B&SR 7

[Matthew Gustafson]

How is the work going on #7. Its been awhile since we heard an update.

[Stewart "Start" Rhine]

I think the tender is mostly done, not sure about the boiler.  True, there hasn't been much chatter about #7 lately.  Probably because everyone is busy keeping the regular locomotives in service this Summer and have not had time to work on the engine.  Someone on the NMG steam crew may add a bit more. 

B&SR #7's rebuild may be on the back burner but it's not forgotten.  Just look at this thread, it's the most read item on the forum with over 21,000 hits.

Stewart

[Rick Knight]

To Answer Matthew Gustafson's question of August 31, 2012. NOTHING.

A whole years worth of work has been lost on #7. To my knowledge, no recent work has been done whatsoever on #7 at the MNG. As far as I know there has been no progress on the boiler.

To all the good folks that donated to the restricted fund for #7 I say thank you and apologize for the work stoppage. There was no doubt in my mind # 7 would have been completed and running by the end of 2013. We were working well within our budget at the time, but also realized further fund raising may be necessary to finish the job primarily due to the boiler work.

Unfortunately, I can not say here what has transpired. The things that the WW&F seems to do so well, attracted volunteers, raise funding, focus on restoration, preservation appears to be temporarily absent at the MNG. In the meanwhile, I suggest that anyone considering volunteering and or donating money seriously consider the WW&F, Boothbay Railway Village, or the SR&RL group in Phillips.

For those that have donated money to the RESTRICTED fund for #7 I would certainly would want to know what has been raised, what has been spent, and what remains of the funds.

If you want to question what I have said feel free. I was a volunteer at the old Edaville, mentored by Fred Richardson at Edaville. Learned to run on #7, MNG volunteer from day one, Steam ops manager, CMO, and former board member. I have been self employed for most of my working life in the automotive machinist/restoration business.

Thanks, Rick.

[Ed Delory]

It's a shame that not a thing has been done on #7 for a year and I wish the people we put in charge would be more willing to share information with the members that can't be there. I guess the frist question is why?

[Brett Goertemoeller]

When Rick Knight throws in the towel, and puts up a post like that, I put that right in the catigory of things that make you go Hmmmmm.  Sad to know that things are going down hill so much there.  I hope that they turn around for the sake of the collection. 

[Mike Fox]

They had come so far on it too. Hopefully they will continue. I know there have been a lot of other priorities this year and a shortage of volunteers.

[Jason M Lamontagne]

I'm actually not particularly involved in this project anymore.  Can't really provide any insight as to progress- but I do wish MNG the best in all their endeavors.

Jason

[Rick Knight]

I will make a few more comments that will hopefully shine some light on what has happened at the MNG and what created the situation I find myself in.

In my experience,  one person has decided the fate of the MNG. For whatever the reason this person has forced his/her will on the organization with very little push back from the newer members and the uninformed. I could clearly see what was happening and did have the backbone to stand up for what is right. You can see where it got me!

In addition, comments made to me, "that it does not matter what is on the front of the train, you could put a horse there and people would still ride the train", "what you do in the enginehouse is no more important than the person who cleans the toilets" and to top it off "you have never done anything of value for the MNG" are disgusting at the least.

It is clear now that our weekly work sessions in the enginehouse pushing # 7 toward a 2013 operating date were not appreciated. We had the required skills, the manpower, and even worked within our budget. Even though the rebuilding of # 7 was an approved project with dedicated (restricted funds) someone had decided we should not put the effort and money into rebuilding # 7.

In my opinion, the MNG has lost it way and seems to have no connection to the dreams of the volunteers that brought the equipment to Portland and built it into what it is today. With One strong willed board member, a president with no backbone, and an inexperienced executive director this is the mess you get.

Mike fox mentions the shortage of volunteers: it should not be to difficult to figure out why, they treat volunteers like crap, especially ones who have more knowledge, experience and different ideas.

What Hansel heard was called spin, there are many other words that describe that better.

To Ed Delory: the MNG has become a "closed" group with very little "official" information getting out. In fact the volunteers can't even get in the museum because it is locked!

I was told today that the president can't understand why I am still upset. I think the above incidents lay my position out pretty well.

~Rick.

[Ed Lecuyer]

[Moderator's Note]

I am letting this thread run, for now. For the record, I did edit both of Rick's posts - mostly for clarity and formatting to make them easier to parse.

That having been said, I'd like to re-focus the discussion to what can/should be done to move the restoration of #7 forward. I'd rather not dwell too hard on the mistakes of the past (and apparently current) administration of MNG.

