W.W.&F. Discussion Forum

WW&F Railway Museum Discussion => Work and Events => Topic started by: Ted Miles on July 14, 2017, 12:25:05 AM

Title: Enginehouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ted Miles on July 14, 2017, 12:25:05 AM
Perhaps people can share their thoughts about the Enginehouse that goes with the turntable;

now that it is happily turning around. If I missed one please say where it is.

Will the structure be built to plans or just to historic photographs?

Ted Miles, WW&F Member

Title: Re: Work Thread for the Round House
Post by: Robert Hale on July 14, 2017, 07:08:23 AM
So will the new "show" be called "As the roundhouse turns?"  ;D
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dwight Winkley on July 14, 2017, 10:45:00 AM
Hi Ted. Am not sure if we have the original plans, someone else can answer that question. We do have photographs.

I do know original Wiscasset  roundhouse had three tracks. When you stand on the turntable and look at the roundhouse the original roundhouse had the run thou track on the left hand track. The museum will build the new roundhouse with the run thou track on the right hand track. This track is in service at the present time, it runs from the turntable to the North Yard.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on July 14, 2017, 01:18:19 PM
The new roundhouse will essentially be a mirror image of the Wiscasset Roundhouse. At least externally.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: William Simonton on April 25, 2020, 10:11:47 PM
A couple of notes on roundhouse construction.

1)  Typically the center of the rear wall panels were designed to "Knock Out"  in sufficient width so that only a hole the width of a locomotive was opened and the whole rear wall of that bay was not required to be rebuilt.  The walls were permanent but allowance was made for Murphy's Law.

2.  Once the railroads began replacing cinder/stone floors with concrete, an "over run pit" was added just at the end of track to drop the front truck/axle.  The pit was covered with wood flooring so that was not open but the weight of the locomotive front truck/axle would break the flooring and drop the front truck in an over run situation.

Just a couple of design notes which although construction is not imminent and not Maine 2' gauge prototype, might want to be considered when the time comes.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on April 26, 2020, 08:31:03 AM
Interesting observations. I get a chuckle out of thinking about a breakaway type wall. I wonder how many incidents happened before someone changed the design enough..
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ted Miles on May 03, 2020, 02:41:19 PM
Folks,
         This back wall business is still happening; the Colorado Railroad Museum built a brick six-stall Restoration Roundhouse in 2000. Just a few years ago, the Colorado  Historical Society donated the D&RGW #491, one of the largest class of narrow gauge locomotives that ever ran on the D&RGW. They had to re-build the back wall of one stall for her to fit inside the building!

I hope the new WW&F #11 will fit in the building when she is ready to go inside.

Ted Miles, WW&F and CRRM Member 
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on May 03, 2020, 05:28:00 PM
Ted,

I think that part is covered by our Engineering Department.  That's not to say that some re-engineering would be required if somehow a South African Garrett would show up on the property.   :o
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: William Simonton on May 06, 2020, 11:17:53 AM
I forgot one thing which might also be useful.  The Pulley Block.  See the attached drawing details from a standard gauge roundhouse.

(http://Stop Pit.jpg)
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Roger Cole on May 06, 2020, 05:49:35 PM
Ted,

I think that part is covered by our Engineering Department.  That's not to say that some re-engineering would be required if somehow a South African Garrett would show up on the property.   :o

A Garratt would need some major re-engineering on the turntable as well.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Paul Uhland on May 07, 2020, 12:55:06 PM
Pardon my ignorance...what is this pulley block, what's it for?
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: William Simonton on May 07, 2020, 04:08:21 PM
It is used a pulley system to move a dead engine without resorting to using another engine as the power source especially when repositioning the engine during maintenance.

