W.W.&F. Discussion Forum

WW&F Railway Museum Discussion => Work and Events => Topic started by: Ted Miles on November 23, 2018, 06:10:25 PM

Title: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ted Miles on November 23, 2018, 06:10:25 PM
I see in the meeting minutes that the B&SR #50 box car was traded to the Maine Locomotive and Machine Works for the B&SR #34 flat car (B&SR Shop, 1889).

I assume that it went to the Edaville Railroad after leaving Bridgton in 1945. They converted the Bridgton flat cars to open Excursion cars like the Edaville 2001. Does it have a known Edaville number?

Will these changes be removed to make it back into a flat car?  I imagine that the addional  flat car will be very useful in ballast operations next spring.

Will the rail gantry stay on top of the WW&F #126 flat car?

Any news would be most welcome!
Ted Miles, long distance member   
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on November 23, 2018, 06:39:09 PM
Hi Ted.

The flat car is essentially a kit. New wood was purchased, as well as some replacement steel, but never put together. The original car is still together, so will have to be taken apart to salvage what can be, then rebuilt.

The plan being discussed is make this car have a plug in the center of the car. This will be a removable door basically, so the tank can be placed on the car after is is repaired, or removed and the plug put back in to use it as a flat car.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on November 23, 2018, 10:06:45 PM
Can we be creative and design a second plug that when inserted can be controlled so as to allow ballast to be dumped between the rails when used as a ballast car?
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on November 24, 2018, 01:02:17 AM
Bill, there is talk of designing a system to direct stone into the "tank hole" to allow ease of shoveling stone into the center. Great in theory however in reality you will only be ballasting 2-3 ties at a time which will be kind of slow. In which case the discussion of a full hopper car buiot to the original but never built plans has also come up. Flat car sides are still in the works to allpw ballast to be dumped in the middle. Unfortunately there is simply not enough help to execute these ideas or designs so they fall on back burners.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on November 24, 2018, 07:52:05 PM
On the other hand, since we will complete ballasting track in another couple or three years, perhaps it does not make any sense to use resources to build a dedicated ballast hopper car. Once the main line to Route 218 and the associated sidings are completed, there really won't be a need for a "production" ballast car.  It seems to me we can get along using the tried and true methods, although I think having removable center trap doors would streamline ballasting into the gauge, and if the car was moving at a slow pace and some sort of screeding device was employed to scrape the ballast off the rails, dropping material down into the gauge would work okay. Historically, a tie shoved along by the trailing truck of the ballast car worked just fine.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on November 24, 2018, 09:27:09 PM
We still have potential to continue to expand, so to say a hopper car will not be needed after a few years is short sighted. Also not to mention a hopper car can also come in handy for surfacing the railroad like we did this past spring.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dwight Winkley on November 24, 2018, 11:08:28 PM
Ted, A spot out back in the woods has been graded to store the rail gantry.

Flat car 34 will receive the B&SR fuel oil tank. This is the largest of the two B&SR tanks. It will carry water for fire protection.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on November 25, 2018, 08:48:32 AM
I like the various ideas for #34 but the tank should be the #1 priority.  Having it for extra seating would also be great.  But I would much rather see a dedicated Portland ballast car instead of jury-rigging a flat car to be a ballast car.  Let's just "do it right" the first time and build the ballast car.  Enuf said...…….
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on November 25, 2018, 11:05:21 AM
When will the rebuilding of #34 begin?

Jeff S.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on November 25, 2018, 02:56:31 PM
Work will begin sometime in or before January. The plan is to have the car built as flat car for the Spring Work Weekend, and capable of serving as the flat for the tank as well.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on November 29, 2018, 10:20:42 AM
From the perspective of how we raise and expend funds, I believe that building a hopper car for ballasting would not be the best use of our resources at present. Just the purchase of wheels alone would run in the area of $14,000-$16,000, not to mention the steel for the axles and truck frames, the timbers for the car frame, etc.  At least in the short run, raising and spending that kind of money does not make sense. Once we reach Route 218, we need to turn our energies and attention to completing coach 9, building the roundhouse and the coal shed, and planning for another structure to house rolling stock, not to mention the construction of the pavilion. In the interim, we can explore how to expand our railway and perhaps consider building a ballast car. And while I think the tank car is a good idea, there is a lot of work involved in repairing the tank so it will hold water.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike the Choochoo Nix on November 29, 2018, 12:52:32 PM
, there is a lot of work involved in repairing the tank so it will hold water.l
Since the tank will only be used for water, has any though been given to just having the inside sprayed with a heavy fiberglass coating with just enough internal repair to hold the fiberglass. I have a small rusted out steel riveted tank I want to use for water and want the rustic look and I have thought of doing that with mine although mine is much smaller and has an open end so mine would be easier to do.
Mike Nix
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on November 29, 2018, 01:11:23 PM
The repairs that need to be made can't be skipped. The integrity of the tank could be compromised. The plan was to put original looking patches on (riveted) and then line it with a bed liner type material, like Rhino Liner or Line-X, creating the seal and protecting the tank from rust, and keepung the water from turning rusty.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl G. Soderstrom on November 29, 2018, 05:49:01 PM
Is there a way into the tank once it is repaired (or while).

