Author Topic: Water Tank construction  (Read 2212 times)

Ed Lecuyer

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Water Tank construction
« on: December 13, 2008, 05:53:39 PM »
MODERATORS NOTE:
Water Tank construction has been converted from the pre-July 2008 WW&F Discussion Forum.
Some formatting may have been removed or modified from the original postings that appear quoted in this topic.
Information contained within this post may be superseded by more recent postings and conversations.

James Patten wrote:
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Ed suggested a water tank construction discussion, so here it is.

For those that don't know, the new water tank arrived a couple of weeks ago.   It's now sitting on its side on #126.  Zack was crawling around inside it last weekend, installing a flapper valve.  I peeked inside, and it's got a ladder for easy access.

I think Zack would be happy to get the tank installed before the busy season starts, and get the front of the building up so that it can be used by the steam engine.  It still needs to be epoxied inside (which we will contract out, never fear!), after which we can place it on its pedestal.

Joe Fox replied:
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Thanks for the info James. When will the tank be set on the beams?

_________________

“We are extremely proud of our collection of historical railroad equipment, which is the largest of any U. S. railroad, especially our steam locomotives.”
-Steve Lee-

Joe

James Patten replied:
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After it's epoxied.

BM1455 replied:
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Joe,

Of course the youngest member gets to go inside the tank and do the epoxying....

Joe Fox replied:
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I don't think so Eric.

James, I heard a rummor that the tank is supposed to be servicable by the time the tourist season starts up?
_________________
“We are extremely proud of our collection of historical railroad equipment, which is the largest of any U. S. railroad, especially our steam locomotives.”
-Steve Lee-

Joe

Mike Fox replied:
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It will not take long to install once finished. But then to install the water pipe from the well along with the wiring that needs to be done. We have to wait for the ground to thaw to do that.

Mike

Ira Schreiber replied:
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Remember, Joe;
Age and cunning always overcome youth and enthuasism

Josh Botting replied:
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I heard it as:
Old age and treachery beats youth and exuberance, anyday.....

James Patten replied:
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Zack hopes to have it running by the beginning of July.

Mike Fox replied:
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I was told the tank went up yesterday. Leon Weeks coordinated everything and the tank was set into place safely and Zack put the valve under the platform on and will be starting the walls and other plumbing needs shortly. Some pictures were taken and will eventually make their way around.

Mike

jwhoughton replied:
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I'm pleased to hear of the recent work on the water tank and would love to see pictures posted showing the progress.  I believe this structure will increase the "railroad ambiance" of the Sheepscot Station area and will probably help in the servicing of the steam engines as well. Good work!

John

Joe Fox replied:
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Once it is in running order, we won't have to fill up the tender every trip, which is a good thing. All we will have to do is make sure that the tank doesn't get over filled. Because, with the two foot gauge engines, an over full tender means a wet load of coal.

Joe

Wayne Laepple replied:
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Joe, in the real world, it was quite common for locomotive firemen to wet down the coal pile in the tender to reduce dust. They didn't soak it, of course, but sprayed water from the cab water hose from time to time. When running at higher speeds, the breeze generated would sometimes blow the coal dust into the cab. This was especially the case on stoker-fired engines because the stoker screw grinds the coal up fairly fine. Also, because coal was usually delivered to the tender from a coal wharf, the fines tended to end up at the bottom all the time.

Joe Fox replied:
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Oh. I remember Dana telling me that the coal is more combustable when it is a little wet. However, if it is to wet, then it is even worse than when it is dry.

Joe

James Patten replied:
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With the tank up, it makes for a tall building.

Leon was quite relieved when the tank was up there on its pedestal.

gordon cook replied:
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Here's some pictures of Saturday's lifting of the  new steel water tank at Sheepscot.

It all went as planned,  showing the experience and thought that went into lifting such a heavy object without benefit of modern machinery. There was one minor issue when the weight of the tank was put on the 'crane'   which was quickly corrected, and the 2 ton tank rose smoothly into the air and down  on the platform, in place within 1/4 inch, before lunch.

The basic setup (lifting muscle provided by No. 52):



The MasterMinds of the operation:



Lifting into upright position:



Upright and ready to lift:



VP-'Superman / Two Ties' Steve Z winning Sheepscot's Strongest Man competition:



In place on the platform:


_________________
Gawdon

Stephen Hussar replied:
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Outstanding! Great pictures...thanks for posting them!

jwhoughton replied:
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Great job - and cleaverly done without a "modern" crane.  As an earlier poster mentioned it is TALL!  Thanks very much for posting the pictures.  How many gallons will it hold?  What is the capacity of the "tender" tank?