Why in this case it it positioned off center I do not know.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on May 08, 2020, 12:34:42 PM
Or completely replace all the axle, truck, and drive-rod bearing to roller bearings and re-balance the drivers, then a couple of guys would be able to just push the engine around.   :D

To all non-believers, there is film on youtube showing a NYC 4-8-4- Niagara with all roller bearings and rod bearings being pushed by 4 guys.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on May 08, 2020, 01:37:30 PM
I have helped push No. 9 and No. 10 in and out of the shop on several occasions. Not that hard.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Piche on May 08, 2020, 02:34:38 PM
I have helped push No. 9 and No. 10 in and out of the shop on several occasions. Not that hard.

Depends on which track and how many people you have. Gordon and I had a hell of a time getting 9 out the door in bay 3 by ourselves last spring. The unseasonable humidity didn't help much, nor did that 9 doesn't like to be pushed on flat ground. Once we got her over the tipping point at the door to bay 3 she rolled fine, but those first 25 feet were killer.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on May 08, 2020, 03:06:03 PM
A 6' 2x4 on edge under the pilot makes it easy to get rolling.  Leverage my son, leverage.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Piche on May 08, 2020, 05:31:48 PM
6 foot pieces of lumber are more rare than steam locomotives up there, Bill. I'm lucky I can find enough kindling for a fire nevermind a complete 2x4.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Mike Fox on May 08, 2020, 06:51:08 PM
6 foot pieces of lumber are more rare than steam locomotives up there, Bill. I'm lucky I can find enough kindling for a fire nevermind a complete 2x4.

You steam guys want everything..😁 I'll gather all my scrapwood this summer just for you..
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on May 08, 2020, 07:39:12 PM
There should be more scrap wood this year from the exhibit hall construction. 

P.S.
Think of Fred's motto: "Anything smaller than a 6X6 is just trim."
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Reidy on May 08, 2020, 07:55:05 PM
Fred should be an honorary member of the steam crew.  He's cut up more firing wood than anyone I know.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on May 08, 2020, 10:38:19 PM
6 foot pieces of lumber are more rare than steam locomotives up there, Bill. I'm lucky I can find enough kindling for a fire nevermind a complete 2x4.
Bill, All year I save my Wall Street Journals (the paper is thicker than the other rags) and bring them for the SWW, my Summer 3 1/2 week soiree, and the FWW.  That is so I am assured there is always fire starter for the kindling.  Bringing up kindling is a little harder for my car, hence the hunt for fire starter wood each morning.

I feel your pain!
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: William Simonton on May 09, 2020, 11:02:47 AM
Consider this scenario:  A dead locomotive moved onto the turntable by a second locomotive. Moving it into the roundhouse over the rail gap between the turntable and the roundhouse lead with leverage limited by the turntable bracing.  As time goes by the settling and warping of the turntable may make that a issue even if you get it perfect at first.

Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on May 09, 2020, 12:48:03 PM
We have two small internal combustion locomotives, either of which is capable of moving a dead locomotive in or out of the proposed roundhouse and onto the turntable. Let's not overthink this.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Harold Downey on May 09, 2020, 02:40:00 PM
Yeah, that turntable is not doing any settling or warping.  You should have seen all the concrete in its foundation.  It's like an iceberg, only a fraction of it is visible above ground.  The foundation goes below the frostline, which in this part of Maine is about 4 feet. 
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Graham Buxton on May 14, 2020, 09:27:14 AM
If 2x4s of a suitable dimension are not available, or more ooompf 8) is needed in moving a dead locomotive, there is a 'mature' technology solution available  ...

(https://www.aldonco.com/images/products/4000s/4017-01.jpg)
Image source and product page: https://www.aldonco.com/store/p/198-Manual-Car-Mover-with-guard.aspx (https://www.aldonco.com/store/p/198-Manual-Car-Mover-with-guard.aspx)

Costs more than a 2x4, but very cost effective for small operations.




Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on May 14, 2020, 09:38:54 AM
Things like brake shoes and cylinder cocks get in the way, though.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on May 14, 2020, 09:43:26 AM
We have a railcar mover similar to the photo at the ready in the shop.
Wayne is correct that its actual use is restricted by various accouterments that interfere with access to the wheels.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Gordon Cook on May 14, 2020, 12:37:26 PM
It is, however, a great aerobic exercise device.
It only takes moving #9 a few feet to get in your workout.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on May 14, 2020, 06:04:22 PM
It has been my experience (limited though it may be) that once you get 9, or any other car, moving, two people can keep it going if it is on level track.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Holmes on May 14, 2020, 07:30:42 PM
OK, so how did we get #8 and #4 onto the display tracks.  Are we overthinking this?
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dana Deering on May 15, 2020, 12:29:31 PM
I have moved 9 out of Bay 3 two or three times by myself using the tool shown above.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Piche on May 15, 2020, 12:49:59 PM
OK, so how did we get #8 and #4 onto the display tracks.  Are we overthinking this?

I believe it was the diesel to get them onto the turntable and a tractor to pull them onto the display tracks.

I have moved 9 out of Bay 3 two or three times by myself using the tool shown above.

Was that just before or also after the concrete floor went in, Dana? I noticed that before there was a little slope out the door. It's still there but only once you get past the "tipping point" at the edge of the concrete.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Gordon Cook on May 15, 2020, 01:40:53 PM
I once moved her out with a come-along.
Boy, that was painful. Didn't try that again.

If I remember right, you get about an inch or maybe two out of each 'stroke' of the car mover.  While you can break the static friction, it is difficult to keep her moving and still be able to push.

I thought we would be able to fire up inside the new roundhouse? Doesn't that mean we won't have to push an engine out anymore?
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bob Holmes on May 15, 2020, 08:03:58 PM
Thanks Bill, for the reply about #8 an #4.  That makes total sense.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Dana Deering on May 18, 2020, 05:32:40 AM
It took about two strokes with the car mover to break her free and gain a little momentum and then I pushed her out.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Ted Miles on November 02, 2020, 04:46:03 PM
The question with which I started this thread still stands. Now that the Trout Creek Bridge is in and the track laid, will 2021 be a good year to build the Roundhouse?

It is especially important now that the WW&F Railway Museum is providing storage for so much of the Maine Narrow Gauge equipment.
Ted Miles, long time WW&F Member
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Wayne Laepple on November 02, 2020, 05:19:05 PM
There is a long-term plan, Ted. The roundhouse is included in that plan. It will happen. Send money!
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: John Kokas on November 02, 2020, 05:38:42 PM
To echo Wayne, please send money.  Seriously there is a plan and it will take a couple of years to get it started but the Engine-house is definitely up there on the list.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on November 02, 2020, 10:29:37 PM
The question with which I started this thread still stands. Now that the Trout Creek Bridge is in and the track laid, will 2021 be a good year to build the Roundhouse?
This below is from the Alna Town 5 year plan published in 2018.  I am sure this is delayed because of the Covid-19 disruptions.  Of course money always helps move projects along.  Someone to coordinate with the BOD and take the lead would probably also help.

Roundhouse – this will be a 3-stall building on the opposite side of the turntable from the
road. This will remove operating locomotives from the car shop (big yellow building),
dividing assets to reduce fire risk on the Sheepscot campus. Anticipated in the 2020-
2023 timeframe.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: James Patten on November 02, 2020, 10:41:38 PM
While the Trout Brook switch is in, the siding track itself still has to be laid, the turntable on the far end put, everything needs to be jacked, tamped, reballasted, perhaps rejacked and tamped and ballasted again in places.  The opening of the Mountain Extension is delayed until 2022 because of Covid.  So it's definitely not "done".
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: Bill Baskerville on November 02, 2020, 11:28:16 PM
James,

Thanks for the detailed update on what remains to be completed.  I, like I suspect many others, have been focused on and amazed at what has been accomplished in the mists of all this unpleasantness.
Title: Re: Roundhouse - Official Work Thread
Post by: ALAIN DELASSUS on November 03, 2020, 02:20:08 PM
I think you're right James. One thing at a time. You are wised to complete the mountain extension first and then to keep up the main line in earnest Track is of a paramount importance. What's the point of having power motives and rolling stock if you can't have them run safely.