verry realistic to the field for them.  ...hevy rains washed out a supply line.  repair the damage so that...ect...ect...

[Vincent "Lightning" LeRow]

Alright I said I wouldn't do this but I cant resist

The blast rock method would work all right here.  once the head of steel gets near this area we could easily put some temp track (mayby instead of 'bog track' lay 1 tie in four with 40#) down for acess and do most of the work ourselves.  A few ancors into the hilside combined with two 20ft. by 16in. logs and some 3 over 3 pullys and you could have an on site crane like what the Sawyer river RR used to load thier log bunks. the pullys alone will reduce the load felt to 1/6.  We could also use 4 over 4 and see only 1/8.  Our flatcars can safely hold how many tons?

The blast rock mixed with heavy fill and gravel will make a stable base for the trains to run on.  No matter what it will have to be built as a gravity wall.

[Mike Fox]

This is definately something we don't want to tackle. Placing the rocks would be difficult using a flatcar. The fill could be delivered by flatcar but the rail would be in the way of the excavator to come back out. And not to mention, that's one big hole. Lots of gravel needed there.

[Wayne Laepple]

Mike's right. This project is going to require several terraces from the bottom up from which a Prentice loader with a l grapple can place blast rock or gabion baskets, to be followed by a Gradall placing fill material. Tri-axles will haul in many loads of gravel and dirt to build a new fill. We may also have to place dead-eyes and pilings. In fact, we may have to figure out how to access this project from both ends of the right of way. The original fill failed at least in part because it was not built and compacted, and the weight of the trees and the pressure of weather and water pushed it down. We don't want to that to happen again, even if it does take another hundred years!

[Pete "Cosmo" Barrington]

Ok, I know what pilings are,....
what's a deadeye?

[Wayne Laepple]

Deadeye? Is that what I wrote? Oh man, I must be losing it. I meant deadman, a fixture driven into a hillside or fill to help hold it in place. It's got a thing on the end that opens like an umbrella once it's in place and pressure is applied.

[John Kokas]

Looking at the maps, it appears that if an access route could be constructed on the edge of the cleared property just north of the 1st washout one could access both the washout and the landslide area.  It would make sense to have some type of "haul route" from the landslide to the washout in order to use the spoil from one to act as the fill for the other.  The additional item to consider is to have a run-around at TOM so that it can be used as a supply staging point in the future. 

If we really are looking a several years before we would be in a position to rebuild the trestle, then we have time to work the washout and landslide issues ourselves instead of getting a contractor.  Some equipment rental (yes) but I can already tell we have people in the organization that know a lot about horizontal construction and can handle this situation.  This would really help in reducing costs.

[James Patten]

An access road is being built from 218 to an area about 1000 feet north of TOM.  Although it's at the request of the landowner, it will help us out immensely with fixing up the washout.  There's already a road partway there, so it's not forging a completely new trail, and it will go along the edge of the field.  This is probably the area John Kokas is talking about.

Interesting talk about how to do this.  I'd hate to be the fellow driving the excavator down the hill to start the stabilization work.

[Stewart "Start" Rhine]

Wayne and Mike are right about the construction techniques and source.  Terraced gabions or terraces with deadman anchors are the best way to go.  I suggested gabion baskets because I was involved in the reconstruction of a wash out on a standard gauge line a few years ago.  The work was done with gabions by a licensed contractor.  The insurance carrier required it due to passenger trains using the line.  We should do the same.  Railroad construction has very specific load requirements.  Unlike highways where the load force area is wider (because the load and travel path can vary), railroads have a specific load plane.  The field under the ballast is very important but the shoulders and ditching are the key, especially on a hillside where the fill is new.   

[Wayne Laepple]

I think we are going to have to bite the bullet on this one. The repair of the slide will have to be done by a contractor.  I've looked down that hillside, and it's a long way down to the bottom. I don't know whether we have any members able to operate the kinds of heavy equipment necessary, but I think it's a given that there probably aren't enough volunteers available on a continuous basis to accomplish the work in a timely manner. This isn't a three or four-day weekend job. It will take a couple of months!

As I mentioned in an early post, I believe the state Department of Conservation/Environment is going to be keeping an eye on this project, and they could well require us to use a qualified contractor. I think it's going to be a two-year project anyway, before get to the point of building track.

And as Stewart noted, the fact remains that a new fill must be built on a steep hillside and making sure it stays put is the key to this project.   

[Josh Botting]

Mike,

Can't you make several loads of rip rap appear in the slide???

[Mike Fox]

Josh, it would be nice if it was that easy. A lot of the little perks we used to get like that have been removed.
  As for the slide repair, it is definately something a contractor would have to do. I can run all kinds of equipment but like Wayne said, it's more than a one day job. So then you run into the multiple delivery charges of the excavator or what ever piece you would need.
  Also, a contractor could deliver the material to the site as needed. You won't find too many people willing to deliver the material as we need it, on a Saturday or Sunday.

[Ira Schreiber]

Time to call out the troops?
IIRC, the Maine National Guard(Reserves?)unit in Augusta is a construction unit.
This would be an excellent training project and the cost to the State would be minimal. They could go home every night! This could be a win-win for all parties.

I know this was discussed several years ago but this may be the time to rethink the subject.

[John Kokas]

Calling out the troops is "a process".  First, is there any members whom are ArNG (Army National Guard) members also.  They can provide chain of command contacts.  Second, local political support (state level) representatives and senators.  Third, any contacts or associations through either the Governor's office or the Adjutant General's office (head of the Guard).

Since this definitely qualifies as a "training project" for Army combat and construction engineers, Air National Guard (civil engineer squadrons), and Seabees you've got a choice of groups OR a rotational project where many units can train on a project. 

Get the local support, get the Adjutant General interested, file a request with the A.G. and Gov. then let the pol's help push.  Providing items such as fuel, food, and ancillary items will help show our commitment and also creates good will with the troops.

I've done many of these over the years in my military career, most were really fun and the troops love them because they help their local community.