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Messages - Robert Hale

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Work and Events / Re: WW&F No. 53 - Official Work Thread
« on: April 13, 2022, 07:35:09 AM »
Ah! Outside frame trucks, can be narrowed easier than conventional ones I would think.

The limiting factor will be the traction motor width. Will be an interesting project.

Work and Events / Re: What If? Design Project: 1925-1940 2ft Diesel
« on: October 24, 2019, 09:18:41 AM »
Since this is just a dream thread I'll contribute some thoughts. A diesel should be eight wheeled and should be either diesel hydraulic or diesel electric drive.  The weight on each truck should be around 22,000 pounds for a total of 44,000 pounds , and it should have a large enough power unit to give it 11,000 pounds tractive effort. That is about twice the tractive effort that #9 is supposed to have and about the same #6 was supposed to have had, with similar axel loading. This would allow the diesel to rescue any stranded trains and return with them.
Now one possiblity is to buy trucks from the Australian cane locomotives instead of the whole locomotive and use a new gen set made here. The frame could be shop built. I would favor a boxcab body, as it would be easy to build, roomy, and typical of early diesels.
Mike Nix

I was going down this exact path but there seems to be too much push-back from people that don't like the idea at all. Diesel-hydraulic is possible, but diesel-electric is out of the question due to the costs involved to do such a loco. I had suggested somewhere that my design was to be 20-25 tons, 300-450hp (twin engine) using HD pickup truck drivelines with a custom center gearbox and lower running gear. Max speed might have been around 25-30mph given the gear reduction of the drivetrain (10:1). Off the shelf parts for ease of maintenance and spares. Was going to try to make it look like an early 1940's 44 tonner just a bit smaller or like the DD51 Japanese locomotive. I can throw up some rough drawings of the mechanicals if they are wanted.


Work and Events / Re: What If? Design Project: 1925-1940 2ft Diesel
« on: October 11, 2019, 05:53:15 AM »
I'm not working on this project anymore. I shelved it and I will let the museum find the path forward concerning this issue.


Work and Events / Re: What If? Design Project: 1925-1940 2ft Diesel
« on: June 06, 2019, 08:36:02 AM »
I'll clarify why I thought up this idea for the line in the first place. I want to help out the best I can from a distance, and I saw a need for a locomotive (diesel) for the railroad as an "insurance" policy for the line. Thus the "what if" title. You know if the WW&F continued operations into the late 30s' and into the 40's they might have looked into a diesel locomotive to offset operating downtime, or for a more reliable locomotive with reduced operating costs (fuel, labor ect). This is a plausible path that might have been gone down if the line had survived.
Fast forward to today, and I am always awe struck on how authentic the line really is, down to the details of clothing and others things to roll back the hands of time for visitors. On the other hand the museum needs to be able to function so having a large diesel locomotive that can handle MOW trains, plow duty, and as emergency standby (rescue) if needed is a good idea IMO. I can save wear and tear on the current steam locomotives, but does not prohibit the use of steam for certain occasions like a planned "plow/flanger" special or other operations. I thought that designing a locomotive from scratch would be interesting, but really is a challenge. If a suitable locomotive like the one shown here could be bought and brought in and modified, then that might be a better way. As always though it is what the museum wants to do and what the board votes on that will be the path forward. I can only make suggestions based on my limited experience.


Work and Events / Re: What If? Design Project: 1925-1940 2ft Diesel
« on: June 06, 2019, 05:03:33 AM »
Can you even begin to imagine the miles and miles of red tape that would be wrapped around a locomotive built in a communist state being imported into this country?

What about all the stuff that comes from China? They are a communist state still today. My guess is that if you were to import a locomotive like that to the states it will most likely be easier to do than importing a car from Japan. And it might actually fit in a container too.


Work and Events / Re: What If? Design Project: 1925-1940 2ft Diesel
« on: June 05, 2019, 06:40:36 PM »
A lot of wise things already said; you will certainly need a "road" diesel in the long run (historic or not), hydraulic with pump/motor (hydrostatic as we call it) is not a way forward, rebuilding proven technology is probably better than scratch building, diesel electric is difficult in this gauge.

Just to give a slightly different perspective. We had the same need when we lengthened our line from 2 to 7 miles 10 years ago.
We bought a Russian built narrow gauge diesel from Ukraine and had it regauged, re-engined and rebuilt in Estonia (No. 21 Gaivoron).
Sister locos have also been bought to Finland and Norway, and two more powerful TU7 to Breacon Mountain RR in Wales.