Or will you put a person hole in the bottom where it is not obvious using capture nuts and bolts?
Button head - hex drive - bolts look like rivets.   
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dwight Winkley on November 29, 2018, 06:24:37 PM
Tank dome is open on top. Dome lid is missing,
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl G. Soderstrom on November 30, 2018, 12:57:24 AM
Tanks

I doubt i would fit though.

Will Jack Sprat have to be hired?   ;D
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dwight Winkley on November 30, 2018, 11:16:34 AM
Don't think anyone would fit in the opening at the present time. There is hardware in the way that controls the bottom outlet valve.


Maybe someone could take some photo's that shows the tank in it's present condition.  Tanks bottom has many holes. Some from rust and some are puncture hole.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stephen Lennox on November 30, 2018, 11:23:43 AM
I have a variety of photo's of the tank taken last year. contact me off line if you like.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Fred Morse on November 30, 2018, 11:43:25 AM
If we put that tank on a flat car what would the nickname for that be. TANKTOP?
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on November 30, 2018, 02:38:47 PM
Like the name Fred! 
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Richard Cavalloro on November 30, 2018, 07:21:12 PM
Unless someone has a confined space certificate I don't think anyone is going in the tank.  I have one but with my back I won't be crawling anywhere for a while  LOL
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Philip Marshall on December 01, 2018, 03:57:19 AM
Here is a photo of the top of the dome, showing the maker's mark. Harrisburg tanks are pretty rare, so it has a significance even beyond the narrow gauge realm. I believe it was originally an early standard gauge tank that was already old by the time it arrived on the B&SR.

https://www.midcontinent.org/rollingstock/builders/harrisburg1.htm (https://www.midcontinent.org/rollingstock/builders/harrisburg1.htm)

Compare our tank with the drawing of the 1875 Harrisburg tank car built for the PRR shown in the article above.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stephen Piwowarski on December 02, 2018, 10:13:38 AM
Fascinating! It would be great if we could establish this through further research. When did the B&SR purchase the tank?
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Reidy on December 02, 2018, 10:15:27 AM
Some photos of the tank taken yesterday -- December 1st.

Note the gash below the dome.
(https://i.imgur.com/oHj4dRm.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/dX7kaSz.jpg)

Note the corrosion along the bottom of the tank.
(https://i.imgur.com/ka5wqoS.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/JUyZnpM.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/XKkUdp9.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/cam1SiG.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/K6Uv3Fj.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/of2OzTz.jpg)
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on December 02, 2018, 10:52:06 AM
Thanks for the photos, Bill.

Jeff S.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on December 02, 2018, 01:50:34 PM
Repairing the tank in a period-appropriate manner, i.e. hot riveting, will be a somewhat difficult proposition since someone would have to be inside to buck the rivets. It would be so much easier to just weld patches over the gash and the rusted-out spot, but....  And who knows the condition of the interior baffles after all these years.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on December 02, 2018, 02:11:52 PM
I would be willing to bet that following a detailed inspection that we will have to replace several sections of the shell as well as the baffles.  Now this is not such a bad thing as we can then open up the tank in sections and work piece by piece.  It would also not require a person inside for riveting as most sections could be done with our deep throat riveter.  Or in the big scheme of things, maybe we should just replace the whole tank but keep the dome original.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on December 02, 2018, 07:03:36 PM
Looking at the last picture, it appears that the tank already has a patch near the handrail.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on December 02, 2018, 07:27:11 PM
That repair was done prior to the use of the tank on the B&SR, as seen in some photos.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Philip Marshall on December 02, 2018, 09:54:08 PM
When did the B&SR purchase the tank?

