W.W.&F. Discussion Forum

Worldwide Narrow Gauges => Other Narrow Gauge => Topic started by: Matthew Gustafson on November 02, 2008, 04:39:13 PM

Title: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Matthew Gustafson on November 02, 2008, 04:39:13 PM
Im Also A member of the Disney Railroads Disscusion Form and i Want to now that If you put Disneyland Railroad #3 2-4-4 the Fred Gurley Against SR&RL #4 0-4-4! Which one is bigger? 
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: James Patten on November 02, 2008, 08:58:49 PM
2 footers are one foot smaller than 3 footers   ;) ;) ;)

SR&RL #4 was/is pretty small.  I'm guessing Disneyland's #3 would be much bigger.
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Glenn Christensen on November 02, 2008, 09:31:06 PM
Im Also A member of the Disney Railroads Disscusion Form and i Want to now that If you put Disneyland Railroad #3 2-4-4 the Fred Gurley Against SR&RL #4 0-4-4! Which one is bigger? 

Hi Matt,

The two locomotives are very equivalent in size regardless of the difference in track gauge.

Both are 18 tons in weight with 22,000lbs on the drivers
Date Built FG=08/1894; SR=10/1890
Boiler Pressure FG=165psi; SR=140psi
Wheel Arrangement FG=2-4-4RT; SR=0-4-4RT
Driver Diameter FG=30"; SR=33"
Cylinder Size FG=9X14; SR=10.5X14
Tractive Effort FG=5300lbs; SR=5363lbs

I hope this helps!

Best Regards,
Glenn
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Matthew Gustafson on November 03, 2008, 02:10:26 AM
Oh! No wonder Why they look like they can run At Disneyland?  :o :o :o :)
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Matthew Gustafson on November 04, 2008, 11:24:22 PM
What about #7 & #8 to Disneyland #3? :( ;D
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Stephen Hussar on November 05, 2008, 09:21:04 AM
Interesting question. Besides the obvious difference in gauge, how about comparing Disneyland 3 (an 1894 Baldwin) to WW&F No 9 (or No 10 for that matter). Maybe Glenn has the stats?

(http://darkbeer.smugmug.com/photos/272192212_UPTo9-M.jpg)
(http://darkbeer.smugmug.com/photos/272202286_aWQrD-M.jpg)
(http://darkbeer.smugmug.com/photos/272197920_9iyzG-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Matthew Gustafson on November 05, 2008, 01:17:14 PM
Awsome! And Thanks For the Pictures Of Disneyland #3! Thats my favorite engine they Have! I love Those 0-4-4's and 2-4-4's. ;D
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Stephen Hussar on November 06, 2008, 06:26:03 PM
Yes, the 3 was another Louisiana plantation engine...like WW&F No 10. Hard to tell from these pictures what gauge she is, even though we know her as a 3-footer.

(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/Disney3elevationneg.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/Disney3olda.jpg)
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Dave Buczkowski on November 06, 2008, 06:31:06 PM
Steve;
   Imagine No. 10 in the Disney color scheme!
Dave
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Stephen Hussar on November 06, 2008, 06:33:09 PM
Dave, it's awful. That's just too much brass and bright red paint! 
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on November 06, 2008, 07:59:50 PM
Don't let Jason hear you say that.
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Mike Fox on November 06, 2008, 08:00:37 PM
The green on the boiler jacket is ok but the cab would have to be black. It does have some beautiful lines though.
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: John McNamara on November 06, 2008, 08:11:41 PM
Don't let Jason hear you say that.
For any readers that might mistake to which quote Stewart is referring, he is referring to Dave's heretical concept of a Disney-fied #10.
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Glenn Christensen on November 06, 2008, 09:30:43 PM
Interesting question. Besides the obvious difference in gauge, how about comparing Disneyland 3 (an 1894 Baldwin) to WW&F No 9 (or No 10 for that matter). Maybe Glenn has the stats?

Hi Steve,

Disneyland #3 and the Fred Gurley are the same locomotive (shown in your photos) and SR&RL#4 is very similar to WW&F #9 (SR&RL #6) so the stats posted should be good for both locos.

WW&F #10 is a good deal smaller than either loco - about 2/3rds the size.  Although a good deal more modern, #10's stats probably have more in common with the B&B locos than with either of the others.  If you guys are interested, I could probably post a bit more info this weekend.  Let me know.

Best Regards,
Glenn
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Stephen Hussar on November 06, 2008, 09:31:06 PM
The green on the boiler jacket is ok
I guess I don't mind the jacket color either...is this color supposed to look like what is known as, "Russia iron?"
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Glenn Christensen on November 06, 2008, 09:40:59 PM
The green on the boiler jacket is ok
I guess I don't mind the jacket color either...is this color supposed to look like what is known as, "Russian iron?"

Yes, the color is similar.  Russia iron was more a coating or a film on top of the metal and it bonded more firmly to it than any paint.  The color varied by batch and could appear as anything from a light green to a light blue, although I've also heard the coating itself was more of a grey that actually reflected the dominant colors of its surroundings (i.e. green from foliage or blue from the sky).  The California RR Museum has actually done quite a bit of research on Russia iron and even tracked down one of the remaining practitioners (in Russia) to procure the material for their own restorations.  The late-great L&RP magazine published a great article on the subject some years ago.


