W.W.&F. Discussion Forum

Worldwide Narrow Gauges => Two Footers outside of the US => Topic started by: Dillon rail enthusiast Trinh on December 22, 2020, 06:17:10 PM

Title: Porter Replica No.7 Ginger
Post by: Dillon rail enthusiast Trinh on December 22, 2020, 06:17:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98gvbQyVr54&t=8s

Here's footage of the 2018 built locomotive by RASS, located at Narita Dream Farm in Narita Chiba Prefecture Japan. My favorite steam locomotive, hope you guys visit Japan next year to see this in operation.
Title: Re: Porter Replica No.7 Ginger
Post by: John McNamara on December 23, 2020, 12:15:44 AM
I have been to Japan three times in the last decade (2012, 2016, 2018) and would love to go again. I was hoping for 2021, but that may be the year of the delayed Tokyo Olympics, which would be too busy.
Title: Re: Porter Replica No.7 Ginger
Post by: Dillon rail enthusiast Trinh on December 23, 2020, 02:03:50 AM
If you visit Japan again in the near future, make sure you visited Narita Dream Farm line.
I have been to Japan three times in the last decade (2012, 2016, 2018) and would love to go again. I was hoping for 2021, but that may be the year of the delayed Tokyo Olympics, which would be too busy.

Title: Re: Porter Replica No.7 Ginger
Post by: James Temple on December 23, 2020, 05:47:07 AM
Now that's a neat little kettle. Eccentrics on the front axle, I notice, and it appears to have a historic coach to pull.

If you look at "Ann Marie," an original Porter running over here in the states, you can see where the builder judiciously scaled things down to arrive at a unit that fit their purposes (and, presumably, budget): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpTl7mlkn9I
Title: Re: Porter Replica No.7 Ginger
Post by: Dillon rail enthusiast Trinh on December 23, 2020, 11:46:40 AM
Now that's a neat little kettle. Eccentrics on the front axle, I notice, and it appears to have a historic coach to pull.

If you look at "Ann Marie," an original Porter running over here in the states, you can see where the builder judiciously scaled things down to arrive at a unit that fit their purposes (and, presumably, budget): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpTl7mlkn9I

Doesn't all steam locomotives have Eccentrics?
Title: Re: Porter Replica No.7 Ginger
Post by: Benjamin Richards on December 23, 2020, 01:43:07 PM
Doesn't all steam locomotives have Eccentrics?

Yes, but I think the emphasis was "on the front axle". I'm not sure whether that's especially uncommon, but it does seem like there's a lot of mechanism jammed in that small space.

EDIT: In this case it also appears the firebox would preclude any inside valve gear on the rear axle, which may have forced their hand.
Title: Re: Porter Replica No.7 Ginger
Post by: Dillon rail enthusiast Trinh on December 23, 2020, 02:31:47 PM
Doesn't all steam locomotives have Eccentrics?

Yes, but I think the emphasis was "on the front axle". I'm not sure whether that's especially uncommon, but it does seem like there's a lot of mechanism jammed in that small space.

EDIT: In this case it also appears the firebox would preclude any inside valve gear on the rear axle, which may have forced their hand.

The locomotive was built differently then traditionally, she was a replica of a 3'6 gauge porter that used to operate in Japan back then.
I forgot to post this, but here's a link of a picture diary of the construction, the locomotive cost 40 million yen to built:
http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~makibalg/porter_001.html
Title: Re: Porter Replica No.7 Ginger
Post by: John McNamara on December 23, 2020, 10:17:29 PM
40 million yen is about $386,000 at today's conversion rate.
Title: Re: Porter Replica No.7 Ginger
Post by: Dillon rail enthusiast Trinh on December 23, 2020, 11:16:46 PM
40 million yen is about $386,000 at today's conversion rate.

Pretty much.
Title: Re: Porter Replica No.7 Ginger
Post by: Philip Marshall on December 23, 2020, 11:30:08 PM
40 million yen is about $386,000 at today's conversion rate.

