Author Topic: Safety Item for Wire Rope in Hoisting Applications  (Read 12538 times)

Steve Smith

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Safety Item for Wire Rope in Hoisting Applications
« on: March 18, 2013, 11:29:34 PM »
Great post, Paul. Cry away……good therapy! So what if the beer tastes a little salty.

After your confessional I'm moved to post a personal embarrassment that might be worthwhile to other members for its warning about use of wire rope.

After some thefts of personal-property items left outdoors in the town we lived in, I decided to keep our Grumman 15-ft canoe inside the garage, but because space was tight I suspended it from the ceiling using two transverse 2 x 4s, each hung from two 1/8"dia steel wire ropes. At that diameter they're usually called "airplane wire," I think. I mounted a hand-cranked winch on one wall and ran the ropes from the winch through pulleys to four appropriate points, from which the ropes dropped to the 2 x 4s.

The canoe weighed about 85 lb, and from a tensile load standpoint my system was VERY conservative. I don't recall the actual ratio of total working load for the four ropes to the weight of the canoe, but do remember clearly that I played it extremely safe on that score.

My mistake—which nearly killed me—was to use tiny pulleys. Each had a sheave diameter of about ½". I was totally ignorant of safe design for such a system and hence did not know that with a rope diameter/sheave diameter ratio of only 4, no matter HOW conservative the application was regarding LOAD, I was condemning the WIRES in the strands of the ropes to be bent so badly in passing over the sheaves that their yield limit would be exceeded with EVERY PASSAGE over a sheave!

As one who had an ME degree, even though I didn't stick with engineering, I should have had the sense to read up on safe practice with wire rope before making that lashup, but didn't. That was embarrassment No. 1.

No. 2 was not reacting to the warning the poor tortured wires tried to give me. Every time when the canoe was lowered to the racks on our car, and thus the load removed from the ropes, they immediately assumed helical shape. "Oh, look at the pretty barber poles," I said to myself. Not even a glimmer of thought as to WHY they were helical.

Embarrassment No. 3—the worst of all. I failed to react when after a few uses of the system, wires in the strands began to BREAK! Existing vocabulary is not adequate…..some new word needs to be invented to convey my dumbness with that one.

So came the day when one wire too many gave up the ghost as I lowered the canoe. Thank goodness I wasn't trying to put it on the car, just getting it out of the way of the garage door opener to fix a problem. Lordy oh lordy, what a grand and glorious C-L-A-A-A-N-G that Grumman aluminum canoe made when it hit the concrete floor! This only about a second after my (obviously empty) cranium had been right under the end of the canoe. You know…where the side profile comes to sort of a POINT.

What a great headline it would have been for The Berkshire Eagle: "Pointy canoe meets pointy head in Richmond…..gene pool improved."

The recommended sheave diameter/rope diameter ratios in Machinery's Handbook vary with type of rope, application, etc., but my rough rule of thumb now is 20--not that I'm likely to design any future system!!! After my close call, I started noticing the sheave diameters relative to wire rope size on various cranes. Although I made no measurements, my impression was that the sheave diameters were AT LEAST 20 times rope diameter and perhaps more.

I went to our local hardware store in Camden last year to see if the wire rope section had any information for buyers about safe design, and noted a sign warning people not to use wire rope for suspending loads……period. Soon after I was at the Home Depot outlet in Rockland, and saw NO application information of any kind at the wire rope section.

 


Dave Buczkowski

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Re: Downeast Thunder Railroad (18
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2013, 08:49:37 AM »
Steve;
So my day has not been a total loss yet as I have learned something. Not being a mechanical engineer it never would have occured to me that the diameter of a pully relative to the diameter of a wire rope was so important. Thanks for the humorous lesson. I'll be sure to point that out to Bill next time I see him trying to hoist something heavy with a 1/4" pulley in Bay 3.
Dave

Steve Smith

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Safety Item for Wire Rope in Hoisting Applications
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2013, 06:00:29 PM »
Intro

Early today I posted to the Downeast Thunder Railroad thread about a near-death experience caused by a wire-rope NO-NO I designed into a hoisting rig for a canoe. It was pretty much off topic in that thread, but I hope that a serious treatment here will have value as a safety matter that could relate to certain WW&F Museum projects.