Best Regards,
Glenn
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: James Patten on November 07, 2008, 11:08:19 AM
Was Disneyland #3 built by Vulcan?

I notice in the pictures Steve posted of it a few posts up, that the engine when it was in the sugar cane fields it greatly resembled our #10 when it was in the fields - tiny boiler, same style cab.  DRR #3 looks like it still has a tiny boiler and tiny cab.  #3 must be oil or gas fired?
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Stephen Hussar on November 07, 2008, 11:33:48 AM
Yes, I thought the 3 had a very similar look too, but...

(http://darkbeer.smugmug.com/photos/272200785_zfSYm-M.jpg)
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Keith Taylor on November 07, 2008, 12:33:28 PM
Steve,
Yes, that color is an approximation of Russia Iron. (Not Russian iron, just like we have Canada Geese, not Canadian geese, as they don't need passports)
I have attached (I hope as I am new to posting photos!) a picture of a 22" gauge Cagney locomotive restored by Don Micheletti in California. He took a piece of the original Russia Iron jacket that had been preserved under something such as the sand dome, and matched the color. True Russia Iron is a planished iron. It is hammered and heated repeatedly, with ash literally beaten into the surface to carburize the iron's surface. The best quality was a polished finish similar to nickel plating. The lesser qualities ranged from a grayish blue to a very distinct blue color.
I would bet that No. 9 first arrived on the Sandy River RR with oiled Russia Iron jackets.
Keith
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Stewart "Start" Rhine on November 07, 2008, 05:02:25 PM
Most locomotive builders used a Russia Iron finish on the boiler jacket prior to the introduction of heat resistant paint.  It is documented that Baldwin and Alco did, the Portland Company probably did too.  The practice may even date back to the days of the Hinkley Locomotive Works in Boston.
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Keith Taylor on November 07, 2008, 05:13:10 PM
Stewart,
And...Russia Iron looks really great!
Keith
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Stephen Hussar on November 07, 2008, 06:09:44 PM
Keith, that's gorgeous...thanks for posting the picture! Incredible that even a Cagney "park engine" was given that type of jacketing! Any idea what year it was built? (The color reminds me of a Dupont Imron blue that a friend repainted his '67 Austin Healey 3000 with!)
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Keith Taylor on November 08, 2008, 10:28:53 AM
Stephen,
That Cagney was built in 1905 and was used at Steeplechase Park at Coney Island, in Brooklyn, New York. The loco had several subsequent owners, but it was restored by Don Micheletti for his friend Marshall Matthews. Mr. Matthews died before the completion of the restoration, but his family had Don finish the work. The locomotive was later sold to the State of Georgia for a proposed museum operation that will include a restored Philadelphia Tobbogan Co. Carousell and the Cagney.
(http://)
Keith
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Keith Taylor on November 08, 2008, 10:33:37 AM
Attached is another image showing the 22" gauge Cagney Brothers Class E locomotive.
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Matthew Gustafson on November 11, 2008, 10:39:58 PM
Was Disneyland #3 built by Vulcan?

I notice in the pictures Steve posted of it a few posts up, that the engine when it was in the sugar cane fields it greatly resembled our #10 when it was in the fields - tiny boiler, same style cab.  DRR #3 looks like it still has a tiny boiler and tiny cab.  #3 must be oil or gas fired?
The Engines at Disneyland Burn Distillate #2 low-sulfur Reformulated Fuel! ;) :)
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Matthew Gustafson on November 11, 2008, 10:41:39 PM
That Fuel Is also Used At Walt Disney World Railroad as well! ;) :)
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Matthew Martin on November 11, 2008, 11:08:51 PM
What happend to Locomotive & Railway Presevation Magazene? I have onefrom 1995 that said that there were some locomotives sinking into the ground near eagle lake in northern maine.
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Duncan Mackiewicz on November 12, 2008, 01:12:47 PM
Those locos are from the Eagel Lake & West Branch Railroad that went out in 1933.  The engines are still out there. Use the following website to find out more: www.state.me.us/doc/parks/programs/history/allagash/rr.htm It details the railroad and it's history.  By the way it was not a narrow gauge railroad.
Duncan
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: o anderson on November 13, 2008, 12:14:30 AM
I would think that other New England rail preservation news should be worthy of an occasional mention here, especially the more obscure stuff like these abandoned engines.  L&RP was purchased by Pentrex, which promptly shut it down.  Maybe there is a chance it could be revived, but from what I hear it is not likely.  This stagnant situation was what caused the creation of Railway Preservation News on the web, which seems to be doing just fine and has less overhead than the magazine.  They still could use some more articles, however.  Feel like writing?
O. Anderson
Title: Re: Are The Maine 2 footers smaller then the 3 footers at Disneyland?
Post by: Hans Brandes on November 14, 2008, 01:24:47 PM
The B&SR engines are much heavier.

B&SR 7 is 33 tons
B&SR 8 is 38 tons

These two were some of the biggest and heaviest two footers ever built.

Glenn probably has even more stats on these too.