Which sounds roughly equivalent to the £300,000 price tag I remember seeing advertised maybe 7 or 8 years ago for a new-build replica two-foot gauge Hunslet 0-4-0T, I believe by some associates of the Statfold Barn Railway in the UK. (I've always wondered how many they actually sold, if any.)
Title: Re: Porter Replica No.7 Ginger
Post by: Dillon rail enthusiast Trinh on December 24, 2020, 12:44:27 AM
40 million yen is about $386,000 at today's conversion rate.

Which sounds roughly equivalent to the £300,000 price tag I remember seeing advertised maybe 7 or 8 years ago for a new-build replica two-foot gauge Hunslet 0-4-0T, I believe by some associates of the Statfold Barn Railway in the UK. (I've always wondered how many they actually sold, if any.)
350k is not a bad price for a two foot gauge 0-4-0t.
Title: Re: Porter Replica No.7 Ginger
Post by: James Temple on December 24, 2020, 05:43:44 AM
I've very rarely seen locomotives whose eccentrics (or whatever mechanism drives the valve gear) aren't mounted on the same axle as the main rod. I always assumed that was to avoid a possible 'accretion of error' situation potentially caused by brasses needing adjustment, loose driver boxes, that sort of thing.

As Benjamin points out, it's quite possible they're following the original Porter practice, and for the same reasons. I've never had the chance to examine one of those wonderful little 8-tonners in person and find out.
Title: Re: Porter Replica No.7 Ginger
Post by: John Scott on December 24, 2020, 07:21:22 AM
Is that a version of Hackworth valve gear, perhaps?
Title: Re: Porter Replica No.7 Ginger
Post by: Dillon rail enthusiast Trinh on December 24, 2020, 01:08:37 PM
I've very rarely seen locomotives whose eccentrics (or whatever mechanism drives the valve gear) aren't mounted on the same axle as the main rod. I always assumed that was to avoid a possible 'accretion of error' situation potentially caused by brasses needing adjustment, loose driver boxes, that sort of thing.

As Benjamin points out, it's quite possible they're following the original Porter practice, and for the same reasons. I've never had the chance to examine one of those wonderful little 8-tonners in person and find out.
http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~makibalg/porter_001.html
Here's the picture diary of the construction, this might answer your question, you don't need to understand Japanese, but the photos are nice.
Title: Re: Porter Replica No.7 Ginger
Post by: Roger Cole on December 24, 2020, 02:30:32 PM
Back in 1969, my Navy enlistment was coming to an end and I was being sent stateside from the Island of Guam.  Our plane stopped in Japan for refueling & dropping off/picking up more military folks.  Just after takeoff, I looked out the window and took this shot, the last I'd ever see of Japan.
Title: Re: Porter Replica No.7 Ginger
Post by: Dillon rail enthusiast Trinh on December 24, 2020, 02:33:51 PM
Back in 1969, my Navy enlistment was coming to an end and I was being sent stateside from the Island of Guam.  Our plane stopped in Japan for refueling & dropping off/picking up more military folks.  Just after takeoff, I looked out the window and took this shot, the last I'd ever see of Japan.
It could be JNR steam?
Title: Re: Porter Replica No.7 Ginger
Post by: Roger Cole on December 24, 2020, 03:01:21 PM
Pretty sure that was JNR steam.  A railfan friend and I had spent a week in Japan earlier that year photographing the rail networks there.  This shot was taken during a snowstorm at Ishikawacho Station as best I remember from 51 years ago.  It's hard to see but a worker is filling a switchpot to ensure the switch doesn't freeze up.
Title: Re: Porter Replica No.7 Ginger
Post by: James Temple on December 25, 2020, 06:50:20 AM
Is that a version of Hackworth valve gear, perhaps?

Nailed it, John. The link Dillon provided specifically states the valve gear is Hackworth (and the pictures prove it).

I'm not aware of Hackworth being used on any locos built in the U.S., and I have no evidence Porter ever used it. I understand it's easier to machine than Stephenson link, making it an attractive option for modern builders. That page also has a link to the Friends of the Tanana Valley Railroad, suggesting this build was inspired by their three-foot-gauge #1.