It's a recommendation for safe use of the rope, but is in addition to the usual rules such as choosing rope with a safe working load for the application, avoiding rope abrasion, checking rope regularly for any wire breakage, etc.

It concerns any SHEAVES in the design, such as in a pulley, on a boom, in hoisting works….whatever:

Safety Item:

Consult wire-manufacturer guidelines, or a design handbook such as Machinery's Handbook, and make the design conform to the recommended minimum ratio of sheave diameter to rope diameter.

When wire ropes pass back and forth over sheaves, the wires in the strands bend. This is normal, and has to do with the 3D geometry of the situation. The ratios of wire diameter to strand- and rope-diameter influence the recommendations, I suspect, because ropes of  hemp, Nylon, etc. with  filaments far finer than wires are much more tolerant of low sheave dia./rope dia. ratios.

In any case, the ratios in the safety recommendations are chosen to hold the maximum bending stress in the wires BELOW THE ELASTIC LIMIT. (My hunch: probably WELL below.)

Doubtless most of us have needed to break off a wire and had no cutter, but we were able to bend the wire back and forth till it broke. In such a case we repeatedly and rapidly stressed the metal beyond its elastic limit—first on one side of the wire and then the other--and we seldom took long to break the wire unless it was very ductile. To PREVENT bending to that extent is the purpose of the recommendations re. ratio of sheave diameter to rope diameter.
 
The chance of wire rope failure, even in an application where all recommendations are followed, rises with continued use, and I presume that is why there are rules for how long wire ropes on elevators, cranes, etc. can be used before replacement is mandatory or at least strongly recommended. But that's a matter of fatigue failure, less likely to concern the Museum since our frequency and duration of wire rope use is likely to be relatively low compared with typical commercial situations.




Steve Smith

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Re: Downeast Thunder Railroad (18
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2013, 06:09:10 PM »
Quote
bent so badly in passing over the sheaves that their yield limit would be exceeded

I misspoke, or miswrote: "Yield limit" should have been "elastic limit." Besides, I don't believe there is a term "yield limit." (There IS a term "yield point," but it isn't relevant here.)

I've just posted what I hope will be a more valuable treatment of the subject for Forum members in the "Volunteers" section.

Dwight Winkley

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Re: Safety Item for Wire Rope in Hoisting Applications
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2013, 06:52:29 PM »
Attn; Steve Smith   Mike Fox has installed new wire rope on Ichabod.

dwight

Mike Fox

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Re: Safety Item for Wire Rope in Hoisting Applications
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2013, 07:00:08 PM »
Also tied in with this, the size of the sheave will also translate to a resistance ratio when lifting or pulling. For instance, if you use the smallest sheave allowed with your cable, the amount of effort needed to lift an object would be greater than using a larger sheave. When building ROW MOW 1, I used pulleys that are about 8 times larger than the cable.

Ichabod was re-roped with the same diameter cable as designed. 5/16 cable around 5 or 6 inch sheaves.

Right now, I think this is all we have for cable, accept for the occasional come-a-long. The rest are chains.


But the chains can be as dangerous. As we use them, we should be watching for wear. The chain falls are the most used chains we have, and they get the least amount of wear, mostly by design.
Mike
Doing way too much to list...

Hansel Fardon

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Re: Downeast Thunder Railroad (18
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2013, 07:02:21 PM »
Steve! Don't forget "YARD limit"! Lol! ;D

Ed Lecuyer

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Re: Safety Item for Wire Rope in Hoisting Applications
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2013, 07:14:03 PM »
[Mod Note]
This discussion has been split and recombined from the Downeast Thunder RR thread. It is also part of the "General" discussion.
Ed Lecuyer
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Steve Smith

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Re: Safety Item for Wire Rope in Hoisting Applications
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2013, 10:04:13 PM »
Quote
Steve! Don't forget "YARD limit"! Lol!

Hansel, I've mislaid the book with that definition so I'm just going from memory, but doesn't it read something like "Yard Limit: That limit such that, if the poor old yard engine has to keep running all the way out to it and then all the way back, in two shakes of a lambs tail it suffers fatigue failure"?

Steve Smith

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Re: Safety Item for Wire Rope in Hoisting Applications
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2013, 09:02:35 AM »
Mike, the cable diameter and sheave diameters you have posted for Ichabod give sheave dia./rope dia. ratios of 8 and 9.6, respectively.