According to Two Feet to the Lakes, the tank cars entered service in 1901 and 1920, but I'm confused as to which is which. (The text indicates the smaller 3,000 gallon tank came first and was put on flatcar No. 21 and then later No. 14, with the larger 5,000 gallon arriving second and placed on flatcar No. 22, but the H.T. Crittenden drawings in the back of the book show the larger tank on flatcar No. 14 and the smaller tank on No. 22, so I don't know what's correct.) We have the larger 5,000 gallon tank, whichever one that was.

Question: Have we measured the tank to confirm it will actually fit on the flatcar? B&SR flat No. 34 is supposed to have been a short 26' car, whereas flat No. 22 was 28' and Nos. 14 and 21 were both 30'.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on December 02, 2018, 10:39:13 PM
This tank is the large one, originally on car 21. When that car was no longer strong enough, it was scrapped and the tank put on Flat 14. Car 22 had the smaller tank up until it's time at Edaville, when car 22 suffered the same issue as 21. The smaller tank was in better shape so the large tank was removed from car 14 and the smaller tank put on car 14. As it is today. Enough to make it tough to keep track??
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on December 03, 2018, 09:35:08 AM
So if the plan is to use the tank car for fire protection, and it's a 5,000-gallon tank, that means the car would have to be capable of supporting 40,000 pounds of water. That's 20 tons! That's a lot of weight on a wooden car just sitting around waiting.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on December 03, 2018, 10:01:04 AM
I meant to dig up the info on the car, but IF I remember, the tank we have is only 3000 gallon.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on December 03, 2018, 11:26:01 AM
Wayne brings up a good point.  Even if we have the 3,000 gal tank, that is 24,000 pounds or 12 tons.  I seem to remember someone saying that the plan was to put a smaller plastic tank inside the existing tank so the capacity would be more manageable and internal corrosion wouldn't be a problem.

Of course if we go with the internal tank plastic spray idea, we don't have to fill the tank either.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on December 03, 2018, 12:23:35 PM
Nothing says that you have to fill the tank, either, except a full tank will prevent any harmonic rock that a half full tank will produce.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on December 03, 2018, 12:44:23 PM
The interior baffles are supposed to reduce the sloshing, but in my experience, there is still a certain amount of surging of whatever is inside the tank. On one railroad I worked on, we handled tank cars of cooking oils, and at the place where we would set out the loads, when we stopped, we had to set the air brakes before uncoupling, or the sloshing would move the cars enough to recouple them. In fact, even while under way, the surging would occasionally give you a kick in the pants.

While I think keeping water in the car for fire protection is a good idea, the water would have to be treated with some sort of biocide to prevent the growth of algae which could clog the outlet and/or any pump. And the car should be parked somewhere accessible without having to switch out other equipment before taking it to where it is needed most.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on December 03, 2018, 03:17:55 PM
Nothing says that you have to fill the tank, either, except a full tank will prevent any harmonic rock that a half full tank will produce.
The interior baffles are supposed to reduce the sloshing, but in my experience, there is still a certain amount of surging of whatever is inside the tank.... 
... And the car should be parked somewhere accessible without having to switch out other equipment before taking it to where it is needed most.

Tanks guys for the information on sloshing.  I had forgotten about that issue in thanks.

I thought the plan was to park the tank car at the end of the runaround siding at TOM so it would be a water source located the furthermost from any road accessibility and not routinely blocked like so many of our other car parking spots.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on December 03, 2018, 03:32:08 PM
Well, if and when we have an operable sawmill and shingle mill, (steam powered hopefully), the tank car would be invaluable in providing water for the mill boiler and also for fire protection.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Kevin Kierstead on December 03, 2018, 03:49:04 PM
Would it be possible to add trailer jack setup to take standing weight load off car while parked on siding?
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on December 04, 2018, 10:50:32 AM
Coming from someone who handles many types of tanks, baffles help, however sloshing can be very violent when stopping. Especially when handling many tanks at a time. The sloshing typically settles out after 4-5 slams.

The plan is to reduce the tank capacity to keep the weight of the water the same as the weight of the oil, and fill the tank to the top to reduce sloshing.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike the Choochoo Nix on December 04, 2018, 11:16:48 AM
The plan is to reduce the tank capacity to keep the weight of the water the same as the weight of the oil, and fill the tank to the top to reduce sloshing.