John

Joe Fox replied:
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The new water tank will hold 10,364 gallons of water. I read it off of a set of blue prints laying inside of the station. Thanks for the pictures Gordon.

Gordon, can you email me the pictures please, so that I can use them in the power point presentation. Those would be a great contribute to it as well. Thanks

Joe

Allan Fisher replied:
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I just talked to Zack - the Tank, which his brother built, holds 3000 gallons.

#10's tank holds about 300 gallons. #9's tank probably holds 400-450 gallons

Joe Fox replied:
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Oh. I was only going by what I read on the blue prints. Sorry about the error in the # of gallons.

Joe

Fred L. Kuhns replied:
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James Patten , I was thinking with such a large water supply at hand would it be possible to use the tank as a source of fire protection.

Mike Fox replied:
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Fred,

I think it could be used as a water supply rather nicely, like to refill the fire car in a hurry. As for any other fire protection, something could probably be hooked up but it would only be gravity fed unless a pump was installed. But the tank will most likely be drained for the winter so not much would be gained by using it as a supply.

Mike

Fred L. Kuhns replied:
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Mike,Thanks for your reply to my question. Look forward to seeing the tank enclosed in the new tank house. Great pictures of the tank being placed on the platform.

Mike Fox replied:
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It is hard to tell in the pictures the real size of it all. I guess a saying would apply here. "That is one tall drink of water."

Mike

ETSRRCo replied:
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Im planing to be up this July. When do you expect to have it enclosed?

-Eric
________________
Eric Bolton
East Tigard & Southern Railroad Co 1889-1958

Mike Fox replied:
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The West wall where the water spout is going to be needs to be done first to get the tank in operation. After that, I think it will be as time and manpower permit, although Zack will probably want it all done as quick as we can possibly get it.

Mike

Steve Zuppa replied:
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Good luck on getting the tank closed in.We can't even get that pain in the a** that started shingling the flammables shed to finish it.

Steve
_________________
"Keep to the code!"
Capt. Jack Sparrow

Stephen Hussar replied:
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Too busy thrilling the crowds with his weekly "feats of strength" performances...

Wayne Laepple replied:
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You gave it away, Steve. I was just about to ask who the a** was.

elecuyer replied:
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[Moderator Mode ON...]

I *assume* that the above comments are in jest or some kind of inside joke. (Not being a Sheepscot regular, I don't know for sure.)

If it is a joke, please be sure to use a smiley ':-)' or some other indicator. If not, let's not pollute the forum with name calling.

Thanks.

-Ed
(Filling in for the vacationing James Patten)
[...Moderator Mode OFF]

Dave Buczkowski replied:
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Ed;

Nothing is amiss here. It's just "Two Ties" poking fun at himself. I think it was a defensive move as he figured I would chime in that we will get to Rte 218 before the shingling is done... It's part of a long stream of contractor jokes. And he probably doesn't know how to use a smiley. (Like me)

Dave

Mike Fox replied:
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Steve Z. planted the seed, I ran with it.

A No. 1 is leaving the scene with stick in hand and smile on his face!!!


Mike Fox replied:
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OK. Time for a pictorial update of the Watertower. Zack had a crew yesterday and put up all 4 walls. Here is a sample of the pics I took. All 15 will be on NE Rail.

Mike




Stewart Rhine replied:
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Mike,  Great shots.  Thanks for the post.

Joe Fox replied:
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It does look great. I can't wait to see the finished product. Just think how much quicker the servicing time will be once the water tower is put into service.

Joe

James Patten replied:
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The watertower is now completely boarded over, thanks to the busy bees of yesterday.  I think they were done with it by 2.

Before use, it still needs piping run up to in it, as well as electricity out to the pump.  Plus a casting of some kind needs to be put on the end of the out pipe.  So there's still a ways to go.

Ira Schreiber replied:
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A roof would be nice, too.

Josh Botting replied:
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Na,  No roof makes it a self filling water tank, just need a  big funnel....

Stewart Rhine replied:
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Thanks to Bill R. for posting a view of the tank on NERAIL with the sheathing installed.  You can see what a good sized building it is.  Of course it'll be higher because (as noted) the roof's not even on it yet.   

