W.W.&F. Discussion Forum

The Maine Narrow Gauges (Historic & Preserved) => Archives (Other Maine 2ft) => Topic started by: Ed Lecuyer on January 08, 2009, 10:36:36 PM

Title: Perleys Mills Photo???
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on January 08, 2009, 10:36:36 PM
MODERATORS NOTE:
Perleys Mills Photo??? has been converted from the pre-July 2008 WW&F Discussion Forum.
Some formatting may have been removed or modified from the original postings that appear quoted in this topic.
Information contained within this post may be superseded by more recent postings and conversations.

Mike Fox wrote:
Quote
I submit here a photo for you to ponder on as I have. I bought this on Ebay. It is an L.P.Cornwall photo of an unknown location. After much study, I decided to scan and post here for comment. I think this is Perleys Mills. Can anyone verify this or tell me it is someplace else. The reason I think it is P{erleys is from the long tangent of track in front of the loco. But the switch goes the wrong way (at Perleys the siding went to the oposite side of the station from the main line) for this to be the location. At any rate, the sun angle leads me to believe this train is headed south. Any Ideas??
Mike
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-11/1225939/PerleysMillsR.JPG)

BM1455 replied:
Quote
Mike,
Note the flag holder for a flag stop that is sticking out from the building.  This is the style of holder that the B&M and MCRR used on their stations and flag stop shelters.  (Often cast with "B&M" enitials in it.)  There is a place for a flag that slips into a tobe like mount, and a small hook on the bottom of the tube for a lantern.  Since the B&SR was owned by the MCRR for a while it makes perfect sense to have them used on that line and the SR&RL too.  Was Perley"s a station or a flag stop?  If not, maybe it is some other station or flag stop shelter.

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
Eric,
If I recall correcly, Perleys was an agency station. It had freight and I also think with Dana discovering the quarry some time ago somewhat nearby, this is where all the stones for the abuttments were loaded onto cars.
Thanks for the info on the flag holder. I guessed this was a Mid to late 30's photo, probably a railfan special. So that is well after the MEC ownership. Now that I think of it though, Perleys was gone before the railroad ended.
So now I really need help. Could this have been South Bridgton?
Mike

James Patten replied:
Quote
That fellow mid-way down the nearest car is leaning out the window, either something in his hand or grabbing something near the track.  What the heck is it?

BM1455 replied:
Quote
James,
It is a tennis racket!  No joke.  The picture appears in Two feet to the Lakes and it is a bit more clear in print.  Still can't figure out where it is.

bperch replied:
Quote
Looks like a tennis racket to me.
Bern

Glenn Christensen replied:
Quote
Hi Guys,
I always thought the photo was taken at West Sebago after they moved the station up from Hancock Pond.  I'm pretty sure that by the time the photo was taken, Perleys Mills station had been razed.
Best Regards,
Glenn

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
Sounds logical Glenn. I am awaiting Dana's input as that is his neck of the woods. If that is the case, this would be looking south as the station was on the west side of the tracks. And then the post near the gentleman preparing to board might actually be a crossing sign for the Swamp Road.
Mike

Glenn Christensen replied:
Quote
Ditto on the southbound.  You could be right in the post.
Post-Harrison closure, I seem to recall the only remaining way stations were at West Sebago, Ingalls Rd., and (maybe) South Bridgton.  If its not WS it *might be SB, but the lay of the land and the relationship between the station and the road doesn't look right for IR.
Still I could be all wet ... corrections are welcome.
Best Regards,
Glenn

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
Ingalls road heading south has a slight curve to the west. I know it isn't there for sure. I do question South Bridgton. I have never found the actuall station site so that might be it. I still think you might be onto something with it being West Sebago. The lay of the land is right. But looking at the original, the post actually looks like a switch stand.  Notice the handle pointing to the guys bottom. If it is a switch, then it is one that is on a siding. Very overgrown at that. The mainline switch would then be under the engine.
I can tell you one thing from the building, it has clapboards for siding. Not shingles.
And this photo appears in TFTTL on page 136.  The original is better quality but this might be better than my scan.
Mike

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
OK. found a potential other angle to this photo. Compare this to the one on the upper right of pg. 175 in TFTTL. And unless they run around the train and change the location of every car, then the station was on the East side of the tracks, and the view is looking North in the photo I submitted.
Mike

Glenn Christensen replied:
Quote
Hi Mike,
I looked at the photo using MS Office Picture Manager at a higher resolution.  That *could* be a switch stand in front of the post and it *could* be a switch handle pointing out.  But my recollection is that the throw handles swing down when out of use.  The handle *could* be jammed in the up position.
It also looks like it might be resting on ties, although if it is, they don't appear to line up with the long tie ends that appear under the middle of the second coach (which happens to be W&Q #3).  The "switch stand" also appears to be too far from the track.  It is possible the switch was salvaged - like the south switch on the Hancock Tank passing siding was in later years - probably for reuse at another location.  If this is the case, the stand may have just been left behind and the old one at the "new" site reused.  The mainline also seens to rise pretty steeply after the road crossing.  I don't recall a noticeable grade south of WS station, that would have been visible from the photo view.  And stand, while possibly moved would be on the proper side given the siding at SB.
I'm beginning to think South Bridgton might be the possible location.
Best Regards,
Glenn

Dana Deering replied:
Quote
Hi Guys,
The lay of the land is wrong for West Sebago (there was a cut just to the north of the West Sebago station and if this was a southbound train the station is on the wrong side of the tracks)  and the building is too big.  I think it is South Bridgton.  Perley's Mills Station was torn down in 1913 and the lumber was used to add a stall to the Bridgton engine house for #7.  This photo was taken much later.  And that is definitely a tennis racket!