Is the plan internal bulkheads on each end? I would think we would want the filler material on the ends or the top to keep the center of gravity low. Depending on the access with the baffles some inflatables might be easily done.
And I still think a Heavy coat of fiberglass inside over internal patchs, would work, Farm sprayer tanks are  made of 1/4 inch fiberglass with no outside support.
Mike Nix
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on December 04, 2018, 09:10:46 PM
The plan is to reduce the tank capacity to keep the weight of the water the same as the weight of the oil, and fill the tank to the top to reduce sloshing.

So at 6.4 pounds per gallon of oil that is about 19,200 pounds (9.6 tons) for a 3,000 Gal tank to 32,000 pounds  (16 tons)
for a 5,000 Gal tank, depending on what size tank we have.  About the weight Number 11 will work out to be I suspect.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Steve Smith on December 04, 2018, 11:05:04 PM
Bill, according to the McChesney & Kohler Volume 5 of Narrow Gauge in the Sheepscot Valley, No. 7's locomotive weight (light) was 28 tons, and so far as I know, No. 11 is to be replica of No. 7.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on December 04, 2018, 11:46:24 PM
Thanks Steve, good thing we are now using 56 and 60 pound rail.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on December 05, 2018, 02:56:48 PM
Car 34 was picked up this morning and brought back to Sheepscot.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/mount%20ext/IMG_8436.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/mount%20ext/IMG_8438.jpg)

No. 34 was built by the B&SR shops and the castings on the car including the couplers are marked B&SR.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/mount%20ext/IMG_8441.jpg)
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on December 05, 2018, 03:11:13 PM
Any trucks to go with the flatcar?

Jeff S.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on December 05, 2018, 08:51:42 PM
I thought this car was at MNG.  Looks like someone's back yard....
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: James Patten on December 05, 2018, 09:25:32 PM
The "back yard" is Boothbay Railway Village.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on December 05, 2018, 10:13:09 PM
In the Department of For What It's Worth, I suspect the B&SR tank cars carried more gasoline than fuel oil. After all, in pre-World War II America, most people heated their homes with coal, especially in more rural areas where gas lines did not run, and the refiners and wholesalers had not yet developed the fleets of trucks to deliver gasoline to service stations and dealers. But most people also had a car, which required gasoline. Down here in Pennsylvania, the Susquehanna River & Western, a narrow gauge line northwest of Harrisburg, had two tank cars, just like the B&SR. I am told that the two cars carried the same amount of gasoline as the standard gauge car that brought it to the interchange point.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on December 06, 2018, 12:10:55 AM
Interesting points Wayne.  What you said makes sense. 

Gas is 0.1 pounds per gallon lighter than oil. 

Sorry, but this weight pickiness comes from decades of being a pilot and doing weight and balance calculations, which is critical, not only for gross weight but also for center of lift and center of gravity in airplanes, not only at takeoff weight and Center of Gravity and but also landing weight and Center of Gravity can also be critical in some aircraft.  Fred and Link will understand this.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on December 06, 2018, 08:59:08 AM
Wayne,

Are they any photos of the SR&W tank cars, that you know of?

Jeff S.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on December 06, 2018, 11:07:51 PM
 Jeff, if you look at one end of the tank we have you’ll see a riveted bracket that is a support for a hand rail that goes around the tank. It’s not shown in the drawing from the manufacture. If you look at other pictures of other tank cars though you will see that a handrail that surrounds the tank.  I guess it’s possible the bracket was put on the tank but the handrail never was.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Holmes on December 06, 2018, 11:12:30 PM
I think he was asking for photos of the tanks cars in actual service.  Do they exist?
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on December 06, 2018, 11:29:53 PM
Any trucks to go with the flatcar?

Jeff S.

We got wheel sets with the car but will have to build trucks. The plan is to use the trucks from B&SR boxcar 56 to get the flatcar in operation for spring work weekend. When B&SR 56 is restored the Bridgton trucks under WW&F 126 will be used under 56 and 126 will get new common bolster trucks.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Philip Marshall on December 07, 2018, 01:02:48 AM
Actually, Jeff was asking about the Susquehanna River & Western (SR&W) tank cars Wayne mentioned, not the B&SR tank cars.

(But I thought the SR&W was standard gauge. Do you mean the Newport & Sherman's Valley, Wayne?)
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on December 07, 2018, 06:58:41 PM
Tank is 5000 gallons and Wayne is correct. It hauled "gasolene"
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on December 08, 2018, 08:14:44 PM
Jeff, in "Bells and Whistles in Old Perry," by Richard H. Steinmetz and Frederick A. Kramer, there is a photo of one of the two Newport & Shermans Valley tank cars on page 79.

