MODERATORS NOTE:
Halloween Trains has been converted from the pre-July 2008 WW&F Discussion Forum.
Some formatting may have been removed or modified from the original postings that appear quoted in this topic.
Information contained within this post may be superseded by more recent postings and conversations.
Allan Fisher wrote:The Wiscasset Student Council has agreed to supply students for set up, scary people, and take down for this year's Halloween trains. They will be setting up after school on Wednesday & Thursday, Oct 18th & 19. We will need WW&F volunteers to supervise, and on the nights that the trains run - to see to their safety.
Publicity will be in local papers and flers distributed to local schools. Wiscasset High Student Council will receive equal billing and share proceeds with the WW&F.
John McNamara replied:According to last year's Nov/Dec newsletter, we had 474 passengers on Friday night and 758 passengers on Saturday night. Each night we ran eight trains between 4 and 8 using a 10-3-8-320 consist. Yes, for Saturday night that means almost 100 passengers per train and roughly a train every 30 minutes! I assume from the last line of Allen's message that we are once again going to send out 2500 flyers via the schools plus the publicity in the local papers. With the additional involvement of the high school students, it seems likely that we may have even more people this year than last!
Things to consider:
1. We probably should not run-around, as that takes too much time. Further, it means equipment moves in the dark amongst dense crowds, which is more dangerous than our old custom of backing one way.
2. We may need to consider how to sell tickets to so many people - i.e. crowd control in the Museum Store may be a problem. Should we sell tickets from a table in the station doorway or out the station window?
3. We will need at least two volunteer traffic directors in reflective vests, plus possibly a paid police detail.
4. We may need another green house.
5. We might want to have some way of easily identifying volunteers in a crowd - buy some white WW&F hats for this purpose? This is both for our own convenience and to have some way of conveying authority in herding the crowds. At least we should request all volunteers to wear their gray hats.
6. We will need to have staff assisting people embarking and disembarking at Sheepscot. I assume that we will not allow people on or off at Alna Center due to time, poor lighting, etc.
7. I notice that amongst the people thanked last year were grade crossing guards. I expect that Trask is probably the only place this is required, although the rebuilding of the Averill Road probably means that there should be someone there too.
8. This is plainly an "all hands on deck" event, especially for night-qualified train crew.
All I can think of at the moment, but additions are certianly welcome.
-John
wwfmuseum replied:John,
Absolutely correct that we should not run around the train. That would take too much time for us to do.
Jason and I are already on the job of thinking about how we're going to handle the two nights. I think two trains are in order - one that goes out with a full load of people while the other one unloads and loads up. Once the first train returns and takes the siding, the full train heads out. That should help with crowd control.
Dana Deering replied:Ok, here is a wild suggestion that I am just putting out here for consideration. Instead of running two trains how about running two locomotives? Here's what I mean: #10 starts out on the north end of the passenger train while 52 sits on the siding at Sheepscot. 10 pulls the train to AC and runs around up there. 10 pulls the train back to Sheepscot and sits while passengers debark and others board. 52 meanwhile runs up the siding and comes down and couples to the north end of the train. 10 is uncoupled, the train pulls out. 10 moves to the siding for servicing, etc, and 52 goes to AC and repeats the process. Just a thought that wouid allow us to have an engine pulling all the time, since I personally feel that pulling is safer than pushing.
Dana
Wayne Laepple replied:Dana's idea has merit, but why not keep the operation totally simple? Run a single train pull-pull.
No. 52 pulls the train north to Alan Center, with no. 10 following the train a hundre yards behind. At Alna Center, no. 10 couples to the rear of the train, and no. 52 cuts away. No. 10 and the train goes south, with no. 52 following a hundred yards behind.
At Sheepscot, the same routine takes place in reverse. That way, there are no switches to be thrown or misaligned, no danger to the crowds and fewer opportunities for screw-ups by anyone.
John McNamara replied:While always a great fan of #52, I'm not convinced that it has the speed necessary to be a part of the Halloween operation. To move 200 people per hour, which is what we're talking here, we need to move a full train over the line round trip every 30 minutes.
While it is true that 10 requires some servicing time between runs, we've been pretty successful adding the necessary water and coal while the passengers are unloading and reloading.
We have never proved very speedy at coupling, uncloupling, switching, etc. To achieve the maximum number of passengers moved per hour, there should be none of those operations whatever. Further, all crowd handling should be done at the Sheepscot platform, as it is high-level and well-lit.
"Move 'em on, take 'em along, bring 'em back, unload 'em, repeat." Unfortunately, our model for this evening is not classic WW&F, it's the subway!
wwfmuseum replied:FYI I have moved this topic to the Event Planning area.
James P.