Bill Reidy replied:
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I've posted four photos tonight showing the tank building as it was Saturday afternoon after the sheathing had been applied.

I got interrupted after posting the first photo so I was a bit delayed posting the other three!

- Bill

Wayne Laepple replied:
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Thanks for posting the photos, Bill. I wondered what it would look like. It really seems like a massive structure.

Joe Fox replied:
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Thanks for the photos Bill. They look great, and the building really is starting to come together. It just shows the type of skills and dedication that the volunteers have. I love the photo of the train in front of the water tower.

Joe

Bill Reidy replied:
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Thanks to Dave Olszewski for posting photos on nerail showing yesterday's framing of the water tank building's roof.

- Bill

Dave Buczkowski replied:
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Thank you Dave as well. I notice that there weren't any photos of the siding on the fuel storage shed. Did youy and Two Ties not get an opportunity to work on it as planned?

Dave

James Patten replied:
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Two Ties got shanghied into being my fireman on Saturday.  But he promises he'll do it next weekend.

Ira Schreiber replied:
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My 2 cents worth....

Dave O. got the interior siding painted on the 103. He did a good job and it looks much better.

The water tank now has about 75% of the roof applied, thanks to Zack and Marcel.

A crew cleaned up the area between the tool shed and the fuel shed. All the wood went to a burn pilke, while the metal was distributed to various existing locations along the ROW. It certainly looks a lot better. Included among the helpers were Brad, Fred, Ira and  Steve Smith.

Others, names not noted, worked around the machine shop.

Note:
This is NOT a spy report.

Joe Fox replied:
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Hi guys,

I know this doesn't relate to the water tower construction fully, but I was wondering if it would be possible to fill the tender up with as much coal as would be needed for the entire days operation. By this, I mean have all the coal buckets dumped in the tender before the first run of the day. Is it possible to move some of those tools around, so that we could over fill the coal bunker, but not enough to make the coal go over the edge of the tender? I only ask this because if that is done, it is one less chore for the steam crew, and the engine would only have to stop at the ash pit for a minute, and then continue to the water tower to have water added to it. With all of the coal all ready in the tender, it would make the run around that much faster. Just an idea, and a question.

Thanks,

Joe

Dave Olszewski replied:
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Quote from: Ira Schreiber
My 2 cents worth....

Dave O. got the interior siding painted on the 103. He did a good job and it looks much better.

The water tank now has about 75% of the roof applied, thanks to Zack and Marcel.

A crew cleaned up the area between the tool shed and the fuel shed. All the wood went to a burn pilke, while the metal was distributed to various existing locations along the ROW. It certainly looks a lot better. Included among the helpers were Brad, Fred, Ira and  Steve Smith.

Others, names not noted, worked around the machine shop.

Note:
This is NOT a spy report.

Thank you very much. I will finish with green paint on Saturday. I was going to paint it green yesterday but it was raining. Also Steve Z and I will work on shingle on Saturday. We were going to do it last Saturday but he was fireman so I paint #103. I do not read this forum often.

Dave

Josh Botting replied:
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Joe,

I should think we would want to minimize the amount of weight on the rear frame, due to its current condition.

Joe Fox replied:
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Oh yeah, that's right to. I forgot all about the way the frame was built, and the condition that it is in right now. Just so others know, the rear frame is in great condition, but the frame isn't quite as level with the cab as it should be.

Joe

Dave Olszewski replied:
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Thank you Dave as well. I notice that there weren't any photos of the siding on the fuel storage shed. Did youy and Two Ties not get an opportunity to work on it as planned?


Dave

Hello David,

Steve Zapp and I were going to work on shingle on fuel storage shed last Saturday but Jason call him to be fireman. So I painted a coat of primer on #103. So we will work on it tomorrow.  Now it still look ugly until we put all shingle on it. I will take photo of it if we are done with it. I posted  hundred photos of Maine Eastern RR into Nerail. Did you look at them?

Dave

gordon cook replied:
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I finally put my pictures of the water tank raising on the web, so if you goto

http://picasaweb.google.com/gorcook/WaterTankRaisingMay2007

you should be able to view them.

Please enjoy.

_________________
Gawdon

Dave Olszewski replied:
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Hello everyone,

I posted many photos of water tank and fuel shed into Nerail Photo last night. It looks great. I can't wait to finish with them this Summer.  I worked on shingles on fuel storage shed yesterday. It was first time I work on it and learn it. It was fun. It is not done yet. I hope to finish with it next week.

http://photos.nerail.org/show/?order=byrail&page=1&key=WW%26F

Dave

Joe Fox replied:
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Thanks for the links Gordon and Dave. Greatly appreciated.