And yes, Phillip, I did mean the Newport & Shermans Valley, not the Susquehanna River & Western. Brain fades happen to us old guys.

Incidentally, another car tank body was set up as a water tank for the locomotives at the west end of the N&SV after the original wooden tank rotted away. The concrete supports for the tank car still stand in New Germantown.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on December 09, 2018, 10:22:51 AM
Wayne,

I have that book, so I will take a look.

Jeff S.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on December 09, 2018, 11:26:42 AM
Wayne,

I have that book, so I will take a look.

Jeff S.
Jeff or Wayne,

Perhaps you can share the pix with us here?
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Carl G. Soderstrom on December 09, 2018, 05:13:14 PM
in MicroMark's Holiday 2018 Flyer on page 84
Is a model that looks a lot like the museum's tank.
Granted it is in "broad" (Standard) gauge - but it looks close.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ted Miles on December 10, 2018, 05:37:25 PM
Folks,
         i am very glad that people are giving serious thought to the B&SR tank. Assuming the date cast into the tank top 1873, is more or less correct for the time that the Foundry and Machinery Company made it for the Pennsylvania Railroad, that would make it the oldest artifact at the WW&F Museum.  The Antique Machinery web site says the firm existed from the early 1870s until at least 1911. They built lots of stationary steam engines. Both simple and compound.

Here is another piece of the puzzle; I have a picture of the tank car at the Edaville Railroad with the #40 on it. Maybe somebody just put the wrong number on it? B&SR #40 is the flanger, which is now also at the WW&F Museum. 

Ted Miles, WW&F Life Member
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on February 14, 2019, 09:14:15 AM
I've been seeing Zack's work on different threads and thought there was no car #34 board.  Looked around and finally found this.  For all those who love to see Zack's artistry, please post Flat #34 progress pics here so we don't have to go searching.  And "MR. Moderator", if not too much trouble, if you could pull Zack's progress photos from the various threads - there's like 5, it would be greatly appreciated.  thanx - Zack's Fan Club
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on March 03, 2019, 09:51:29 PM
By popular demand, here are some photos of the Flat Car 34 project that were posted in other threads:


Jan 26, 2019, by Mike Fox:
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0126191437_Burst01_zpsxr3eqoul.jpg)


Feb 2, 2019, by Bill "HWMNBN" Reidy:
(https://i.imgur.com/D8ES4Cg.jpg?1)


Feb 2, 2019, by Mike Fox:
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0202191544_zpswx59pyfg.jpg)


3 Photos - Feb 23, 2019, by Mike Fox:
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0223191529_zps6sta1nar.jpg)
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0223191529a_zps4albovrs.jpg)
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0223191529b_zpschppnbpp.jpg)



There may be other photos elsewhere on the Forum. There have been many published on our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/WWFRailway/ (https://www.facebook.com/WWFRailway/)
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on March 03, 2019, 10:28:14 PM
I apologize for not getting pictures from Saturday. Everyone had left early, so no need for a visit. I wanted to, but forgot.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on March 03, 2019, 10:56:58 PM
All the decking boards were cut and most were stacked at the north end of the car.  The area was cleaned / swept out and the roll of ice & water shield brought in to make seal caps for the stringers and sills.  Once the first set of caps went on, three deck boards were installed on the south end. 

There is a photo of the latest progress on Facebook.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Kevin Kierstead on March 04, 2019, 07:28:35 PM
How are the deck planks laid over the cross car brace rods and protruding bolt heads?
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on March 04, 2019, 07:51:12 PM
Thanks Ed for gathering pictures into one place.  Tried to add the decking picture from Facebook but could not make it small enough.  Can we do something about this silly 200k limit?
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Reidy on March 04, 2019, 09:06:36 PM
Here's Stewart's photo of the decking work.  Hope you don't mind, Stewart!

(https://i.imgur.com/LdjDKP2.jpg)
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on March 04, 2019, 09:10:17 PM
Thanks Bill!
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Graham Buxton on March 04, 2019, 09:13:45 PM
Tried to add the decking picture from Facebook but could not make it small enough.  Can we do something about this silly 200k limit?
One suggestion about that size limit is host the photos elsewhere, and just post a link here. That way the [large] photo doesn't take up an WWF  'server' resources, and if the right kind of link is chosen, individual forum reader's bandwidth usage is minimized as well. Each person who wishes to post a photo can use a photo host / account of with their own login.  My recommendation is to use a "free" account at Postimages.org
 (https://postimages.org/)
Postimages.org takes care of managing oversize image files, and can provide back to the user a variety of linking options.  The one that may  the best choice in most cases is the the Postimages "Thumbnail for forums" option, where a relatively small image is posted 'inline' in the thread, and clicking on that thumbnail image brings up a larger view with more detail (assuming the original photo was large enough).
For example, here is a "thumbnail" photo that is hosted at Postimage.org that I earlier used in a different WWF thread ...
(https://i.postimg.cc/zyNhYQ20/billy-fire.png) (https://postimg.cc/zyNhYQ20)

