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FRA and the WW&F has been converted from the pre-July 2008 WW&F Discussion Forum.
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ETSRRCo wrote:Hello all from down here in New Jersey. In the last seven months working for the New Hope & Ivyland Railroad I have been able to experience what it is like to deal with things like NORAC and the FRA. There are a lot of rules and a lot of paperwork. My question is what steps are being taken to bring the WW&F into compliance with FRA regulations? I think that it would be best to start now the be caught with our pants down. Will the 9s boiler be FRA compliant with two water glasses and all the other requirements? The reason that I ask this question is because that there is talk of the FRA being given jurisdiction over every public railroad. We don't want what happened to the guys at MNG to happen to us. I am in no way saying that the guys at MNG were at fault for what happened. It just goes to show you that it can happen at any time anywhere.
-Eric
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Eric Bolton
East Tigard & Southern Railroad Co 1889-1958
Joe Fox replied:Hi Eric,
Jason, James, and I have come up with a daily car inspection sheet to go on the back of the conductor report, to partially pre pair us for the car inspection sheets that the museum would fill out in the future. #9's boiler is being made to fit the FRA regulations as best as possible. Things are being updated and some rules have been made to follow along the lines of the FRA regulations.
Joe
John McNamara replied:Eric,
As Joe has indicated, the Chief Mechanical Officer (Jason), the Training Officer (James), members of the Rules Committee (including myself), and others, have been working on gradually introducing FRA-compliant or FRA-like procedures into our operation as time goes along, so as to be in full compliance by the time that is necessary.
Please see the last paragraph of Section 1 (page 6) of the Long Range Plan on the web site.
When are you coming up next?
-John
ETSRRCo replied:I hope to be up again for a weekend in July and again for the fall track meet. I was going to be there this weekend till I found out that my regiments first reenactment of the year was the same dates. I am glad that the museum is taking steps toward this and if any help is needed or you have any questions I would be more then happy to help. Joe, yes I do believe that it would hurt teenager's abilities to volunteer at museums. All train service would be limited to 18 years or older. With our new NJDOT rules being in place at Allaire no one under the age of 18 can be involved in train service. At New Hope you cant even apply for a job till your 18 and around most of the country you are not allowed to be in the cab of a steam locomotive that is under steam if you are under 18. However Joe do not worry. The bill has been talked about for a few years and it doesnt sound like its going to happen soon and the track is still a few years and a big bridge from 218. I think you will be safe for now. By the way how old are you? I really like finding out that I'm not the only teenager who devoted time to a museum. I've been doing it for six years now! Man does time fly.
-Eric
_________________
Eric Bolton
East Tigard & Southern Railroad Co 1889-1958
Allan Fisher replied:Guys - as someone who dealt with the FRA every day at Conrail and is very familiar with 49CFR, your worries are unfounded. As of now, the only railroad crew position that is covered by Regulations is the Locomotive Engineer. The FRA does require a railroad to have Operating Rules and train their employees on these rules, and also do unobserved efficiency tests on the railroad's rules.
And although FRA can come on any railroads property and make suggestions at any time (after Congressional Inquiry or serious accident/incident), they have no jurisdiction on a Tourist Railroad unless it is part of the national freight or passenger rail system or until railroad crosses a public highway at grade.
scrmcurator replied:I'm going to jump in here as well. I agree with Mr. Fisher -- y'all are worrying over very little.
If you read the "applicability" part of 49CFR carefully, you'll find that it's worded very vaguely. An argument can be made that the WW&F is already under FRA jurisdiction because y'all carry passengers. An equally good argument can also be made that crossing a road doesn't make any difference. It's all up to your local inspectors to interperet, and how they interperet the regs depends a lot on how they view your organization.
The key to working with the FRA is to not get cocky or haughty. Show them that you want to work with them, and you'll usually find that they'll let you off as easy as the regs allow.
My advice for when the FRA shows up:
1. Keep your mouth shut. Don't volunteer ANYTHING, but answer all questions honestly and completely.
2. Ask intelligent, pertinent questions about stuff like blue flag protection, hours of service, etc. Show them that you want to understand.
3. If he'll let you, buy the inspector lunch. Grease the wheels all you can!
4. If the inspector finds a defect, admit it's a defect and, if appropriate, ask what you need to do to fix it. Don't argue!
5. Ask about waivers. Inspectors won't volunteer that you can get a waiver for X, but if you ask about it they'll tell you if it's possible or not. If they say no, accept it and move on.
6. Be polite and show the inspector(s) that you're genuinely concerned about safety.
7. Put your best people on the train crew while the inspectors are there.
8. Unofficially designate one or two people to deal with the FRA and try to keep everybody else out from under foot while they're there.
I've been through the process of worrying about when the FRA shows up, having them finally show, and then getting joint operations with Norfolk Southern and REALLY getting it from the FRA. One thing to realize is that "FRA" actually stands for "Forest Reduction Administration" -- the paperwork is unreal. That's where I'd start; get a train order system in place, develop an internal accident & incident form, and start an Hours of Service log book. Keep good records of any work done, particularly any power braking systems. Also, establish a blue flag policy and stick to it religiously.
Joe Fox replied:We all ready have a blue flag pollicy, and it is followed, very closely. If somebody is seen working on, or under a car without a blue flag, they will get spoken to in private, and told politely to make sure that they never do it again. I know, because I was one of those people. No big deal, because after that talk, I am sure to put a blue flag on the car now, every time I work on Journal boxes, and things like that. Well, I shouldn't say it isn't a big deal, because a blue flag is one of the most important flags that most brakemen, or engineers will ever use.
Joe
Jason M Lamontagne replied:Backing up John M's and Allan's comments, we have considered FRA regulation for some time and are gradually working toward it. We have no hesitation in desiring to meet their requirements, and being compliant in itself has never been a reason to hold us back. We have been working for years in implenting rules and procedures to bring us into compliance, a little at a time. Our rulebook requires little modification to comply, we need some additional record keeping such as some inspection reports (we do some already) and hours of service.
These efforts together with some of Allan's FRA connections, we'll have FRA advice before we need it.
Good to think about though!
see ya
jason
ETSRRCo replied:I wasn't really worried about it I just wanted to know if any steps were being taken and I must say I am very pleased with the way the museum has handled themselves again. Keep up the good work guys and I'm sorry if anything I stated was false. One more question I have would they require the train to be equipped with some kind of train brake system or would hand brakes be enough? I have always wondered about that.
-Eric
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Eric Bolton
East Tigard & Southern Railroad Co 1889-1958
Joe Fox replied:I think the FRA would let us run with hand brakes, however, we would still have to do brake tests, just like the other railroads.
Joe