Here' a quote from Machinery's Handbook 22nd Edition on the subject:

"Sheaves and drums should be as large as possible to obtain maximum rope life. However, factors such as the need for lightweight equipment for easy transport and use at high speeds may call for relatively small sheaves with consequent sacrifice in rope life in the interests of overall economy. No hard and fast rules can be laid down for any particular rope if the utmost in economical performance is to be obtained."

I guess that last sentence gives a company bean counter and an OSHA inspector plenty of excuse to have a heated argument, eh?

Machinery's gives the following from Federal Spec. RR-R-517a on D/d ratios recommended for maximum rope life (D = sheave diameter and d = rope diameter, and the ropes are specified by two figures: strands per rope first, wires per strand second):

6 x 7, D/d = 72;  6 x 19 and  6 x 25, D/d = 45;  6 x 29, D/d = 30;  6 x 37, D/d =27;  8 x 19, D/d=31.

The pattern seems to be: the more wires per strand, the lower the D/d ratio requirement for maximum life. My guess is it's because finer diameter wires can better accommodate the rope distortion encountered as the rope bends to the curvature of the sheave.

I don't know the strands/wires data for the rope you put on Ichabod, Mike, but the D/d ratios of only 8 or 9.6   suggest relatively short rope life. However, the Museum isn't likely to use the crane at anywhere near the rate typical for a commercial operation.

Hey, with Ichabod, maybe the crane company bean counter had just KO'd the OSHA inspector and was now looking over the crane designer's shoulder with a menacing look, saying, "You wanna keep your job pal….you better design this baby for maximum economy!"

In any case, frequent checking of the rope for broken wires seems a very good idea to me (especially after my harrowing canoe hoist lesson).

Machinery's also has some text about the importance of a proper groove cross sectional profile in the sheave. It should be such that the sheave neither squeezes the rope nor allows the rope to flatten.

Full disclosure: The 22nd edition of Machinery's, quoted above, is old old old…..copyright 1985. 

 
 



 

Jonathan St.Mary

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Re: Safety Item for Wire Rope in Hoisting Applications
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2013, 09:20:18 AM »
FYI:

16 to 1 P.D. ratio required for hoisting blocks by ANSI B30.5 (Crawler, Locomotive
and Truck Cranes) and ANSI B30.15 (Mobile Hydraulic Cranes). ANSI B30.5 is
required by OSHA regulations as printed in Federal Register on June 24 and 27,
1974

24 to 1 P.D. ratio required for running sheaves with 6 x 37 rope by CMAA
Specification No. 70 (Electric Overhead Traveling Cranes).

I haven't checked for anything more recent.

See also:

http://www.slingchoker.com/sling2/crosby/vii/vii177.htm

Steve Smith

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Re: Safety Item for Wire Rope in Hoisting Applications
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2013, 01:48:06 PM »
Thanks, Jonathan.....nice to have some figures no so ancient as the ones I posted.

At the risk of seeming obsessed with the subject, I'll mention what I measured for the wire cables that connect our garage door with each of the big counterbalance coil springs. The cable measures 3/32" dia and the sheaves are approximately 2-1/2' dia. So D/d ratio is about 27 for them. After about 8 yrs service the cables still look good--no broken wire ends sticking out.

Stewart "Start" Rhine

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Re: Safety Item for Wire Rope in Hoisting Applications
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2013, 04:07:05 PM »
I had 40+ years of use from my garage door cables and sheaves at my home in Maryland.  Each Fall I'd apply grease or some heavy oil to the rope and sheaves.  It kept the rope wear at a minimum and the doors ran a bit quieter when opening.   

Josh Botting

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Re: Safety Item for Wire Rope in Hoisting Applications
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2013, 06:05:46 PM »
So this is a topic near and dear to my heart....

Jonathan is correct, the ASME B30.  series deal with all things lifted.  I work with these daily.

The D/d ratio applies to anything which the wires wrap around, hooks, shackles, pins,  bolts, ect.....

The D/d ratio is set by the manufacturer of any wire, strap, or chain.  For wires and straps it is largely determined by the size and configuration of the wires which are braided. 

The wires experience some funky stress states when bending around tight radiuses.  Rather than being in just tension, they bend, localy.

Further, when they break, its generally un good......

Which is why wires for lifting usually have high safety factors, like 5:1 or so........