Since that is a "thumbnail", one can click the image to get a larger image with more detail, while those who have limited ISP bandwidth or aren't interested  in photo detail can skip over that option. FYI, here is the earlier thread with that photo in context: http://forum.wwfry.org/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=2687 (http://forum.wwfry.org/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=2687)

Note that Postimage.org accounts are "free", and once you upload a photo, all you need to do is copy/paste a link that they provide you into your WWF forum 'compose' message window.  Here is what the Postimage interface for that photo looks like after the photo has been uploaded(http://[url=https://i.postimg.cc/CL6zYmqN/wwf-Screenshot-from-2019-03-04-20-06-23.png(just]https://i.postimg.cc/CL6zYmqN/wwf-Screenshot-from-2019-03-04-20-06-23.png[/url]) just to show a different link option:
(https://i.postimg.cc/CL6zYmqN/wwf-Screenshot-from-2019-03-04-20-06-23.png)

 ... the above is what Postimage calls a "Direct link", so use of the  WWF forum "Insert Image" button is needed.   With the "Thumbnail for forums" option used in the first photo, no 'button' is needed, just post the Postimage link in with the text of your message.   Remember, Postimage.org accounts are free.  :)   

There certainly are other photo hosts out there - some "free" and some not.  I don't have any connection with Postimages.org other than as a satisfied user.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: James Patten on March 04, 2019, 09:39:21 PM
I concur with Graham's assessment, as overall master of our website resources.  Fortunately we are nowhere near our disk limit (raising the limit incurs raising the price), but every 200K image brings us a little closer to the limit.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Reidy on March 04, 2019, 09:44:43 PM
Thanks Graham.  I grabbed Stewart's photo from our Museum's Facebook page, uploaded it to my free imgur.com account, and provided a link from there. 

I don't understand imgur's long-term business model to maintain their online content, but their service has been very reliable for posting latest museum news photos to our forum the past couple of years.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on March 05, 2019, 01:20:40 PM
How are the deck planks laid over the cross car brace rods and protruding bolt heads?

Counter bore into the bottom of the decking a little more than the thickness of the head of the bolt, making it just far enough that the bolt is not pushing the plank up.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Kevin Kierstead on March 05, 2019, 08:20:03 PM
do the planks clear the rods the same way?
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on March 05, 2019, 09:43:00 PM
Where the rods interfere there is a groove cut in. Just enough for clearance.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on March 15, 2019, 11:10:05 PM
All the flatcar pictures I have taken up to the end of February.

Picking up the flatcar.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_8436.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_8438.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_8441.jpg)

The car barely survived loading in one piece onto the trailer but not the unloading.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_8443.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_8445.jpg)

The flatcar being rebuilt in bay 2.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_8536.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_8540.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_8916.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_8920.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_8925.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_8939.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_8966.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_8969.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_8975.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_8980.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_8988.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_8996.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_8999.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_9004.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_9008.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_9011.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_9016.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_9019.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_9021.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_9024.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_9031.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_9035.jpg)

Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on March 16, 2019, 02:07:06 PM
Thanks for posting Brendan;  I am always amazed by the work Zack accomplishes from rough timber.  I hope that Zack has, or will get, at least a couple of apprentices to learn the trade and all the little secrets these cars hold over the years.  Zack is not only a Master car builder and carpenter but an artist in the true sense as he knows what the various woods can/will do and gets the right wood for the right place for the right job.  I am in awe...…….. :)
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on March 16, 2019, 05:51:17 PM
Every car that Zack rebuilds needs a small plaque saying so.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on March 16, 2019, 07:27:45 PM
Today.. Note the number is on..

(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0316191351b_zpsiktyh5d7.jpg)
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on March 17, 2019, 10:20:16 AM
I see we have another flat surface to store stuff. :o
The flatcar is looking great. When does it get set onto its trucks?

Jeff S.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on March 17, 2019, 10:24:00 AM
No time to store stuff.  What's the next project for the Carpentry shop?
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on March 17, 2019, 10:42:08 AM
I hope we can make trucks available this week.

