W.W.&F. Discussion Forum

The Maine Narrow Gauges (Historic & Preserved) => Maine Narrow Gauge RR Co. & Museum => Topic started by: Cliff Olson on February 10, 2012, 04:48:36 PM

Title: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Cliff Olson on February 10, 2012, 04:48:36 PM
Ed Lecuyer says in the recent pilot/cowcatcher discussion that MNG "may be moving".  I have heard from another source that Phin Sprague's Portland Co. property is about to be sold.  Does anyone have further information on this?
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on February 10, 2012, 04:51:22 PM
This has been discussed repeatedly.
For examples, please see:
http://forum.wwfry.org/index.php?topic=1220.0
http://forum.wwfry.org/index.php?topic=1368.0
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Cliff Olson on February 10, 2012, 05:01:50 PM
Sorry, Ed.  I thought you were referring to new information on the possible "done deal".
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Dale Reynolds on May 02, 2012, 10:23:51 AM
some of the yahoo sites are reporting the mng board has approved gray as the new site. and mng has a consultant to begin raising money, some 5 million, for the move. this is per a newspaper called the 'forecaster' i believe. too bad monson lost out. dale
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Richard "Steam" Symmes on May 02, 2012, 11:43:33 AM
Even more "too bad" that Bridgton lost out.
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Joe Fox on May 02, 2012, 06:00:48 PM
Especially since that is where 80% of the equipment originally came from.
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on May 02, 2012, 07:11:04 PM
I think a good many of us were hoping for Bridgton, I was.  Well I hope things go well for MNG whatever happens.

Stewart
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Richard "Steam" Symmes on May 02, 2012, 08:15:22 PM
It's a shame that all this time, money, effort and sweat were put into the move from Edaville to Portland, only to have it all come to this.  Think of all the years that essentially have been wasted. Now they have to start over from back at square one.  I have no idea what the Gray location is like, so I won't comment on it. At least it will be on a former railroad right of way.  But it could have been so much more. 
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Mike Fox on May 02, 2012, 09:26:06 PM
The Gray location has the potential for a longer ride, but the scenery is not quite as spectacular as it can be by the bay. They are estimating 5 million for the move. I would suspect this would include the track and other infrastructure items as well as the move.
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Richard "Steam" Symmes on May 03, 2012, 11:18:13 AM
Where on earth, and how, will they ever accumulate 5 million dollars?  Haven't they always lived a sort of "hand to mouth" existence?  I don't think there are enough grants, donors, or other funds available, especially in these times, to raise anywhere near that kind of money. It will be interesting to see how they do.  Is there a time deadline for moving?
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Richard "Steam" Symmes on May 03, 2012, 07:11:11 PM
Here's another question:  Who owns the P&L right of way that the MNG would build on at Gray?  If they don't own the land, they could be forced to vacate again somewhere down the road. Just like the present situation at Portland.

I think they would be foolish to move again to property they don't own and can't control, in perpetuity.

RIchard
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: James Patten on May 03, 2012, 08:00:14 PM
I think the President's message implied that it's owned by Central Maine Power, and that CMP was going to give the ROW to MNG.

FYI here's a website on the Portland-Lewiston Interurban, and it also has a map with Right of way mapped out.  http://sites.google.com/site/markmillerdesign/home2 (http://sites.google.com/site/markmillerdesign/home2)
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Richard "Steam" Symmes on May 03, 2012, 08:12:45 PM
The CMP "giving" the R.O.W. to MNG?  Only with a legal deed in hand, would I move to that spot.  Otherwise, the same thing could happen again that's happening now.  I remember that years ago, Seashore Trolley Museum was trying to lay track on the old ASL roadbed. CMP had power poles on the right of way and they had to be moved in order to expand the trolley museum's running track. That operation took years, because Seashore had to fund the moving of the poles.

It will be interesting to see where this ends up.

I'm familiar with the Portland-Lewiston Interurban, as that was one of the late Laurence Breed Walker's favorite lines, and pictures of it in his Walker Transportation Collection archives at Beverly Historical Society portray its rolling stock and structures quite completely.
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Matthew Gustafson on May 15, 2012, 01:59:57 PM
So is MNGM planing on moving to a new site this year or is this a future plan to move out of Portland. I read the president's message and I do look forward to the new site alittle bit because it has the room to build protective roofs or sheds over the equipment to keep it out of the elements.