Dana Deering replied:With all due respect "we" have not been what I would call successful in servicing 10 appropriately in the time we have been given lately. especially with the 45 minute schedule and the run arounds (which I think are great because pulling in both directions is much safer!). Ask some of the steam crews how it goes. You are on the rush and there is not time to water completely, oil completely, and get lunch unless there is an annulled run. I thought my idea would give the steam crew time to service 10 and not have to rush. Haste leads to accidents and I see one coming in the near future if we don't make allowances for time. When I am running the steam locomotive under my license I am responsible for the safe operation of that boiler and for the safety of those around it. Anyway, I will leave it to those in charge to decide, I just wanted to put in my 2 cents worth, with this caveat: regardless of the schedule, regardless of the number of passengers who may be waiting, if I feel I need more time to tend the locomotive and boiler safely, then I will have no choice but to take it.
Steve Zuppa replied:Could you run the train pull/pull without uncoupling? Northbound, pull with 52 with 10 in neutral and vice-versa. You'd still have to service 10 in Sheepscot with the time allowed for detraining and boarding passengers but at least there would be no coupling moves while people are getting on and off,a practice we avoid during regular operations by clearing the train from the platform between runs.Just a thought.
Steve
Steve Zuppa replied:Also, what is our likely consist? 3(no brakes),8(no brakes) 118(brakes but possibly cold or wet) 320(brakes but no visibility). We may very well reach the point where we can't handle the crowds effeciently.We should have a plan "b" for that possibility, as well.
Steve
ps. I suppose we could use 118 and 320 for their braking power only and not seat passengers on them.
wwfmuseum replied:Jason has developed an operating plan for Halloween over the last week, and will be there tomorrow to discuss it with people.
Coach 3 will hopefully have brakes by Halloween.
Stephen Hussar replied:no comment
John McNamara replied:Comments deleted (no longer applicable)
Allan Fisher replied:Zack is hoping to have Car 103 ready for Halloween - he was working on it today - and Dave Hart was scrapping the floor in preparation for painting it.
Allan Fisher replied:There is another way top solve our problem -double the fare to $4.00 instead of the $3.00 fare we were thinking of for this year. This will keep a lot of the big families away, and solve our capacity problem while probably keeping the same or higher gross revenue (which we are going to split with the Wiscasset High Student Council)
Bill Reidy replied:Hi Allan,
Funny you should mention the fare -- I was looking at the Halloween PDF flyer earlier this evening and thinking $2.00 was low.
Once the 2006 fare has been decided, please let me know and I'll update the flyer.
Thanks,
Bill
Wayne Laepple replied:Why not extend the hours to 9 p.m., thus allowing at least one more train?
Steve Zuppa replied:Extending the runs to 9 o'clock probably wouldn't be too hard on Friday but remember that Saturday is a regular operating day. I think that, after running all day, having the volunteers run until 9(and not getting the train put away until almost 10) is a lot to ask. Besides, the biggest crush of passengers comes between 5:30 and 7:30 anyway.
Steve
Steve Smith replied:How about having No. 10 on the north end of the train and No. 52 on the south end? Wouldn't that overcome John's concern about No. 52 not having enough speed? Ishoud think No. 52 would have no problem heading the train southbound.No. 10's ash pan could be cleaned at Alna Center. Or would it be possible to erect a temporary staging on the east side of the main line at Sheepscot so the fireman could safely get to the ash pan?
Dave Olszewski replied:Steve's last message is good idea. How fast can No 52 go? I know No #10 go about 15 mph. I thought it would take about 10 minute for they to clean up ash then move it again. How often do they have to fill up water and clean ash? Every other trip?
What about first train run to end of track then stop at siding at Alna Station and wait for second train to run pass Alna Station to end of track. Then they return to Sheepscot. So they may have less waiting in car for other train to pass.
Dave
Steve Smith replied:I forgot about the need to oil around on No. 10. The proposed staging could be long enough to allow oiling around, but there would also be the problem of light. Perhaps a volunteer could stand by to assist the engineer or fireman by holding a big flashlight. I believe the firehose is long enough so that it could easily reach the proposed servicing location.
Ira Schreiber replied:Allan has the right idea. raise the fare to $4.00(Still a bargain). This may reduce the numbers but definitely increase the revenue.
It is certainly worth the try and makes alot of sense.
Remember, if we have only 10 passengers and they pay$100.00 each, we have $1,000.00.
The real test is # of paying passengers, not the # of bodies.
Ira(Simple Economics)Schreiber
Josh Botting replied:Do not forget this weeknd is halloween trains....
Allan Fisher replied:Here is the final accounting for this years Halloween Trains.
Friday, October 19th - 150 paid passengers, 3 free 3 or under, 9 pass riders
Ticket revenue - $600.00
Store Sales - 93.00
Donations - 39.93
Saturday, October 20th - 14 Regular Passengers (before Halloween trains)
562 Paid Special train passengers, 52 free 3 or
under, 11 pass riders
Ticket Revenue - $2334.00
Store Sales - $ 193.87
Donations - - $ 229.42
For the two nights there were the following expenses paid out from revenue -
Gas for Operations - $ 47.81
Candles & lighters - $ 13.17
Food for volunteers -$324.21
