Author Topic: 1927 Bridgton Jct Map  (Read 4805 times)

Ed Lecuyer

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1927 Bridgton Jct Map
« on: December 21, 2008, 07:52:08 PM »
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1927 Bridgton Jct Map has been converted from the pre-July 2008 WW&F Discussion Forum.
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Stephen Hussar wrote:
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From the Stewart Rhine collection...

_________________
*                *                    *                   *
"Give me enough Swedes and whiskey and I'll build a railroad to Hell."
- James J. Hill

Mike Fox replied:
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Any Idea who drew that. I haven't seen that version before?
Mike

Glenn Christensen replied:
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Hi Guys,
I had never seen that map either, do we know the source of the original?
It looks very close to a map that Richard Andrews drew for "Two Feet to the Lakes", but his does not show even a dashed standard gauge turntable and siding.
I note that in Junction photos from the 30s and 40s there were actually two narrow gauge tracks sandwiched between the northern-most two standard gauge sidings.  They show up very clearly in several photos.  I suspect both sidings may have even been there by 1927 (I can't imagine why they would need to build any more sidings at the Junction in the 30s), but I just did a quick search and couldn't find  any photographic evidence for this latter belief - so I may just be blowing hot air.
My two cents ...
Best Regards,
Glenn

Mike Fox replied:
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Another thing about the maps, D ick Andrews (Spaced to prevent censorship) showed the Dual guage in front of the coal shed. This one does not. But without rough sketches like this one, one might not have anything to go by now.
Mike

Stewart Rhine replied:
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All,  I got this map with some B&SR material (including timetables, baggage check tags, and engine 5's cab bell) at the Gaithersburg Train Show a few years ago.  The original was very faded and hard to read.  I made a copy of it and then retraced the lines on the copy to make them darker.  I went over everything I could see.  I don't remember seeing a name or inventory number on the map.   I thought it was interesting because of the dotted line indicating a planned or removed standard gauge turntable.  I think the map was drawn because 1927 was the year the Maine Central sold the narrow gauge but that's just a guess.  I was hoping the B&SR fans could tell me about the second turntable.
I agree that the yard trackage doesn't look like the sidings in the photos I have seen.  I don't know much more than what I have posted here but I am going to get the original out to see if I can see any more information on it.

Mike Fox replied:
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Stewart,
Finally found the map I was looking for. It is in Edgar Meads book Busted And Still Running. It shows The standard guage turntable. As well as the map in Peter Barneys Book, The Bridgton and Saco River. But like I said before, I have never seen any evidence it was there accept there is a built up approach over there that would go to the area where the map says there was one. So now there are atleast 2 maps without and 2 maps with the turntable. Kind of makes you wonder. Time to look at more pictures.
Mike

Glenn Christensen replied:
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Hi Guys,
Mike's response just reminded me of something ...
The official B&SR map of Bridgton Junction - dated Sept 1918 and  labelled "Bridgton & Saco River Railroad Co. Office of the Chief Engineer, Portland, Me." may be found at the bottom of page 33 in Edgar Mead's book, "The Bridgton Narrow Gauge (Bridgton & Saco River Railroad)".
This is volume 1 of the 2-volume B&SR history that Mr. Mead published in May 1985.  The 2 volumes together were essentially and expanded and updated version of his earlier book, "Busted and Still Running".
The map shows no standard gauge turntable and two narrow gauge sidings between the eastern-most (I had previously said "northern-most", but these are the tracks I meant) two standard gauge sidings.
I also have a copy (somewhere) of the official B&SR siding chart that I bought from Gary Kohler.  I'll bet he still has a few of these for sale.
Best Regards,
Glenn

Steve Klare replied:
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Which direction is "North" on this map?
(Numbers on a clock face is fine.)

Glenn Christensen replied:
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Hi Steve,
On the posted map, north is at 3 0'clock.
Oh ... and I just noticed ... the posted map shows both standard and narrow gauge sidings directly in front of the coal shed.  This may have been a notational sort of thing, but there was only one siding of three-railed track in front of the coal shed.   The two narrow gauge rails were closest to the shed.  Interestingly, this meant the two rails furthest from the shed would have been 32.5" gauge.
Others have said this was the only real-world incidence of three-railed track on the 5 Maine Two-Footers and I believe this to have been the case.
Best Regards,
Glenn

Steve Klare replied:
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Thanks Glenn,
I remember reading about a proposed extension of the SR&RL by dual-gauging the MEC to a mill about a mile south of Farmington. but it was never done. (-kind of a shame!)
Dual-gauge operations are fascinating. It's the one thing I kind of miss as a Two-Footer fanatic!