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
How about looking North from W. Sebago Dana. That could be the long fill across the bog and the far end of the photo is the spot where #5 went down over (would be on the right side of the tracks from what you told me). This photo appears in TFTTL, pg. 136 with another angle on page 175. The caption for the second photo says the train just dropped a load of campers off at W. Sebago and is headed for Bridgton. Is that where that photo is or is that one wrong too? From the angle on pg. 175, your camp would be through the woods to the right, correct?
Mike

Stephen Hussar replied:
Quote
We should set aside a half-hour during some upcoming Saturday to view Gus Pratt's Bridgton footage. It's still unedited and silent, but I've got a vhs tape of the raw footage we could watch...maybe it could shed some light on some of these questions?

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
Sounds good to me Stephen.
Mike

Bill Sample replied:
Quote
Is there any chance this photo may have been printed backwards from the negative many years ago?  That can really lead to confusion!  I can't see any lettering on the coach to help disprove this.  Just a long shot guess.......

Dana Deering replied:
Quote
Mike and All,
I looked in TFTTL last night and looked at both photos, this one and the one on page 175 and I don't think either of them is West Sebago.  However, notice the flanger sign to the north (?) of the station that appears in both photos.   Now, if the train is headed north in the photo on 175 then the station is on the wrong side of the tracks for it to be in its last location, which was the corner of Swamp Road and Hancock Pond Road on the west side.  And where is Swamp Road in this photo?  Not there.  If this is Sebago Station in its original location then where is the cut that began right at the north corner of the station and which is still there today?  Where is the siding that went behind the station?  The lay of the land is all wrong for either the original or the last location for the station BUT, my grandmother worked at Camp Wabanaki in the 30's and she used to tell me that the train stopped almost directly across from the entrance to the Camp, to let the campers off, which was just a short walk across the road from the tracks (which nearly paralleled Hancock Pond Road at that point).  I wonder if the station building was moved twice?  Once to a point opposite the camp entrance and later down to the Swamp Road?  Wabanaki had a horse stable across Swamp Road from the last West Sebago station location and used the old station for some purpose.  Maybe they used it as a tack room?  Who knows?  I think Stephen has a good idea and I've been anxiously awaiting Gus' B&H footage in hopes that it will answer some of my questions, including this one about West Sebago.

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
I have studied the original picture over and over. And the only thing I can come up with is this. If this is West Sebago, the picture is then looking North. I would say somewhere around mid day, judging by the shadows.
But this would also mean the station was once on the east side of the tracks. The utility poles, from what we found else where in our first field trip, were mainly on the East side of the tracks.
If that is the case, this station will have been quite mobile, having moved atleast 3 times in it's lifetime, the last being next to the Swamp Road on the little knoll.
But now I have reviewed a part of a film that has an over the line trip from Bridgton Junction to Bridgton. They come up to a station they called West Sebago. It was on the East side just after crossing a road. Possibly the Swamp Road.
One sideline to watching this movie clip. I noticed at the time of the filming, the switch at the south end of the passing siding at Hancock Pond had been partially removed. Namely the frog and what would have been the west rail to the siding and the west point.
Mike

Dana Deering replied:
Quote
Ok, so I need to get a life, but:  I took a real close look at the Al Hale Film and slowed it down frame by frame and I think that it is the West Sebago Station.  I watched the approach to the station and the bus was going over a fill and I am pretty sure I caught a glimpse of the brook that the RR crosses just before it reaches Swamp Road.  Also, the flanger sign appears in the film.  So I guess the Sebago Station was moved at least two times.  Once from the shore of Hancock Pond to the east side of Swamp Road and then to the west side up on the knoll.  Your photo is of the W. Sebago station after all, Mike.
Dana

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
Dana, Thanks. I thought I was nuts looking and looking to find which station that was. Now I can write West Sebago, East side of the tracks, North of Swamp Road on it. This was fun. Shall we discuss another? I think I can find one.
Mike

Dana Deering replied:
Quote
Yes, it was fun.  And now I know that the two photos in the book and the film all show West Sebago, and both trains in the photos were headed north.  As far as other stations go, I found the tracing of the Twin Lake Station location that I made from one of the track maps at the Bridgton Historical Society and the station was right about where we thought it was the day we went on the first field trip.  East side of the tracks.