W.W.&F. Discussion Forum

Worldwide Narrow Gauges => Other Narrow Gauge => Topic started by: Stephen Hussar on December 13, 2008, 09:31:08 PM

Title: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Stephen Hussar on December 13, 2008, 09:31:08 PM
This photo from Glenn Christensen shows a very solid looking 2-8-2 Baldwin in Argentina... based upon the design of SR&RL No 23, but updated. Thanks, Glenn!

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/30_inch_gauge_Baldwin_Argentina.jpg)
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Matthew Gustafson on December 14, 2008, 12:19:24 AM
Um I dont think it looks like SR&LR #23? Does anyone have any photos of the real #23?  ??? ::) :)
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Stephen Hussar on December 14, 2008, 08:30:30 AM
Um I dont think it looks like SR&LR #23? Does anyone have any photos of the real #23? 

Try the narrow gauge discussion forum www.ngdiscussion.net

Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Mike Fox on December 14, 2008, 10:52:57 AM
Matt, simple things like changing the pilot and bolting a number plate to the front would make quite a difference in looks. The shape is there.
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Vincent "Lightning" LeRow on December 14, 2008, 04:42:36 PM
the outside frames and cranks really seal the deal for the apearance.  A new number plate and some re-lettering is all it needs! ;)
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Matthew Gustafson on December 14, 2008, 06:00:58 PM
And if its a wood burner then we need to change the fuel type! ::) :)
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Mike Fox on December 14, 2008, 08:55:15 PM
By the looks of it, they might run it on a liquid fuel. Looks like a tank has been set in the coal pocket of the tender.
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Glenn Christensen on December 14, 2008, 10:09:57 PM
You're right Mike!

She's an oil burner.


Best Regards,
Glenn
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Stephen Hussar on December 15, 2008, 05:58:04 PM
Glenn, send me the spec sheet and I'll post that too.
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Keith Taylor on December 15, 2008, 07:42:18 PM
Fairly late engine....notice the piston valves. And what looks like Sellars non lifting horizontal injectors. The issue with foreign market locomotives is they usually lack ASME code boilers. Without a National Board number and traceable materials for every repair...they would probably require an entirely new boiler before they could operate here in the U.S. While certainly do-able, that is a very expensive proposition.
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Glenn Christensen on December 15, 2008, 09:37:18 PM
I agree Keith!

You can pretty much count on any repatriated loco needing a new boiler .  Even so, all the estimates I have seen indicate a full restoration with new boiler would probably be half the cost of constructing the same loco new.  Unfortunately, its unlikely a loco of this size would be economic to operate on any of the current Maine two-footers, given normal ridership levels.  But we can dream!

Best Regards,
Glenn
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Stephen Hussar on December 15, 2008, 09:42:15 PM
Cualquier persona habla espaƱol? ;) Nice! Thanks, Glenn.

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/baldwinblueprintmed.jpg)
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Ira Schreiber on December 16, 2008, 12:37:52 AM
And it burns "petroleo"=oil
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: John Kokas on December 16, 2008, 10:42:47 AM
Still would be nice to get one..... ;)  And an oil-burner wouldn't be a bad thing, we'll just use some good ol' yankee smarts and run it on bio-diesel.  Then make our own fuel for next to nothing. 

Put that in your pipe and smoke-it   --  Oil companies

Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Bill Piche on December 16, 2008, 11:39:57 AM
Since a new boiler on something like that would probably be needed anyways, who says that you can't make the new one more preferable to coal?
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Stephen Hussar on December 16, 2008, 02:01:06 PM
They speak Portuguese in Argentina.
That may be true, but the official language of Argentina is Spanish.
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Wayne Laepple on December 16, 2008, 06:02:30 PM
I believe it's Brazil where Portuguese is the national language.
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Ken Fleming on December 16, 2008, 06:53:33 PM
Wayne and All

My bad!  Your right.  I even have friends living in Brazil.  Sorry.

Ken
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Nick Griffiths on December 17, 2008, 01:59:31 PM
For those interested, there's a very good website on the narrow gauge railways in South America [http://railwaysofthefarsouth.co.uk/] compiled by a Welsh Highland Railway fireman.  The chapters on "La Trochita" and the other 2'6"/30"/760mm lines are worth reading.  I've come across other sites but can't think of the urls.

There's also a 1999 book - "Narrow Gauge Rails to Esquel" by Keith Taylorson ISBN 1-871980-41-0 with a more detailed (as far as information is available) history of this line which opened in the early 1920s and didn't open its full length until after WW2!

The Baldwins were interesting in that 1) the batch of 25 locos were delivered in only 40 days from receipt of the order in October 1922, 2) that some were superheated and some were saturated and 3) they weren't all commissioned- some ended up used as spares after sitting around for many years!

Hopefully of interest...

Nick
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Pete "Cosmo" Barrington on December 17, 2008, 08:48:44 PM
VERRY interesting!
I wonder if any of the "spares" are still unused? (I'm guessing not.) I also wonder if it would be possible to "liberate" enough usable parts, perhaps even a less-than-servicable locomotive that's noot an exact match ut with the parts for building a closer representaative of SR&RL #23, 24, or 26?
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Vincent "Lightning" LeRow on December 17, 2008, 09:37:22 PM
Perhaps we could scrounge up parts for a #6 copycat? ::)
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Pete "Cosmo" Barrington on December 17, 2008, 11:09:21 PM
Perhaps we could scrounge up parts for a #6 copycat? ::)

My piont! :D ;)
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Paul Horky on December 20, 2008, 02:29:21 PM
Guys somethings to consider 1 these are 8 coupled not 6 coupled engines 2 they will not fit your track as they are 6" too wide. With work one could be a engine but big and not too useable on any of the Maine lines. Now some of the engines still in Barizl are 1 two foot 2 built from the same plans as some of the Maine engines 3 are 6 coupled so with work could be made to look like what you want.
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Wayne Laepple on December 20, 2008, 05:25:14 PM
The difficulty with the two-foot gauge locomotives in Brazil is that all have been declared "heritage" by the provincial government and therefore cannot be sold or donated or otherwise removed. I spent quite a bit of time about two years ago corresponding with several people, including folks on the ground in Brazil, and they made it clear that none of this equipment will leave the country.
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: James Patten on December 20, 2008, 09:56:20 PM
Guys somethings to consider...they will not fit your track as they are 6" too wide.

Although 30" gauge equipment can be narrowed to 24" gauge (Our #10 used to be 30" gauge), I would be quite wary about narrowing the gauge on a large locomotive.  Unless you're prepared to do a lot of work on the cylinders, they will remain at 30" gauge, while the frame will have to come in 3" on either side.  Cylinder castings aren't made for that - #10's, when we rebuilt it a few years ago, required some careful thought as to how to stabilize the cylinder casting (it was relatively loose on the frame before the rebuild).  We ended up welding in some risers and wedging the cylinder, then drilling holes and putting in fitted bolts to hold it.
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: Glenn Christensen on December 21, 2008, 02:59:39 PM
Hi James,

You're right of course about the possible problems encountered when regauging a locomotive ... but don't forget, these locos are outside frame ...

(I can hear the "doh" way down here in Georgia.)


Grins and Best Regards,
Glenn
Title: Re: 30-inch gauge Baldwins in Argentina
Post by: James Patten on December 21, 2008, 06:56:34 PM
I would imagine outside frame would make regauging from 30 to 24 much easier.