Re-enactment Fund Raiser?

[Brett Goertemoeller]

Hey everyone,
  I just joined the forum here today, and have had an interest in the 2' gauge railroads for many many years.  I put a little bit about myself if the "Who I is" section of the site.  That being said, among the railroad things that I do and have studied and am very interested in the CROTB (Combat Railway Operations & Transportation Battalions) from WWI through WWII.  Being that the WW&F is a great living history museum, I was curiouse to see if there was any interest from anyone in doing some sort of WWI re-enactment or living history events at the railroad.  I have contacts with a group of WW I re-enactors, and I know from experiance that events like that can draw a lot of people.  So here is the question that I would like to pose to the group....

1.  Is there any interest in talking with the museum about doing something like this as a fund raiser?

2.  Are there any members who might be interested in starting a CROTB unit that dresses in WWI unifrom and meets at the railroad a few times a year for training and possible movie and TV work?  (and to do work for the railroad in a full imursion and period environment).
We would have a need for everything from operations to management and cooks.  I have an original roster of people to help us out.

3.  I am mostly interested in the Allied side of things, but if there is an interest in the "Axis" side of things I'm sure that we could talk with Booth Bay and get some time on the German equipment. 

  If this peaks anyones interest I think it could be a great "new thing".  If this has been talked about before, I'm sorry to be bringing it back up.  I looked through the thread as I have read here for many years, but I could not find anything on it.  If there is an interest, please let me know and I can put you in touch with a few places that make our uniforms and information. 

Thanks for your imput,

Brett

[Ed Lecuyer]

I think that would be a fine idea to pursue, since 2' railroads had an active role in WWI - although they weren't the "Maine two-footers".

Are there any trench locomotives/equipment still around, and are they operable? Now, I'm really dreaming, but wouldn't *that* make a great event? Also, a more technical question, if any are operable (putting *all* of the issues that would bring up aside) would they be able to handle the slight difference between 600mm and 2ft track?

[Brett Goertemoeller]

Ed,
  There are a few engines that are still operating in Europe, but none that I know of here in the states.  I know of one that is in the possetion of the Infantry Museum at Ft Benning since that was one of the posts that had an extensive 2' gauge system.  Other than that I am at a loss for locomotives.  In terms of the rolling stock, you can use almost anything because they used any and every piece of freight equipment they could get their hands on.  There are videos on You Tube of this (i will try and link later on).
  One thing to remember is that even though the equipment wasn't "Maine 2 foot" these units were staffed and sponsered by railroad companies.  So even though I don't have any paperwork off hand to quote and prove it, it's not that far off to say that some of the 2 foot guys wouldn't have taken a sponsorship.  I do know that the MEC and B&M sent sponsor companies....so they may have included two foot guys.  In terms of the "gauge" issue, I have looked into that before.  Equipment that is made as 600mm can run on 2' gauge track.  If you do the math the conversion comes out to 600mm= 23.4in.  Where you have an issue is trying to run true 2' gauge equipment on 600mm track.  However, since the vast majority of equipment avaiable to us is already of the 2' gauge, and everything that was brought back here was converted, there should be no issues with running a "military" trainset on any of the 2' gauge railroads.  The biggest hurdle would be letting us paint equipmet in USATC collors, and get the logistics of that many personell figured out. 
  For engine information, the Americans used Baldwin and Alco 2-6-2T locomotives.  The one at Benning is a Baldwin I believe.  And #51 looks alot like the mechanicals that they used.  Add the shrowding for the cab and you almost have a picture perfect repop....

Brett

[Wayne Laepple]

This is an interesting concept that could bring a real boost to the WW&F. The Maryland & Pennsylvania Preservation Society at Muddy Creek Forks, Pa. holds an annual World War I encampment at their village, and I understand it is quite popular. I can imagine a similar encampment at Alna Center, served only by the WW&F train. It would certainly be a unique event and could draw World War I re-enactors from all over New England and beyond. What it will take is someone in Maine to take the lead to organize and publicize such an event. Personally, I'd much rather see a World War I encampment than a Civil War event, and that is not a knock on Civil War re-enactors!

[James Patten]

I think it would certainly be interesting to further explore this idea.  Certainly we'd need more information before making any kind of decision.  Re-enactments have been discussed in the past but for the Civil War, which being from before the WW&F started was not a popular idea.  It will probably be a number of years before this comes to fruition, but we'd need to have our restrooms online before doing it.

[Ira Schreiber]

I just visited Wales and Boston Lodge has a Baldwin gas-mechanical from WWI. It is much modified with a pilot truck and a 30+ h.p. diesel motor but it still looks like a Baldwin.
I believe there were three U.S. builders of the trench steamers, Vulcan being the third.

[Brett Goertemoeller]

Here are the videos that I promised.  1st is at FT Benning tringin new crews to run the 2' eqipment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BTtncKnS9k&list=FLsgFYRI0pBZvWwE_9Cczc8g&index=4

And the best for last....operations on the western front WWI with the American CROTB compaines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxbVYUxkiUc

  So delving a little more into the idea, is anyone interested in the "dress up"part of it?  I have the contacts with the WWI units of the Great War Association, so I've got the reenactor part covered.  There is a lot of good PR to be made with things like this.  And I do agree that a WWI event and unit based at the museum would be a "time period" correct for the railroad. 

