Author Topic: Cripple creek Bagnal 0-4-4-0T  (Read 6206 times)

Robert Hale

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Cripple creek Bagnal 0-4-4-0T
« on: August 02, 2008, 12:39:21 PM »
Is this locomotive operational? This would be a great loco to restore as Bagnal's are rare anymore.
Rob (new handle, my old name was lost)

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Glenn Christensen

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Re: Cripple creek Bagnal 0-4-4-0T
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2008, 08:19:53 PM »
Is this locomotive operational? This would be a great loco to restore as Bagnal's are rare anymore.
Rob (new handle, my old name was lost)

Hi Rob,

Before I moved from Colorado Springs to Georgia, I spent a fair amount of time up at the CC&V and got to know Jim Birminghan pretty well.  As of when I moved back east about 6 years ago, Jim had just started taking the Bagnall apart for what promises to be a LONG restoration effort.  Since the project began I think Jim's priorities were probably: 1) Keeping the operation viable, 2) Keeping the current fleet operational, and somewhere further down the list - Restoring the Bagnall.

I'm sure he's made some progress since then, but I honestly don't know how much.  The Bagnall Meyer design is a pretty complex bag of tricks and added onto that is the fact that the locomotives as a class were known to have some steaming issues.  This is in part due to the marine-style boiler they have.  Its important to note that the 30" gauge example of the class, now at the Welshpool & Llanfair, has moved around quite a bit over the past few decades and has yet to turn a wheel under her own power.

Still, I have to agree with you and I know Jim does too.  That's why he hasn't sold her.

In the meantime, the CC&V has a DANDY little O&K 0-4-4-0 that sees quite a bit of use up in Pikes Peak country.  She's a HONEY!  You'll have to check her out.


Best Regards,
Glenn
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 08:50:41 AM by Ed Lecuyer »

Robert Hale

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Re: Cripple creek Bagnal 0-4-4-0T
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2008, 02:03:09 PM »
I read about the meter gauge Bagnall in England and read the history about the loco. I am interested in why a marine type boiler (round firebox) does not steam as good as a "loco" type boiler with a box type firebox. The report said that if they converted it to burn oil it would steam better and that hand firing the Bagnall was difficult on coal.
Do you know where there are some good drawings for the Bagnall-Meyer 0-4-4-0T?
I am really interested in the boiler and how it was built.
Robert

Dylan Lambert

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Re: Cripple creek Bagnal 0-4-4-0T
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2013, 01:34:00 PM »
Out of curiosity, has anyone heard of any updates on the CC&V's Bagnall? I'm a bit curious, as I can't seem to find anything.

Nick Griffiths

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Re: Cripple creek Bagnal 0-4-4-0T
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2013, 04:51:51 PM »
I read about the meter gauge Bagnall in England and read the history about the loco. I am interested in why a marine type boiler (round firebox) does not steam as good as a "loco" type boiler with a box type firebox. The report said that if they converted it to burn oil it would steam better and that hand firing the Bagnall was difficult on coal.
Do you know where there are some good drawings for the Bagnall-Meyer 0-4-4-0T?
I am really interested in the boiler and how it was built.
Robert


"Monarch," the Welshpool & Llanfair Railway's Bagnall Meyer was acquired from the Bowater's paper mills railway at Sittingbourne in Kent in 1966 in a well worn state.  AIUI at Sittingbourne the loco was intended to do the job of two smaller locos, making one crew "redundant."  As a result it was deeply unpopular and seriously abused so that it would fail, needing the two small locos and their crews in its place.  The tubes and flues had to be welded into the firebox tubeplate to overcome leakage.  For many years the wheelsets it arrived with sat in the grass along the Welshpool's RoW - they were so worn they'd become double flanged.  I was told that drivers (sorry, Engineers) would just let it slip, and slip, and slip... trashing the tyres and motion brasses.

The inner firebox is a drum, approximately 2ft dia and 6ft long, the grate about 4ft 6in/5ft long sitting across the diameter inside it, with a firewall creating a combustion chamber beyond it.  The boiler has, IIRC, an eight element superheater.  Firing requires quite a knack - a powerful shot is needed to project the coal to the front of the fire without hitting the firebox crown, but not so powerful that you throw over the firewall and block several rows of tubes.  There is a very limited space for primary air, which quickly fills up with ash.  There isn't much room to get a swing on the shovel without cracking your knuckles on the bunker.  It was thought by many that oil firing was the solution.

It was restored to service and ran the 1976 and 1977 operating seasons with some success.  I spent a week as a trainee fireman on it in 1977, and found it shy for steam - there were several elements missing, plus problems with the drafting which made it very challenging to fire.  When the W&L put a newly restored conventional loco into service in 1978 Monarch was consigned to the sidings, without its problems really being sorted out.  It was later sold to a consortium of people involved with the Ffestiniog Railway who had plans for oil firing and cutting it down to fit the The FfR's loading gauge, but for various reasons this never happened.

Nick