Plastic Railroad Ties

[Ken Fleming]

Plastic (actually composite) ties should be given some thought when replacing road crossing ties (or new crossings Rt. 218 and/or Cross Road).  They don't rot, don't split or crack, can be use like any other tie and come in lengths up to 32 feet.  Available from mainline to mining sizes.  The big thing is never having to replace them, thus the added cost can be justified.  Below are a couple of sites with composite ties and other building material.  A Google search will produce more info.  Even sold on Amazon.com

http://www.axionintl.com/industries.html

http://integrico.com/

A pdf file discussing development of plastic ties: 

http://www.cif.org/noms/2002/13_-_Recycled_Plastic_Composite_Crossties.pdf

[Glenn Christensen]

FYI - the folks at the ffestiniog used a good number of plastic ties in their recently-completed revamp the the Porthmadog terminal yards.


Best Regards,
Glenn

[Bill Myers]

I'm coming from left field here, but plastic ties are relatively new and the life expectancy is yet to be determined. much like concrete ties, it is such a new technology that we don't know how long they will last , until they don't. But, wood properly ballasted ,with proper drainage, will last at least thirty years, far more longer than I will.

[Ed Lecuyer]

[Moderator's Note]
A tirade of puns ensued, which have been moved to Whimsical, Weirdness & Foolery.   

[Keith Taylor]

I would be opposed to the idea of composite ties. The WW&F is a working museum whose mission is to preserve the technology and ambiance of a bygone era. The methods and materials used during the active years of the W&Q and WW&F should be what is used whenever possible.
I know that the railroads have found that concrete ties don't have the life span they expected. Water can infiltrate the tie if the ballast is not kept scrupulously clean, when the water freezes, spalling occurs and the tie disintegrates.

Keith

[Jason M Lamontagne]

I have to agree with Keith.  We are not here to simply run a railroad in the most efficient, modern manner possible.  We are here to preserve the WW&F as it was.

Jason

[Ed Lecuyer]

Well, if we limited their use to paved road crossings, who's to say that plastic ties wouldn't be authentic? In other words, the original WW&F didn't have any paved crossings to contend with - so we could say that we are, in fact, using them in a historically correct manner.

What would Carson Peck do?

(Ed runs and hides for cover.)

Just kidding.

[Ken Fleming]

The object lesson here was introduce plastic or composite ties and lumber to reduce maintainence, labor and cost for road crossings.  From all photos of installed plastic that I have seen, you can not tell them from wood. 

Check out the Axiom site for their products and photos.

Ed, thanks for moving the junk off of the topic.

[John Kokas]

I have to stick with Ken on this one.  Any public road crossing that is going to put us under the rules of the FRA is going to be, by its very nature, non-prototypical to the WW&F of the early 20th century.  Simply because today's regulations did not exist back then but compliance today will not be optional.

Maintaining crossings, especially under paved surfaces, gets real expensive.  Anything we could do to keep maintenance costs down is a benefit to the museum.  With LED lights, automatic gates, and electronic bell sounds, who in all seriousness is going to criticize the museum for not having "real" wood ties under the crossing area.

[Wayne Laepple]

I agree with John 100%. Some members seem to think the FRA will grant waivers to the WW&F on certain issues if we ever want to cross Route 218, but speaking with friends still active in the railroad business, they tell me the FRA is much more reluctant to grant waivers than they have been in the past. I suspect we can credit that to our litigious nature.

[Keith Taylor]

Yes....but I know of no plans to cross a highway in the near future.
And having been involved in a fatal grade crossing accident while an engineer with Conrail, I would hope that the WW&F will never cross a highway.
Keith

[Jason M Lamontagne]

Hmm- maybe.  The idea does have merits.  If we were Ffestiniog level, retiring the railroad to Albion, I could see such a cheat on the main line in exchange for a broader restoration.  I believe the Welsh Highland used pressed steel ties over most of their line.  For us, having a few miles, I'd stick to historical accuracy but in a paved public crossing, cheating has its merits.  

Not a concern at this point.

See ya
Jason

[Mike Fox]

In our environment, I would be in favor of the use in the grade crossings. Besides, by the time we get there, we will know how well they work out.

[Ken Fleming]

Looking at the pix of the AC crossing plank replacement, that could have been a good chance to use plastic lumber and ties.  We need an officer of the museum to officially write the suppliers about getting some sample materials and a quote for one crossing' s worth to test.  Once dirty the plastic (composite) material looks like the Real thing, wood.

[Wayne Laepple]

It would certainly be worthwhile to test planks at least.