Next project in here is 67- going for gold this time.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on March 17, 2019, 10:52:22 AM
Can't wait to see what #67 will look like.  Is it getting new/rehab'ed trucks also?


As we are doing all this restoration work, are we including provisions for the vacuum braking system?
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: James Patten on March 17, 2019, 03:32:01 PM
Wait - a gold 67?  I don't recall seeing gold in the budget.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on March 17, 2019, 05:46:12 PM
For those of us who can't keep up, what is the 67 project, gold or otherwise?
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on March 17, 2019, 06:18:30 PM
The unfinished reconstruction of B&SR Car 67: http://forum.wwfry.org/index.php/topic,2566.0.html (http://forum.wwfry.org/index.php/topic,2566.0.html)
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Holmes on March 17, 2019, 07:16:04 PM
To put this in perspective:  we are extremely close to having TWO new freight cars operational this summer -- 67 and 34.

That is an amazing achievement.

Bob
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on March 18, 2019, 08:58:09 AM
[Moderator's Note]
John's question regarding vacuum brakes has been moved to the Member's Only section of the Forum.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on March 23, 2019, 08:41:38 PM
Flat car progress.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_9051.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_9053.jpg)

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_9104.jpg)
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on March 23, 2019, 11:02:42 PM
Amazing work.
Go, Zack!
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Joe Fox on March 24, 2019, 04:56:45 AM
A few visitors stopped by today, including an exchange stufent from Austrailia and his host family (who was from Portland). They toured the shop and in passing I told them about the rebuild on the flat car that Zack has done and they were very impressed. Then I made the connection to them by mentioning #9 was built in Portland and that the turntable was designed and replicated from the one that Portland Co built in Wiscasset. They seemed interested and will hopefully be back later this season.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dave Buczkowski on March 24, 2019, 01:30:10 PM
I squired the exchange student and his hostess around the campus and on the train. The hostess was so impressed with us that she handed me a donation. I encouraged her to come back with her sons for work weekend. Unfortunately the exchange student is leaving the first day of work weekend and can’t join us.
Dave
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on March 26, 2019, 10:11:39 PM
The last deck board went on the car today.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_9119.jpg)
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Gary Kraske on March 26, 2019, 11:52:40 PM
Congratulations to Zack and any others who may have assisted him!
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Brendan Barry on March 28, 2019, 06:54:17 PM
One of the trucks going under 34. The truck needs to be painted and have the bearings repacked.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_9257.jpg)

The other truck dissasembled to swap out a wheel set. The brake beams also need to be installed.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_9229.jpg)

The replacement wheel set in the lathe getting the bearing journals turned.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_9233.jpg)

34 with the stakes and side boards installed. The Bridgeton flat cars had the end stake pockets set in from the end of the car.

(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/bsr%2034/IMG_9250.jpg)

Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on March 28, 2019, 07:01:48 PM
A silly question.  Why put a truck under a car when it still needs paint and repacking?  It would be so much easier to complete when open to the shop.  Also, based on photos, looks like we might want to get out the wheel gauge and check a few things.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on March 28, 2019, 07:50:07 PM
The trucks won’t go under until they’ve been reassembled, painted, lubrication serviced, and brakes installed on one truck.

The wheelset nearest the photo has wear but is within acceptable limits.  The other wheelset had flat spots, so we traded it to Brian for a set which had its treads turned, but needs journals turned (which we’ve since done).

We are machining new bearings to match the new journal diameters.  We hope to reassemble the trucks and install brakes Saturday.  Lacking time to paint and service journals Saturday, I suspect truck installation will stretch into next week.  We weren’t expecting the flat wheel, or the pitted journals on the replacement, so our schedule is a touch off.

67 will come in the shop as soon as 34 leaves.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on March 28, 2019, 08:02:34 PM
I knew I'd get the straight story - thanks Jason!  Had me scratching my head when I read the truck had been rolled under the car without paint and packing.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on March 29, 2019, 09:03:28 PM
I'm glad to see the big lathe in use again.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on March 30, 2019, 11:55:00 AM
What goes on, or is on,  all the new topside wood to protect it?