Hope everyone enjoys the video.  Where would people sugest that we propose to put the camps and such.  The bathroom concern shouldn't be a problem.  Most major reenactments that I go to have "blue Lagoons" (aka porta poopers).  Not many sites have a location with ready access to indoor plumbing.  What kind of information would you be needing James?  I would rather hash it out here before going to the board with it.  And get an idea about how many WW&F members would be interested in the reenacting part. 

[Stewart "Start" Rhine]

Hi Brett,

     Welcome to the forum.  Interesting topic.  I have been to the WWI day that Wayne mentioned on the M&P RR in Pennsylvania.  The event was nicely done and well attended, there was even a scout group that came out.  The soldiers were great at explaining what they were doing and what equipment they had.  A WWI day at the WW&F would probably be popular if we get the word out.  BTW - The Maine two-footers had a small roll in the war effort with the transport of troops from various towns to the Maine Central so they could ship out.  

     The Museum's Board would have to approve the event.  I'd like to see it happen.  I have an interest in WWI because my grandfather was a War Correspondent and spent time in France.  I have some of his paperwork and a stack of photos, mostly war scenes.  These include Secretary of War, Baker greeting the troops with General Pershing.  General Pershing addressing the troops from a platform at Beaune, France.  General Pershing with Col. Reeves.  The troops and band passing in review, Headquarters Cote D'or France.    And people from a special train making a presentation to Gen'l Pershing.  There are other views like the telephone and telegraph division office of the Chief Signal Officer A.E.F Headquarters in 1918, and battlefield scenes with some views of two foot gauge trains hauling supplies.  

Stewart

[Brett Goertemoeller]

I would love to see some of the pictures sometime!  That must be awsome.  Hope that everyone liked the videos I put up. 

[Mike Fox]

This could be interesting. We would have to sheath things to make them look appropriate, but it wouldn't be too hard. Even just a small re-enactment with a half dozen guys would work. We have plenty of guys that can act. Camera hams.

[Allan Fisher]

I hope everyone knows that long-time member Richard Moody and his wife go all over New England doing the Civil War reenactments. He asked whether we at the WW&F would want an"encampment" seven or eight years ago - and we said no - Civil War was way before the WW&F.

[Ed Lecuyer]

Thanks Allan for passing that along.

If this event goes past the "banter on the forum" stage, we should ask Richard for his expertise in setting this up - even if it is not his era. I would hope he could somehow participate too, maybe as an old Civil War vet/hero who is there to lend morale to the troops. For example, asking Richard to play a retired Joshua Chamberlain would be ideal, except that he died just before the onset of WWI.

Also, Maine Narrow Gauge recently did a Civil War event. We should find out how it did and what lessons they've learned.

[Brett Goertemoeller]

  I would caution that the time periods are VERY different, although having someone who has event experiance is good.  For example, at WWI events, there are not as many of the logistical nightmares that you have at "war of northern agression" events.  I spent the better part of 20 years as a civ war guy.  You will not have to worry about numbers of (on ground) participants being as great, but you will have to concider where to stage and care for aircraft if you go with a GWA event (there are units that just do the air combat operations).  I am on the the GWA yahoo group and can pitch the idea to unit commanders if we get to that stage.  I also have the manuals for how the railroad should operate during an event like this.

The next discussion is location location location.  Where would you have the "battle" take place?  How would you get participants from parking areas to where the camps are?  Can you get the permission from land owners for people to camp in two different locations?  Do you have personell "on duty" from the railroad for the entire event or do you get the "railroad unit" to do it to be more authentic?  What do you charge the reenactors for a registration fee to cover costs for the railroad, and still make money that the railroad needs?  These are things that I have had to deal with when planning an event in the past.   

The key for WWI guys is authenticity.  They take that to heart.  So all of that being said, since there seems to be a lot of interest in this, I would ask that people interested in the "uniformed" operations aspect please let me know.  That way Ed and I can try to put together a list of everyone that would like to be a part of the "railroad unit".  Events like this take a few years to plan well, and believe me you want it planned well.  If it is a good event not only for the public, but for the reenactors, they will spend a lot of money to come and help you out.  It is almsot more important to make the experiance better for the participants than for the public.   

[James Patten]

It's too bad the WW&F wasn't around for WWII - there's some WWII-era planes at the Wiscasset airport that could take part in something like that.  But back to the WWI discussion.

That western front video was very interesting.  The equipment looked more Maine two-footer full-sized than most anything I've seen outside of Maine (for 2 foot).  I would think this would work well for us.  There is a field at Alna Center station we could use for this, assuming abutters are OK with it.

[Brett Goertemoeller]

The reason it looks som much like "full size Maine 2-footer" is because most of the USATC drawings were based on the Maine equipment.  Glad you enjoyed the western front footage.  I think it would work very well for the museum as well.  Can you imagine the press and publicity having uniformed reenactors running the railroad?!  That would be cool.  There were some questions before on the state of the Bladwin at Benning.  I have a friend who is stationed there with the Band.  He is going to go get us some info on it when he gets off duty today.  As soon as I have any info on it's status I will let you know.  I have a feeling that it is in BAD shape as it's been outside since the railroad was torn out. 

Other than that, equipment is not going to be a hard thing to come by (other than locomotives).  The uniforms are not too bad either for people that would want to be part of the CROTB as well.  The best part of the whole thing is that we get to be a one of a kind unit at a one of a kind museum.  There is no one else at the moment doing any of the CROTBs from either WWI or WWII.