Plus how long if anyone knows the ROW will be at this new location.
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Hansel Gordon on May 18, 2012, 05:43:34 PM
i herd 1 1/2 miles
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Joe Fox on May 18, 2012, 07:20:00 PM
and this will happen sometime within the next 5 years, or at least that was the last that I had heard, which was 4 weeks ago, and changes frequentely
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Richard "Steam" Symmes on May 18, 2012, 08:36:41 PM
A friend of mine was recently in Gray looking over the supposed new location for MNG.  He says the old Portland - Lewiston Interurban right of way passes through a swampy area near a strip mall where the museum is said to be going.  It's not a major mall according to him. There's the usual pizza joint and some small stores.  Is this seriously where MNG is planning on building a museum?  Can someone who KNOWS the facts come forward and give us the real picture of what this location has to offer?
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Dan Shelley on July 21, 2012, 11:41:49 PM
The property in Portland is much more desirable, beautiful water front. This I'm sure that will be missed. I hope things work out in Gray. I would like to see that lot of old beat up rolling stock shine for day.
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Terry Harper on November 30, 2012, 05:25:07 PM
Richard,

Unless I am mistaken this is the site. Looks like there is almost 1 mile of dead straight running from the end of the line, past the strip mall and scrap yard and over the swampy meadow south to Long Hill Road. What is the latest on the move?

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ASAl7I9w0Q0/ULlA55hQqGI/AAAAAAAABhk/DzS6jmeNO4c/s1358/MNGR%2520GREY.jpg)

Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Matthew Gustafson on December 27, 2012, 09:42:24 PM
If he is correct, will that straight line will be the ROW for the new location of the museum?
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Mike Fox on December 27, 2012, 10:30:15 PM
He is correct. That is the ROW that MNGRR is looking at.
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Matthew Gustafson on December 27, 2012, 10:40:38 PM
Does the ROW Extended any farther than the what the photo shows or is that red line showing the new location ROW from end to end?
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Terry Harper on December 28, 2012, 03:26:19 PM
Matt, that is pretty much all of it. I ended the red line just north of the crossing of Long Hill road. South of the crossing the ROW is interupted by development.

Strip Mall
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0OvsZHKQHkE/UN3xz7wOXPI/AAAAAAAABo4/2jAxQcwUjWk/s1280/Stripmall.jpg)

Junk Yard
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nqd_6ByGvwE/UN3xzloT2iI/AAAAAAAABo0/DUbMUxVxZOM/s1280/Scrapyard.jpg)

Meadows
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-zxTQyJxyqQg/UN3x1N700OI/AAAAAAAABpE/a0UXxfRDewk/s1280/meadows.jpg)
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Ira Schreiber on April 07, 2014, 03:18:29 PM
Maine Narrow Gauge Museum to move, secures deed to new home
Published: April 7, 2014

The museum will soon move to the community of Gray, about 18 miles from its present location in Portland. A new 9,500-square-foot facility is planned.
Photo by Maine Narrow Gauge Railroad Co. & Museum
PORTLAND, Maine – After a nearly four-year long search, the Maine Narrow Gauge Railroad Co. & Museum is moving to Gray, about 18 miles from its current home in Portland. The relocation will take a major step forward this week when Central Maine Power will present the deed for the future railroad right-of-way to the museum at a ceremony on Friday morning.

“This is the key to progress for the project to move forward,” says Executive Director Donnell Carroll. “The right-of-way along the former rail-bed of the Portland-Lewiston Interurban provides the necessary path for us to proceed.”

The museum is dedicated to preserving Maine's two-foot gauge railroad history was established in 1993 and has been looking for a new home since 2010. That year, the museum put out a call to interested communities that wanted to host the museum made up of the former Edaville Railroad collection. The move took on more urgency last year, when the museum's current home on Portland's waterfront, the 10-acre Portland Co. Marine Complex, was sold to developers. At one time, the Portland Co. built steam locomotives, including for Maine's narrow gauge railroads.

While the museum received proposals from Portland, Bridgton, and Monson, the latter two having a direct connection to the museum's historic collection, Gray won out in the end because of the available space for a proposed 9,500-square-foot museum that is currently being designed.