This Russian standard diesel type TU4 for 750 mm (29.5") was the original design for well over 11 000 (!) locos built so far and still being built.
It is a shaft driven diesel hydraulic (torque converter) and most of all, the trucks are of a very simple but yet of a beautiful and extremely well functioning design. They are designed to run equally well over logging railroads where the rails have been nailed to logs placed directly on the untouched ground as well over more than 100 miles long roads in 30 mph (with sleeper and restaurant cars!).

The different variants have been built with weight and power spanning from 15 tons 120 hp to 26 tons 400 hp with the same trucks.
A few of the variants:

We had to narrow down the cab only and took the opportunity to design it with one driving position in each direction. Our volunteers love the loco (although it has had a few teething troubles in the parts that were not rebuilt) and our passengers accept it as a "real" loco when the fire hazard is too great to run steam.

Can you share some photos or drawings of the running gear?

Work and Events / Re: What If? Design Project: 1925-1940 2ft Diesel
« on: June 03, 2019, 10:10:31 AM »
I'll calculate the speed of the gearsets and see what comes out. Yes, I will do my best to have a good drawing/concept once I finish.


I put my planning on the back burner due to work and some medical issues (food allergy) but now I am back at working on the diesel design. From what I can see and find a diesel-hydraulic (automatic transmission) set up with mechanical running gear is the cheapest course to chart. Twin 6BT Cummins engines (2 valve with the mechanical pump) and the automatic transmissions out of the Dodge 250/350 trucks. Parts are easy to get. Center transmission is a custom part (fabbed and welded steel) with off the shelf ring and pinions and a custom reversing bottom (like how an outboard motor shifts). I just finished the rough design of the truck gearboxes since finding split seals was a challenge, they will also use ring and pinions of the shelf (Dana 80) and be fabbed steel. I just need to email the retailer on the ability of running the gears both ways in the axle gearboxes.
From what I gather the speed limit on the line is 15mph so the way this thing will be geared that will be close to topping out. I also plan on having it run with air compressors and disk brakes. Still working out other systems to run both engines simultaneously and yes it will have a cab heater and maybe A/C.
I'll be teaching myself my older CAD program that I have and try to get all this down on paper and digitally. Bear with me since I do work full time and am doing my best.


Work and Events / Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
« on: April 15, 2019, 08:15:01 AM »

Let me get this straight, we are trying to convince a Frenchman, a country where food taste has been taken to ultimate limits, that "fast food" is actually food?

Tim Horton's FTW. Nuclear hot coffee and doughnuts for days.

Work and Events / Re: Tie Changer Machine - Official Work Thread
« on: March 20, 2019, 08:14:37 AM »
Looks like a counter-weight is needed.

Work and Events / Re: Coach 8 Seating
« on: February 27, 2019, 10:53:50 AM »
The amount of puns in this thread is enough to bottle up and sell. Packaged popular puns pleasing plucky patrons. :o

Work and Events / Re: Mountain Extension - Official Work Thread
« on: February 04, 2019, 11:43:35 AM »
Terry, we enjoy working with each other on multiple projects. And always have a sense of accomplishment at the end of the day. We all enjoy working with each other, and usually lots of laughs getting things done.
That is what I need in my life now, a sense of accomplishment. I think that is what allot of people need in their lives, rather than the rat race at a "job". Thank you for showing people what real work with real results can get you, along with the friendships and memories that last a lifetime.


Work and Events / Re: Trout Brook Bridge - Official Work Thread
« on: September 25, 2018, 08:41:49 AM »
I would suggest a couple of trail cams at the bridge site, at least 1 in a very visable spot and another well hidden. I'm not suggesting anything, only to offer peace of mind for the museum that if anything were to ever happen at the bridge is captured. Unfortunately in this day and age this is a must, and I will admit I do not know the area there on how the people are, so my applogies in advance.

Work and Events / Re: Trout Brook Bridge - Official Work Thread
« on: September 20, 2018, 11:06:03 AM »
What type of fire prevention/extinguishing equiptment will be placed at the bridge?

Work and Events / Re: Trout Brook Bridge - Official Work Thread
« on: September 20, 2018, 06:06:56 AM »
I think this will be the best spot on the railroad for photos for years to come. Great work everyone thus far.

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