Author Topic: Cleaning Engines Historically  (Read 1051 times)

Dante Lakin

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Cleaning Engines Historically
« on: February 12, 2025, 04:07:23 PM »
Hello all. Historically, what would the procedure have been for cleaning equipment? I've noticed in some images, even our own #9 was kept shiny all around, during the early days on the SRR when covered stations dotted the line.

I've heard that at least in some parts of the world, kerosene/paraffin oil was used, often mixed with oil to keep locomotives clean and sparkly, but is there any documentation about what was used in Maine, on the 2-footers? Would the modern equivalent materials cause active damage to equipment?

I ask because one of my favorite jobs is to wipe down #9, keeping 'er nice and pretty.

Bruce Wilson

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Re: Cleaning Engines Historically
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2025, 07:12:46 PM »
Interesting question and I'll tell you that I can't answer it definitively. From my own time at Edaville (and in the Winter) kerosene was used with a little light oil or diesel fuel in later years. I noticed that wiping with diesel looked good initially, but proved to be a dust magnet after a few trips.

Historically, I would speculate that whatever was available might be used. I'm thinking of the lean years in which the various two footers operated. This might include mixtures of various liquids depending on preference.

I have inventory records of what the Bridgton master mechanic (Mel Caswell) kept on the shelves and they were quite well stocked with all manner of paint, lead, lubricants, solvents, etc. I'll dig around in those old papers and see if I can find if anything was designated for the engine crews, as most purchases were assigned to a "department".
Wanted: Copies of correspondence and photographs from "first generation narrow gage railfans" such as Linwood Moody, Dick Andrews, Lawrence Brown, Ellis Atwood, H.T. Crittenden and others. Interested in all two foot (U.S.) rail operations, common carrier, industrial/mill and park/museum.

Bruce Wilson

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Re: Cleaning Engines Historically
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2025, 08:02:41 PM »
From a May 31, 1915 Bridgton & Saco River Railroad inventory...

Oils
Engine Oil.          54 gals
Car Oil.                 49  "
Valve Oil.              28  "
Kerosene.             61  "
Signal Oil.             10. "
Wafer Grease.       35lbs
Dixon's Grease.     80lbs
Tallow.                    50lbs

Misc.
Chamois Skins.        8

Paint Stocks (partial list)
Turpentine.             11/2 gals
Linseed Oil.             2 1/2 gals
Gold Leaf.                3 books

There are at least 15 more paint stock entries, including a color for the interior of the Railway Post Office car.

Wanted: Copies of correspondence and photographs from "first generation narrow gage railfans" such as Linwood Moody, Dick Andrews, Lawrence Brown, Ellis Atwood, H.T. Crittenden and others. Interested in all two foot (U.S.) rail operations, common carrier, industrial/mill and park/museum.

Tom Casper

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Re: Cleaning Engines Historically
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2025, 07:53:40 AM »
Interesting list I wonder what the difference was between,
Oils
Engine Oil.          54 gals
Car Oil.               49  "
any ideas?

Tom C.
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tom_srclry_com

Graham Buxton

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Re: Cleaning Engines Historically
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2025, 09:47:02 AM »
I expect that "Engine oil" could be premium priced product suitable for internal lubrication of cylinders, mixed with steam. More on that here: https://forum.wwfry.org/index.php?topic=1580.0

"Car oil" could be a lower priced product as there was no steam involved in lubricating railcars.
Graham

Benjamin Richards

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Re: Cleaning Engines Historically
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2025, 10:06:40 AM »
Car oil is probably for journal boxes.

Graham Buxton

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Re: Cleaning Engines Historically
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2025, 11:15:42 AM »
This TrainOrders  thread from 2006 has a lot of details on high temperature lubricants for steam cylinders:
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,1223469

(Trainorders is a 'pay' site, but you can read the first page of threads without a paid membership. The linked thread is only one page.)
Graham

Tom Casper

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Re: Cleaning Engines Historically
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2025, 07:52:42 AM »
I thought Valve oil was for cylinders.

Tom C.
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Bruce Wilson

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Re: Cleaning Engines Historically
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2025, 11:16:24 AM »
Tom, I had a similar thought. It would be interesting to learn the details of Mel Caswell's purchasing. Luckily, some carbon copies of his inquiries and purchase orders still exist. Many years ago, I picked up one of his journals and made photocopies of each page. The ink he used on his originals is mostly gone, requiring an almost forensic approach to lifting the impressions from the pages. It is a laborious process as is the transcribing. If in the future, someone would like to help me in transcribing approximately 1,100 pages of "Uncle Mels" correspondence, I'd welcome that. We might create a better understanding of what was routine back in the late 1800's.