On April 11, representatives from Gray, the museum and Central Maine Power will be on hand for the ceremonial passing of the deed, set to take place at 11:30 a.m. at Gray Plaza on Portland Road, site of the future facility. The public is invited to the event.

Maine Narrow Gauge currently operates seasonal excursions on the Portland waterfront and the museum attracts more than 32,000 visitors annually. For more information, visit www.mainenarrowgauge.org.
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: James Patten on April 07, 2014, 06:10:42 PM
I hope MNG is prepared to live on much fewer than 32,000 visitors when they move to Gray. 

A couple of years ago when they talked about the move the price tag was 2 or 3 million.  It's now up to $6 million.  They must be including track in that figure, maybe done with contractors.
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Philip Marshall on April 07, 2014, 06:19:31 PM
Will 9,500 sq feet be large enough to bring the whole collection under cover? I'm curious what they have in mind.
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: John Kokas on April 07, 2014, 06:47:45 PM
If that 9,500 sf includes shop and servicing facilities, I doubt highly that all of the collection could be kept under cover.  It will be interesting to see what the design looks like.
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Philip Marshall on April 07, 2014, 07:36:55 PM
Though I'm not as familiar with the area as some other people here, I'm not willing to write off the potential of this new site just yet, as I see an interesting precedent for it. The odd suburban location on a state highway with a strip mall and junkyard nearby actually sounds a lot like the situation of the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden, CO, which I'm sure we would all agree is a successful museum. The suburbs of Denver are a far cry from Durango or Chama (which offer both scenery and authenticity), but easy highway access and the general excellence of the collection are enough to make it work. If the MNGM can raise the money this will require (and if the building they're planning is really big enough for the needs of the collection), then I'm willing to be optimistic.

If you've never been to the CO RR Museum, then have a look at this Google Maps aerial. The museum property is so compact that it looks like a model railroad layout!
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Colorado+Railroad+Museum/@39.7719516,-105.1934765,269m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x876b856ad616b0d1:0x83523605fa442fc8
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Ira Schreiber on April 07, 2014, 09:49:22 PM
Although a fairly recent photo, the entire CRM yard in the forground has changed. We have been relocating displays and changing the track layout. The dual gauge started over thiry years ago but never finished is now completed as of a few weeks ago.

Ira Schreiber
Member track crew
Colorado Railroad Museum.
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Mark Spremulli on April 07, 2014, 10:08:55 PM
I wish them the best of luck, hopefully the ride might be more scenic
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Roger Cole on April 09, 2014, 11:36:31 AM
According to an article in the April 2nd Portland Daily Sun, an official with the Maine Narrow Gauge Museum stated that the right-of-way was "two plus miles".
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Richard "Steam" Symmes on April 26, 2014, 06:54:33 PM
From the photos of the old P-L I RR right of way, it seems to be mostly swamp.  Hardly a scenic ride.  It's true that Edaville was mostly a swamp (ok, a BOG), but it had lots of pine woods and some scrub oak to break up the swampy sections.  What will Gray look like?  Will there be room for a loop at the far end so they don't have to back up on the return trip?  I'm also underwhelmed by the strip mall museum site.  Good luck to all involved, but I have serious doubts about this project.

Richard Symmes
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Mark Spremulli on April 27, 2014, 09:03:07 AM
From the photos of the old P-L I RR right of way, it seems to be mostly swamp.  Hardly a scenic ride.  It's true that Edaville was mostly a swamp (ok, a BOG), but it had lots of pine woods and some scrub oak to break up the swampy sections.  What will Gray look like?  Will there be room for a loop at the far end so they don't have to back up on the return trip?  I'm also underwhelmed by the strip mall museum site.  Good luck to all involved, but I have serious doubts about this project.

Richard Symmes
Also Edaville's original ride was along the lake for a good portion
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Terry Harper on April 27, 2014, 06:24:47 PM
Looking at the aerials there does not seem to be room for a loop. You will have to move to the other side of the car to enjoy the other side of the swamp.
Title: Re: MNG RR Museum - Moving to Gray Maine
Post by: Mike Fox on April 27, 2014, 08:08:17 PM
Run arounds would be the way to go with the track set up.