Great work by Carmaster Zack and helpers, BTW.
Looks like the WW&F shop is turning into the Everhot Car Rebuild Factory!  ;)
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on March 30, 2019, 05:50:49 PM
Deck is pressure treated lumber. Between that and the frame members are some strips of bituthane, a product intended to be installed on roofs, but is found being used in several different applications in building construction
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on March 31, 2019, 10:18:48 AM
I see in the last photo, the flatcar has become a temporary storage facility. At least, I hope it's temporary. :o

Jeff S.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Fred Morse on March 31, 2019, 10:33:58 AM
That's because it's a flat surface!
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on March 31, 2019, 03:29:34 PM
Hopefully, it will be a mobile flat surface, soon. ::)

Jeff S.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on April 05, 2019, 12:12:59 PM
Bituthane, or something similar, is also used the same way in car rebuilds at C&TS.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Reidy on April 06, 2019, 11:17:21 PM
The April 2019 Work Reports thread has photos I posted today for the B&SR #34 flat car (http://forum.wwfry.org/index.php/topic,3429.msg41331.html#msg41331).
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on April 07, 2019, 10:00:56 AM
Bill,

Thanks for posting the photos. The flatcar is progressing nicely.

Jeff S.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on April 07, 2019, 09:05:55 PM
Thanks, Bill.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ted Miles on April 13, 2019, 10:46:45 PM
I would like to know what size the four wheel sets are in the #34 trucks?

Are they 26" iron wheels? The flat car looks wonderful; considering what it looked like on New Years Day!

Ted Miles, WW&F Member
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Harold Downey on April 13, 2019, 11:22:47 PM
All of our wheels are 20".
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Reidy on April 14, 2019, 07:36:19 AM
A few photos of flat car #34's roll out yesterday afternoon.  As reported elsewhere, the brake truck was rolled under the car yesterday, and the brake rigging connections were completed.  When Dave and I arrived a bit before 3 p.m., the car was ready to be rolled outside.

The roll out from shop bay 2 starts, with car inspector Dave in place for the ride.
(https://i.imgur.com/MnLyx23.jpg)

A couple of outside views.
(https://i.imgur.com/vqsNZhH.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/C2OPW9Y.jpg)
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: ALAIN DELASSUS on April 14, 2019, 08:30:09 AM
Some perfect weather for a short stroll out. Well done to those who carried out this restoration steadily through Winter.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on April 14, 2019, 08:43:43 AM
I did not notice until I saw the pictures that the roll out was sponsored by Dunkin..
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on April 14, 2019, 08:53:48 AM
More like the roll out was fueled by Dunkin
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on April 14, 2019, 09:37:21 AM
Good one, Stewart. ;D

Jeff S.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on April 14, 2019, 10:20:14 AM
Did I miss something?  On our flat cars the brake end truck is at the same end of the car as the break wheel.  It appears that this car either has brakes on both trucks, or the brake wheel is at the opposite end of the brake truck.

On a positive note, that flat car looks great!  Can we put plastic slip covers over it like my mother use to do for the sofa?  That way during the SWW so we won't get it dirty.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: James Patten on April 14, 2019, 03:17:36 PM
This flatcar has a brake wheel on one end, and the braked truck on the other end.

The car is 6" wider than our cars, so ton-for-ton there's some extra room on the ends for the brakeman to take up comfortable residence.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: John McNamara on April 14, 2019, 04:55:54 PM
..... there's some extra room on the ends for the brakeman to take up comfortable residence.
Don't let Dave know or he will want a comfy chair with drink holder and sunshade just like he has on the tamper.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dave Buczkowski on April 14, 2019, 06:18:08 PM
It would help me with my three points of contact. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Steve Smith on April 15, 2019, 12:30:07 AM
Alain, I don't know whether Dunkin has invaded France or whether you've seen Dunkin Donuts stores in another country. In the USA, it has many stores where one can get donuts, coffee, coke, etc. Dunkin Donuts is one of the companies here often called "fast food chains." And, as shown by the carton on flatcar 34, at a Dunkin donuts store you can get food to take out in a carton.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on April 15, 2019, 07:49:48 AM
Steve,

Let me get this straight, we are trying to convince a Frenchman, a country where food taste has been taken to ultimate limits, that "fast food" is actually food?

Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Robert Hale on April 15, 2019, 09:15:01 AM
Steve,

Let me get this straight, we are trying to convince a Frenchman, a country where food taste has been taken to ultimate limits, that "fast food" is actually food?

Tim Horton's FTW. Nuclear hot coffee and doughnuts for days.
Title: Re: B&SR #34 flat car - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on April 15, 2019, 11:14:11 AM
Tim Horton's FTW. Nuclear hot coffee and doughnuts for days.
I forgot about the Québécois.  Mille pardons.