Author Topic: Track availability  (Read 52942 times)

Matthew Martin

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Re: Track availability
« Reply #45 on: November 08, 2008, 07:39:57 AM »
Oops. Never mind then.


I like the marquee letters feature!

Matthew Gustafson

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Re: Track availability
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2008, 03:53:31 PM »
Ken,  To bolster what Steve said - there are a number of things to consider with each piece of track expansion .  First is tree cutting which depends on the crews that show up and the weather they have to deal with in the winter.  Next is grade preparation - stump pulling, wash out repair and leveling which is mostly done by a contractor.  That's the first big expense.  Of course ties, rail, spikes, bolts and joint bars must be purchased too.  Another big expense is the stone ballast which must be purchased and trucked in.  

We have done all these things over the last 12 years I have been going to Sheepscot.  The basic rule has been to build 1,200 feet of new track each year or two.  I won't say (as some do) that we are just limited to running between Sheepscot, Alna Center  and eventually Head Tide but that's a real good start.  I think we will make up our minds about further expansion once we have those three stations to run between.  The deciding factor is that we must maintain every foot of track we put down.  It's more fun building new track than maintaining the older parts of the line.  My point is that I have seen our mainline grow over 2 miles since I've been going and I never get tired of going back to help build more.  I think our present formula works well for our size and financial situation.   

Stewart
Now Thats Why I Like new track Plans like the New Line being Consteructed on the V&T! Laying new track is like an Adventure to me!  :D :D
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Vincent "Lightning" LeRow

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Re: Track availability
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2008, 02:18:54 PM »
I would like to say that the museam shouldnt overlook the oportunity to lift rail of any weight.  It can always be sold for rail we need or even just cash.  especially if the rail is offered really, really cheap per ton, or just given to us. (remove it and you can have it). 

I have an idea that could really speed up the removal of rail by hand without damaging it.  I'll try to put it in a nutshell.

The gandy dancers really have the timing of laying track, what about running it in reverse?  #51 and the 4 wheel metal flats could possibly fit on a snowmobile trailer and be taken to the site.  The photos on the website sure make them look small. Then the could be stored in a colapsable wooden shed on site. Now combine this with say a 1/2 mile or so of light (33#) rail (track length) and a comprable amount of Insta-Track timbers, you could run the Insta-track between the standard gauge rails on the leveled fill and transport everything taken up back to a single point.  This also allows tools and people to be moved to the site by motive power instead of walking.  Everything taken out would have the possibility of being re-used.  The pulled spikes can be used by the museam to lay our maineline/sidings ect (or if too damaged sold for scrap), the rail/jointbars(fishplates?) can be sold for cash/traded for 60#/or used if 60# to lay our mainline, the tieplates can be sold for profit.  There is even the chance of getting relay ties that we can cut to 5ft size. 

Well I tried to keep it concise and clear.  Any thoughts/questions?

Vincent LeRow
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Dave Buczkowski

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Re: Track availability
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2008, 04:15:06 PM »
Vincent;
Your plan is logistically difficult for a number of reasons. First our "Insta Track" is used to hold the gauge of rail we are laying. I think you are referring to portable or bog track of which we only have a few pieces. Even if we did have sufficient lengths of it, it would have to be transported by truck and or trailer to the site. We don't have suitable equipment to move a locomotive, small flat and panel rail. By the time you load and unload #52 and the small flat along with loading and setting out the track you could already have removed the track you are after. A Bobcat or other loader is just as easy - unbolt and unspike lengths of rail and drag it out for further unbolting.
Dave

Dwight Winkley

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Re: Track availability
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2008, 08:00:20 PM »
Vincent
   51 weight is 1.5 tons, 52 weight is 12 tons. To much weight for a snowmobile trailer. Plus there is a shortage of manpower to remove rail from other locations.

dwight winkley

Vincent "Lightning" LeRow

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Re: Track availability
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2008, 08:10:21 PM »
Dave,

I wasn't refering to #52, that is a heavy engine that would be dificult to move.  But #51 is a whole lot lighter at only 1/10 of the wight of #52, and I think only has the capability of moving one of the reagular cars like 118.  The description on the WW&F webite depicts it as the perfect locomotive for this(operaing on track that wouldn't be safe with heavier equipment), and the description of the metal flats says that they could be picked up by four strong people.  

I have no idea what bog track is,  but I have seen pictures of #51 and the metal flat with a load of rail on the Instatrack in the thread about the fall work weekend.  This isn't intended to be a permanent or even long term instalation, just a snap together in-n-out type deal.

And as far as using a dozer, well that would be a whole lot better to use if the rail was in an easily acessable area, like industry or where there's a lot of grade crossings close together or only a few thousand feet of rail.  You would also need a loader at the site, unless you alredy have a method of transporting yours.

I understand that removing and ransporting rail takes up valuable volunteer time (I volunteer a the MNGRR).  My goal here was an atempt to reduce the amount of time it would take to complete this already dificult task, and without an investment in costly hydrolic equiment. I apologize for taking up your time with such a friviluos idea. I just thought the Museam might be able to get something out of it.

Vincent LeRow
A spike saved is a spike earned.

John McNamara

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Re: Track availability
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2008, 08:33:37 PM »
I apologize for taking up your time with such a frivolous idea. I just thought the Museum might be able to get something out of it.

Vincent LeRow

Even if we don't adopt your idea immediately, some part of it may still be useful in the future. If we all keep all of the ideas expressed in the Forum in the back of our minds, the time will come when someone says, "Hey, I'll bet a variation of Vince LeRow's idea would work here!"