Stewart Rhine replied:
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Glenn,  You are right about the B&SR's coal shed siding.  It was the only track that had a common running rail for dual gauge operations on a Maine 2 footer.

Dana Deering replied:
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Glen,
I went looking in my B&SR books and also found that map you cite.  I think it was an official MCRR survey from 1915 (?) and definitely doesn't show any turntable.  Another source for info would be the Bridgton Historical Society.  They have a collection of track maps that divide the RR into at least ten maps and the detail is superb.  I used one to find the locations of the siding at West Sebago, Gravel Pit siding (which also shows a section house at that spot), and the location for Twin Lake station.  I don't know if you've ever seen them but these maps are large!
Dana

Glenn Christensen replied:
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Hi Dana,
No, I never got to see the ROW maps at the BHS, but I'd very much like to.  Perhaps on a future trip.
Wish I could join you guys on your explorations!
Best Regards,
Glenn

Allan Fisher replied:
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About ten years ago I bought the complete set of Valuation Maps for the B&SR & the SR&RL - anyone who would like to see them, see me when I'm back in Maine. Seems to me that there are about 25-30 for the B&SR and 80-90 for the SR&RL.
They will go to the WW&F Archives when I am done with them.
Oh yes, I also have 2 copies of the val maps for the Kennebec Central!

Steve Klare replied:
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I watched the Albert G Hale film "Bridgton & Harrison" last night, and I wanted you to know that because of this discussion the footage down in Bridgton Junction made a lot more sense. All of a sudden, I recognized structures in the backgrounds of scenes because I had a much better  feel for the layout of the yard.
You have educated a Sandy River Guy!
Thanks!

Mike Fox replied:
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Steve,
Was this a film by itself or included in the SRRL Two Foot Gauge in Maine movie? Just wondering.
Mike

Wayne Laepple replied:
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I'm coming into this discussion a bit late, but looking at the map, I don't see a runaround track anywhere. Did the B&H drop its cars into Bridgton Jct. yard?

Mike Fox replied:
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Everything was gravity Wayne. A slight down hill slope into the yard. Normally the train would stop and uncouple, head for the turn table and then the brakemen would let the cars drift into the yard. This would be highly frowned upon now though.
Mike

Steve Klare replied:
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Mike,
In the VHS video version (with dubbed sound track) this is sold by Sunday River Productions as "Two Foot Gauge in Maine" together with SR&RL, MRR and WW&F footage.
What I was watching was a Super-8 print I bought from Sunday River somewhere around 1978 or 1979 titled "The Bridgton and Harrison". It is scenes of the B&H along with a nice segment on the Belfast and Moosehead Lake.  I have a 9 foot diagonal screen and the trains  stand on the screen 3 and 4 feet high.
The neat part is it has a cab ride on Number 8, and a couple of years after I bought the print I was at Edaville and filmed my own cab ride on number 8 from the exact same spot. (Fireman's side front and side cab windows) I made an effort to duplicate the camera angles as much as I could.
I have "Two Foot Gauge in Maine" in Super-8 also, but this is SR&RL, MRR and WW&F without the B&H stuff.
It was because I saw these two films in an MR or TRAINS ad., that I first became involved in 8mm film. I was a sixteen year old Maine Two Foot Crazy and when I got any kind of a chance to see these trains run, I grabbed for it, -even though I had no projector at the time.

Mike Fox replied:
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Nice. I bet that is great footage. I often wonder what the production companies that make the films leave out. Might be some interesting stuff to someone.
Mike

Steve Klare replied:
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The funny part is the film opens up with a sequence titled "Over the Line, January 1st, 1937" and it hit me all of a sudden I was watching something that happened exactly 70 years ago. It is a ride in a railbus north into Bridgton, with a stop at West Sebago to pick up mail (-young fellow with round glasses, anybody know him?) and the view past Hancock Pond (I made an effort to look for the water tank this time). I guess from the date that it is the Chevrolet railbus, because I think SR&RL #4 was still up in Farmington on that date.
The film is basically this railbus sequence, #8 hauling a long passenger extra full of kids going to camp (if my math is correct, the "kids" are my parents age.), and #7 hauling a freight train (about 4 cars of coal followed by four boxcars).
Ed Lecuyer
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