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Messages - John Scott

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Museum Discussion / Re: A WW&F Christmas
« on: December 24, 2018, 07:48:12 PM »
Lovely video, Eric. Thank you and Merry Christmas to you and all at WW&F.

General Discussion / Re: Testing Notifications
« on: December 12, 2018, 04:39:29 PM »
No problems in Australia!

Work and Events / Re: Vacuum Brakes on the WW&F
« on: December 12, 2018, 05:53:22 AM »
I would like to express appreciation to those who have taken so much trouble to provide detailed information on the plans for continuous automatic vacuum braking. It is certainly understood that the tremendous input by all to The Bridge project and to going Down the Mountain has diverted attention from all sorts of other programs, including that of vacuum brakes. I am sure that many readers will be fascinated by the detail and impressed by the careful approach that has now been described.

In particular, I applaud the decisions to follow the Eames patent 241333 as closely as practicable and to keep the automatic brake separate from the Eames Driver Brake fitted to loco 9. It is gratifying to know that means have been found to make the car installations virtually identical to the straight vacuum (non-automatic) brake equipment that was originally fitted.

The Engineer’s Valve sounds interesting. I believe that there might be useful comment that could be made in respect of that, but I doubt whether this is really the place for so much detail. An aspect for consideration is the provision of a means for direct venting of the brake pipe in the event of an emergency.

It is difficult, indeed, to assist from afar without giving rise to perceptions of resentment for interference. One is not able to meet face to face with key players to form relationships of mutual respect and trust. It does need to be recognised that there is a distinction between considered professional advice and personal opinion!

As to end cocks, the diagram, below, shows a London Midland and Scottish Railway design that addresses all of the reservations that have been put forward in respect of vacuum brake hose couplings. Definitely, as world-wide experience has shown, there is no valid reason for end cocks to be fitted in a continuous automatic vacuum brake system and there are several important reasons against it. Where there is a will there is a way!

It is very interesting to know that loco 9 came with European vacuum hose couplings. That justifies the support for a degree of modernisation that I expressed in Reply #19, above.

If a Schematic Diagram of the continuous automatic vacuum brake system is developed, it would be most interesting to see it posted, here. Thought will be needed about safety issues such as the provision of a Conductor’s Valve in each car.

Again, thank you for a most welcome update on the vacuum brake project.

Volunteers / Re: December 2018 Work Reports
« on: December 12, 2018, 02:11:45 AM »
Nice to see so many famous people identified in the photographs of this thread.

Work and Events / Re: Vacuum Brakes on the WW&F
« on: December 10, 2018, 08:39:31 AM »
Dummy coupling.

Work and Events / Re: Vacuum Brakes on the WW&F
« on: December 10, 2018, 08:37:53 AM »
I don't have a photograph handy, but here are some diagrams from a Google search.

Work and Events / Re: Vacuum Brakes on the WW&F
« on: December 09, 2018, 12:30:15 AM »
Joe, angle cocks are not needed and are not used on continuous automatic vacuum brake systems because the hose at each end of a train is placed on a receptacle and held there by the vacuum. In between, the hoses are coupled together between cars.

It is the presence of cocks in air brake systems, necessary to retain air pressure, that introduces the danger of inadvertently closed cocks that would interrupt the continuity of the air brake system throughout a train. Introducing unnecessary cocks in a continuous vacuum brake system would introduce the same danger. Without continuity a train may have insufficient braking power to prevent a runaway.

I believe that there is not a direct precedent for the continuous automatic brake that is envisaged for the WW&F, however there is an admirable expressed intention to make it as Eames-like as possible. That means we need to be open to all relevant and applicable Eames precedents, otherwise it will not be worth the bother. For loco 9 the issue is particularly tricky, given its great historical significance and the wonderful work that has been carried out to get it to where it is, now.

Personally, I think the British-style hose couplings and acorn receptacles are much better than the Eames flap-type couplings and, accordingly, it would be reasonable to upgrade according to the British model. Hypothetically, the original WW&F management could easily have followed that path, based on their experience. Even so, it might be rather intriguing, given our museum status, to try to see whether the Eames connectors could be made to work!

The introduction of cocks has no reasonable precedent and it would be unwise.

Work and Events / Re: Vacuum Brakes on the WW&F
« on: December 07, 2018, 06:05:00 AM »
Exactly so. That plug was called an acorn (in Britain) because of its shape. Loco 303, in the linked image, has the British style coupling arrangement. Nothing wrong with it, but it is not Eames. The advantage of the acorn is that it retains the hose in position as well as sealing off the vacuum.

Our loco 9 has the Eames driver brake in largely original form (except no muffler). The Eames installation on loco 9 is an important piece of technological heritage that would be found in very few places, elsewhere.

The idea of fitting continuous vacuum brakes to WWF trains will necessarily take us away from the original configuration of the rolling stock not only because it was not there, in the beginning, but also because of the need to interoperate with the existing equipment on loco 9. I am sure that our people are well aware and sensitive to all that but I have failed, so far, to have any meaningful input to the development of the proposed continuous vacuum brake system. We are told, however (Board minutes, etc.) that development work is in progress.

The introduction of close-able cocks is a safety hazard, apart from being unnecessary and non-original. The Eames coupling had a hinged flap-type stopper to retain the vacuum. These flaps swung aside when hoses were coupled.

The Eames control valve, in the cab, was highly idiosyncratic - a most interesting piece of equipment. I have no idea whether any attempt is being made to be true to Eames in respect of that. I do suspect that rather modern valving is being hidden away beneath the cab floor.

My desire is always that an observant and knowledgeable visitor to the museum will learn the truth. We don't want people being deceived.

Work and Events / Re: Vacuum Brakes on the WW&F
« on: December 07, 2018, 03:31:04 AM »
Vacuum brakes are very sensitive and satisfactory for short trains. In the case of the WWF Railway, there is a need to preserve historical integrity by following the lead of Eames: his approach was distinctive and not quite the same as the British approach.

Volunteers / Re: December 2018 Work Reports
« on: December 07, 2018, 03:25:50 AM »
On the subject of locomotive coal, there is no point in paying good money for good coal and then mixing with dirt to make clinker. A concrete pad for the front-end losing of coal needs to be a high priority.

Volunteers / Re: November 2018 Work Report
« on: November 17, 2018, 08:00:37 PM »
Is the WW&F standard guard rail gap 1 3/4 inches?

Work and Events / Re: Mountain Extension - Official Work Thread
« on: October 07, 2018, 06:48:55 AM »
Like Alain, and from even further away, I am watching every inch of the on-site progress and rejoicing in the knowledge of what you all are achieving up there, in the Maine woods.

Work and Events / Re: Trout Brook Bridge - Official Work Thread
« on: September 01, 2018, 07:26:36 AM »

Work and Events / Re: Mountain Extension - Official Work Thread
« on: August 18, 2018, 09:15:06 PM »
I rather like the look of that plate rolling machine.

Boothbay Railway Village / Re: Restoration of SD Warren #2
« on: August 18, 2018, 09:03:09 PM »
Thanks for the pics. A nice-looking restoration. A silly whistle, though - dangerous if it were to snap off!

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