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Pete "Cosmo" Barrington

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Re: Track availability
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2008, 11:39:09 PM »
I'll seccond what John said. using 51, light cars and temporary track may be a usefull way to reach the Carelton Brook trestle site from the 214 end when it comes to be that time.  ;)

Dave Buczkowski

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Re: Track availability
« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2008, 11:53:04 PM »
Vincent;
I mistyped. I knew you meant #51 and it will pull a flatcar. I what you call Instatrack is what I called bog track. It's very light rail with steel ties and we don't have much of it. And you weren't taking up our time. We invite thinking out of the box. Just don't think too much beyond 1930.
Pete;
Vincent was talking about removing donated or purchased track with his idea not using bog track to access our ROW.
Dave

Pete "Cosmo" Barrington

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Re: Track availability
« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2008, 12:48:16 AM »
To quote Peter Sellers:

"Ah knew that!"

But the general concept of using some of the more portable pieces to access a more remote location is worth some thought.
(In fact, it WAS common enough "back in the day." Go back FAR enough and you'll find locomotives brought over roads by horse or ox teams!)

John Kokas

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Re: Track availability
« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2008, 12:08:02 PM »
May I add that "thinking outside the box" is a very good thing.  Although not all ideas come to fruition, it helps to keep us out of the rut of stagnate thinking...........

Speaking of scrapping out rail lines, my best experience was using a hy-rail equipped boom truck with a rail rack and trailer.  It allows you to get right to the point of removal and pull/load lengths as you free them up.  With a trailer you can pull sections and carry them down to a crossing or access and transfer the lengths & materials to the trailer and go back for more.  When filled, just hook up to the trailer and go.  Not as efficient as a demo train but you can get into places where most operations can't.
Lastly, in today's market, prices for this type of equipment have fallen drastically and can be found at auctions for cents on the dollar.  IMHO might be a good time to look around and see what can be obtained.
Moxie Bootlegger

Vincent "Lightning" LeRow

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Re: Track availability
« Reply #56 on: November 20, 2008, 01:50:08 PM »
Alright everyone,

I understand, and I do like the idea of the hy-rail truck/trailer.  Sounds like a champion idea, keeping the removal and shipping all in-house which is a great way to keep expenses down (which was my goal in the first place). ;D 

I had also considered suggesting my origional idea for temporarily extending the EOT all of the way to the end of the cleared ROW. Then all of the cut wood could be loaded onto flatcars and brought back to Sheepscot to fire our stam engines. (pulpwood cars anyone?) :)  No more purchasing firewood or cutting up picnic bences/tables. ::)

Vincent LeRow

PS: do you guys re-use scavanged spikes or only new ones?  I've driven both into ties and can't really tell the difference.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2008, 01:52:24 PM by Vincent LeRow »
A spike saved is a spike earned.

Matthew Martin

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Re: Track availability
« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2008, 06:01:08 PM »
I have an idea. We could get people to buy sections of track like the buy a brick programs some librarys and museums have. They could put the sponsors name on the ties and rail segments that we bought with there money.

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the marquee feature is cool :D

Stewart "Start" Rhine

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Re: Track availability
« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2008, 12:57:35 PM »
Vincent,  The Museum has had rail donated in the past.  Some was delivered by the donor while other rail was still on a right of way and had to be lifted.  We have also purchased rail that was still on the ground and had to lift it ourselves.  I have worked on a rail pulling crew in Maryland and the Hi-Rail boom truck works best.  If the ties, trestles and track are in good condition, the truck can travel the line and load rail on a flat car as the ground crew gets everything freed.  A bobcat works best for the long abandonded lines with wash outs and trees growing up through the track.  I know the Museum's Board would consider accepting all donations of rail, whatever size if the logistics worked out in their favor.  The thing with going somewhere to lift rail is the equipment needed, time it takes and crew availability.  I was on the crew that went over East to pull rail and it took a crew of about 10 a number of weekends to do the job.  Everything from cutting bolts to loading to transport up to the grade crossing was done by hand.  It was alot of work.  (It was also the only time I've stayed in two motels at the same time.  I had a room in Wiscasset for two weeks and during that time took some stuff over to a motel in Hancock while still paying for the room in Wiscasset).   There were a few projects at Sheepscot put on hold while we were in Hancock.  The bottom line is that the value of any future rail donations would be measured by location and the amount of work needed to get it to Sheepscot.   

BTW, There's a saying in the fire service.  "There are no bad ideas or questions"
« Last Edit: November 21, 2008, 01:05:07 PM by Stewart Rhine »

Wayne Laepple

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Re: Track availability
« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2008, 04:10:32 PM »
There's an elephant and a gorilla in the room when it comes to lifting track. The elephant is having enough people near the takeup location. If one has to drive a couple of hours (or more) before even starting work, it really cuts down on productivity.

The gorilla is finding an individual to do all the necessary legwork and organization that must be done ahead of time and afterward. He is the guy who has to arrange with the track owner for the sale or donation, figure out how and where to stage everything, recruit volunteers willing to work on the project, make sure the necessary tools and equipment are on hand each day, arrange for trucks to transport the rail, deal with permits, insurance, and so on. Afterward, he has to figure out where the scarp goes, how to dispose of the ties, and so on.

Finally, our budget is so constrained that we cannot presently afford to buy hy-rail trucks, Bobcats and other equipment, license them, insure them and keep them running for the occasions when a takeup opportunity might come our way.

In the end, a decision must be made by management whether it's cost-effective to expend scarce resources on a takeup in the face of all the other things that must be done. To my way of thinking, to do divert resources from Sheepscot for track material we cannot immediately use (60-pound rail and switch material) would not be responsible.