Joe

Fred L. Kuhns replied:
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The wooden shingles that are on the fuel storage shed are they sealed or painted ?  Will the same type of shingle be used on the water tank building.  Both building 's look very good .                                                                                                              Fred Kuhns

Stewart Rhine replied:
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Fred,  The oil house shingles are not treated.  The building will be painted to match the station and freight house.  That may happen this Fall.   Our new tank is being built to resemble the original at Head Tide so it will be shingled and painted.  There's a display of shingles in the freight house from the original Head Tide tank that Bruce W. got in the early 1990's.  It shows that the tank building was painted.

Fred L. Kuhns replied:
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Stewart, Looking forward to seeing the buildings painted thanks again for your  answer.   Fred Kuhns

Dave Olszewski replied:
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Stewart, Looking forward to seeing the buildings painted thanks again for your  answer.   Fred Kuhns

Hi Fred and Steward,

I worked on shingles  on fuel storage shed there two and three weeks ago. They were non-treated. I was mistaked put treated shingle at bottom of one side. Fred Moorse brought 5 gallon of water proof sealer to me. He told me to use it for it. They told me they will not paint it. We will paint  green on pine board on corner of new Water Tank and about 1/4 wall of shingles at bottom of Water Tank. Did you see model at musuem. We will put treated shingles on water tank? I forgot to ask Fred M if he want me to paint water proof sealer on shingle last Saturday. I was going to ask him but he was cutting weeds near Alna Center so I have to wait. Later I forgot to ask him.

Dave

Dave Olszewski replied:
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Hi Fred and Steward,

I just finished with paint on trim on water tank today.  It is light green. I started it  yesterday after lunch then rain come. So I came back there and finish with it today. We will put shingles on it in two weeks. Also I painted  water proof sealer on shingle on fuel shed yesterday. I just posted new photos into nerail.

See them at http://photos.nerail.org/show/?order=byrail&page=1&key=WW%26F

Dave

Stewart Rhine replied:
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Dave,  Thanks for the pics!  It's great to see the progress.

Bill Reidy replied:
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Yes Dave -- many thanks for posting today's photos.  Greatly appreciated by those of us who can't get by as frequently as we would like!

- Bill

Fred L. Kuhns replied:
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Dave , thanks for the many pictures and progress reports on the water tank building.  The information provide in the last newsletter telling how the building size was determined was very interesting.  Wonder, who was incharge of keeping the fire going in the stove in the winter?                     Fred Kuhns

Dave Olszewski replied:
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Hi everyone,

Today I came to railway musuem. Zach and Allen told me they have new cans of primer paint. They told me that they are for fuel shed. I will do it tomorrow. Before they told me they don't want paint on it. It will look great if it have paint. I hope it will have 3/4 light green paint and 1/4 dark green pain like Alna Center. I just cleaned, scap and paint a coat of primer on steel pipe today. It is for water tank. It is going to be black. They did not say when will they start to put shingle on water tank.

Have a good day!

Dave

Dave Olszewski replied:
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Fred,  The oil house shingles are not treated.  The building will be painted to match the station and freight house.  That may happen this Fall.   Our new tank is being built to resemble the original at Head Tide so it will be shingled and painted.  There's a display of shingles in the freight house from the original Head Tide tank that Bruce W. got in the early 1990's.  It shows that the tank building was painted.

Hi Steward and Fred,

I already painted oil shed light blue and dark green matched to station. It is all done. You can see photo of it at Nerail Photo. See at

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?2007082017372922595.jpg or see at bottom.

Before they told me no paint on it but they changed thier mind. 

Have a good day.

Dave


James Patten replied:
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Too late for anyone to change their mind now! 

Looks really nice, Dave.

Dave Olszewski replied:
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Too late for anyone to change their mind now! 

Looks really nice, Dave.

James,

Thank you. Did you make them to change thier mind?  What will I do next? Paint #10 and #9  engine light blue and dark green so train will be light blue and dark green? 

Dave

elecuyer replied:
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If you paint #10 (or #9) light blue, we'll have to refer to it as "Thomas."

But that wouldn't be very useful.

-Ed

Dave Olszewski replied:
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If you paint #10 (or #9) light blue, we'll have to refer to it as "Thomas."

But that wouldn't be very useful.