Wanted: Copies of correspondence and photographs from "first generation narrow gage railfans" such as Linwood Moody, Dick Andrews, Lawrence Brown, Ellis Atwood, H.T. Crittenden and others. Interested in all two foot (U.S.) rail operations, common carrier, industrial/mill and park/museum.

Dante Lakin

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Re: Cleaning Engines Historically
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2025, 03:29:23 PM »
In my quest for answers, I came to reading old magazines and journals for enginemen new, old and prospective from the Internet Archive. One massive archive, aptly called the Locomotive Engineer https://archive.org/details/locomotiveengine14hill/page/560 references a paint cleaning recipe of "turpentine and boiled oil, equal parts" on page 560. Would "boiled oil" in this case be boiled linseed oil? If so, that makes this mixture quite close to one I've seen floating around for anvils and other raw metals, except with the addition of beeswax for extra shine.


Bruce Wilson

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Re: Cleaning Engines Historically
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2025, 05:18:16 PM »
To try to respond to your question, I searched a few sites for info on various oils and boiled linseed oil. I did not find any use of linseed oil as a cleaner. If anything in use on wood, a mineral oil is suggested to clean the surface before applying the linseed oil. Another page indicated that BLO is not boiled, but combined with solvent in equal parts to then be known as BLO.

Some of the YouTube automotive channels love to feature cars and trucks rescued from back fields, junkyards, etc. It is quite popular to preserve whatever original paint is left on these vehicles with what some call..."patina sauce".

In my own opinion, I think BLO is used in part to protect the sheet metal and show off the original color(s).
This mixture no doubt has a cure time, though that might depend on any number of factors.

In the late 1960's Edaville engine house, was all the crews needed for supplies to fire up and operate the steam locomotives. I can remember getting a coffee can half full of kerosene for igniting the pine slabs in the fire box. My father would fill the oil cans from whichever locomotive he was assigned on that day. And there was grease, brass polish and rags. Not much else, winter or summer.

Before we cleaned the locomotive, Dad would run up to Cranberry Valley working the throttle to pull any loose junk through the tubes. The boiler would be blown down and then we'd back down by the water tank and open the front end and (weather permitting) use a hose to wash everything down. Everything would be wiped down with rags and brass cleaned. In the winter, weather situations would dictate how much cleaning was done. In later years (1999 and so) I used diesel fuel on a rag to wipe down the Hudswell-Clarke engine no. 21. Among crews, that little 0-6-0 was lovingly referred to simply as "the Crudswell", though not because she was dirty.

I would think that kerosene or a light oil might have been used in the old days of the Maine two footers. Maybe not so much during the depression when those liquids were in scarce supply.

As I had said earlier in this thread, oil used on a locomotive boiler jacket becomes a dust magnet. A solvent would cook off or air dry and not hold the dirt and dust.

My Dad worked merchant ship boiler rooms in WWII and the Chiefs that he worked for, insisted on clean fire rooms and a clean stack when running. Two things he used to say not easily done with heavy bunker oil. The stories he and his buddies could tell, just a fading memory now.

One last experience is of the artifacts I have found walking the old W.W. & F. Ry. grade. Thirty years ago, I found a pickaxe head, numerous spikes and broken joint bars, bits of cattle guard and even a complete Ford model T radiator shell in the bushes up in Palermo. Along with items removed from Bridgton Junction, some of these rusty relics were cleaned and brushed with BLO. This has helped to preserve the metal and put a slight finish on as well.
Wanted: Copies of correspondence and photographs from "first generation narrow gage railfans" such as Linwood Moody, Dick Andrews, Lawrence Brown, Ellis Atwood, H.T. Crittenden and others. Interested in all two foot (U.S.) rail operations, common carrier, industrial/mill and park/museum.

Benjamin Richards

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Re: Cleaning Engines Historically
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2025, 08:45:27 AM »
I would think that kerosene or a light oil might have been used in the old days of the Maine two footers. Maybe not so much during the depression when those liquids were in scarce supply.

As I had said earlier in this thread, oil used on a locomotive boiler jacket becomes a dust magnet. A solvent would cook off or air dry and not hold the dirt and dust.

Further to this point - besides the volatility of the solvent, the polarity is also important. This is of particular interest to model railroaders who constantly fight what is essentially an electric discharge machining process at the rail-wheel interface. It turns out that some high-volatility solvents like ethanol will attract more dirt than lower-volatility ones like kerosene. This is because ethanol is much more polar than kerosene.