[Brett Goertemoeller]

I think the answer about what can/should be done to move the restoration forward has been very well laid out by Rick.  I as well agree with Rick, I have worked with Rick before I left.  Anyone who tries to get rid of the experienced members of the steam crew is doing so at the risk of the steam locomotives, and their preservation.  A lot of us did more than just work on steam.  Mistakes of the past and current administration are what pushed a lot of us away from MNG, and are keeping a lot of us from ever going back.  When I call the Museum and talk to someone who is in charge (I will not say who on here) asking about truck sets that I know are there, and I’m met with the response of “what’s a truck set”….well, that ought to give you an idea where things are.  
  Now to get right to Ed’s question.  What should be done to move the restoration of #7 forward?  Here are a few of the easiest things that can be done.  
1.  Don’t alienate all of your experienced steam guys
2.  Don’t lie to your experienced steam guys
3.  Don’t degrade your volunteer base (or what’s left of it) by telling them that their volunteer interest isn’t valid or needed.  Everything that the organization gets for FREE is something that you don’t have to pay for and is valid (with a very few exceptions)
4.  Encourage the membership to know their bylaws and take responsibility for the organization.
5.  Put operating practices (meaning organizationally) in place that allow for the ease of operation, and allow for growth of the volunteers and the organization.   Taking a totalitarian approach does nothing but drive both tenured and prospective members and volunteers all away.
6.  The views of the membership, and the ENTIRE board have to be taken into consideration, and the president is there to listen, and to moderate.  It is his/her responsibility to think about the end goal of the organization, and not the feelings of just one person.  Now that having been said, if the group is hemorrhaging volunteers, members, and money….there is an issue.  There is a HUGE issue when it is your most senior and loyal volunteers.  That calls for some serious looks in the mirror to see what’s going on.  

Just my two cents, having been there.  I hope that they turn around for the sake of the collection.   It’s too bad that they cannot see past chest thumping and make it about the collection again.  I really hope that it turns around.  It used to be a great place to go.   Most of these questions can be answered by looking at groups like the WW&F who have really figured out how not to alienate people, and to use the abilities that people bring to the best betterment of the group.  This is the first step to getting the restoration of #7 back on track.  

[John Kokas]

Not having any contact with the MNG, all I can say it's a stunning rebuke and e'nuf said!  But sadly, if this is true, then the best hope for #7 would be for another organization to "lease" the engine for a period of time in exchange for finishing the rebuild.  This would most likely be the most expedicious route for its restoration and operation.

[Ed Lecuyer]

[Moderator's Note]
I went into this topic knowing it could open a can of worms. At this point, I think that everything that needs to be said about the inner-workings of MNG has been said. Unless someone has something positive to add to that part of the conversation, I'd like us to move on.

Instead, let's focus on what we can do to get #7 running again, if anything. As for me, I hope that this apparent work stoppage and disagreement is temporary, and that MNG can move forward as a whole.

[Terry Harper]

So I guess the question that comes to mind is what is left to be done on No. 7? How close was it to completion before the work stoppage?

[Rick Knight]

To answer Terry's question. To keep the budget affordable I was making every effort to focus on the boiler which we had farmed out to Jason and Brian. The Boiler work had been progressing steadily as they had time and we had funds. And then we had the fire which was a terrible set back. Now we had no work space and a locomotive that had been burned. The fire was the hottest just beside the firemans side of the tank. Basically everything from the floor up was damaged from the fire. As emotionally hard as it was we managed to pick through the remains of the end of the engine house saving what we could and clearing the mess. Basically the steam team took a deep breathe and dug in and rebuilt the end of the engine house into a workable space. Back to # 7. Luckily we had insurance that covered the loss of our hand tools and the tender/tank replacement. After getting the enginehouse usable we dug in on # 7 replacing all the steel from the frame up. We were in the process of duplicating the cab even to the point of test fitting the original roof. We were pushing that project forward virtually every weekend with a core group of the steam team. The boiler needs some finish welding, all the staybolts installed, and all the tubes installed. All the plumbing will need to be new. The cab needs to be finished. The new smoke box needs to be finished. I would say about a year and a halfs work with a core group of experienced steam team volunteers.  I also want to mention that the chassis/running gear of #7 is in very servicable shape. I learned on that engine at Edaville, was one of the last people to run it at Edaville and ran it at Portland, it is the "mercedes" of existing two foot engines. take my word !!!                      Rick.

[Hans Brandes]

The real story is that we need to raise additional funds to finish the job (contractor costs have gone way up since we started the project). So at this point we can not commit funds to finish the boiler. We are on a fundraising campaign. We are looking at doing some of the boiler work back in Portland in order to close the funding gap.

#7 was not worked on very much last year as we had to focus on #4. We replaced 26 staybolts, all with volunteer labor except for the welding. This took many work sessions. Most recently, we have spent time going over #4 and everything involved with steam for Polar Express. We have had tremdous growth in steam volunteers in the past year, with many new, younger faces showing up, willing to learn. We filled our steam roster for Polar Express during one lunch period.