-Ed

Hi Ed,

Did you work with me at musuem last Saturday and move pile of poles?

Will you make Thomas's face for #10 and #9? 

I never see Thomas engine before. I know Boothbay Railway Musuem had it recently but I was busy at WW&F Railway.

Dave

elecuyer replied:
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Yep that was me - the younger and skinnier of the three "Eds" that were working the pole pile. It was great working with you - you are a determined and dedicated worker.

And I have it on good authority that "Thomas" won't be visiting the WW&F any time soon.

-Ed Lecuyer

Joe Fox replied:
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Hi Ed, and Dave,

I too have heard that it is safe to say that Thomas won't be visiting Alna any time soon. Great photo Dave. The gas shed sure does look great now.

Joe

Joe Fox replied:
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The Water tower was used for the first time yesterday, with a stove pipe, and the shut off valve inside the building. Zach said that the flood door won't shut all the way. The first time the tender wasn't down very low, so we ended up overfilling the tender, and after the 4 o'clock trip, the tender was left at about 3 or 4 inches bellow the top of the tank on the tender. Kind of hard to see the water level with all the water that comes out of the spout.

Joe

Dave Olszewski replied:
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Hi,

It was first time they filled up #10 from Water Tank. They had three people to fill it up. It was hard for two people to do it because water value is inside the building. I thought they should have water value inside  tank like toilet and pull the rope to open value and fill up and relase rope to close value. Or they should have  water value outside.

Dave

Joe Fox replied:
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Hi Dave,

The water valve to let water to the spout is inside the tank, and there is also a flood door right after the water valve, so when the door is able to be operated properly, the flood door will be opened by the steam crew from the outside. That is what the rope that comes down and goes back up into the square hole near the top of the tank is for, that is the rope that controls the flood door, or at least that is what I think it is for. Talk to you later.

Joe

Dave Olszewski replied:
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Hi Dave,

The water valve to let water to the spout is inside the tank, and there is also a flood door right after the water valve, so when the door is able to be operated properly, the flood door will be opened by the steam crew from the outside. That is what the rope that comes down and goes back up into the square hole near the top of the tank is for, that is the rope that controls the flood door, or at least that is what I think it is for. Talk to you later.

Joe

This photo show how did the fireman open and close water value with rope.  They did not have to go to top of tank or inside building to open and close value. I hope it explain you better.

James Patten replied:
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There will be a similar arrangement to this tank as that pictured by Dave.  There's a flapper valve inside the tank which will be lifted by a rope or chain pulled by the fireman from the outside.  That will start the water going.  For now we're using a shutoff valve that Zack installed previously which would normally only be used in emergencies.

Boy did that tank sweat these last couple of days.  The inside of the tower was damp from it.

Firemen will have to listen carefully when filling up.  The sound changes once the water nears the top of the locomotive's tank.

Steve Klare replied:
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That's the really neat thing about a museum like WW&F, you guys are relearning lost arts like this one.

Until somebody living in present times actually does it, it's all just theory.

Joe Fox replied:
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Exactly. By being on the steam crew, you can truely respect the firemen and engineers that used to run any size or gauge of steam engine. It is awsome to be on steam crew, and being able to get a great since on what other engineers and firemen went through on the original railroad. The tank is just another link to the past, even though it is a replica, it is a great thing to have, especially now that filling time doesn't take very long. That old fire hose just took forever.

Joe

Dave Olszewski replied:
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Hi Steward,

I forgot to ask you if did you paint a coat of primer on new doors at water tank. Allen got two gallon cans of primer for water tank. I hope you paint a coat of primer on them before  paint green on it. It is better to have it or paint will peel and will look bad.

The new paint on new wood on opened car, #103 peeled because it did not have primer. It was new last Fall. Did you see it. It is at bottom of roof?

Dave

Dave Olszewski replied:
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Hi Everyone,

I got email from Dwight about not even with shingle on pump shed. Fred and I worked on it during hot weather. I was working on shingles at bottom of wall. Fred cutted many shingles for angle. I told him to wait until I finish with them at bottom first. But he cutted many and put two layes of shingles on angle at bottom of wall before I finish with row of shingle. So it was not even so I put third layes of them on two layes of shingle. It was too thick I was going to and remove all two layes of them and put one lay of them on it but Zach did it. I put one lay of them on angle on other side when Fred was away. Thank to Zach for redo it.

Dave
Ed Lecuyer
Moderator, WW&F Forum