W.W.&F. Discussion Forum
WW&F Railway Museum Discussion => Work and Events => Topic started by: Stephen Hussar on October 10, 2008, 10:13:09 PM
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Pictures from Friday. A crew of 30+ volunteers was able to put down 300' of track in some absolutely gorgeous weather!! More to come...
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/Fall08slidingrailsm.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/dayonespikingvertsm.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/endofdayonelooksouthsm.jpg)
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Absolutely beautiful..
I have been home for the last with a case of very severe bronchitis. What a bummer as I took the time off for the WW&F.
Keep up the postings on the progress.
Good luck,
Ira
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And a few more from day 2...beginning with a couple of before and after images. Another 450' was put down today.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/lookingnorthbeforetracksm.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/looknorthaftertracksm.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/carryrail1sm.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/2hammersblursm.jpg)
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Nice photos, Steven!
It's the next best thing to being there. Please keep 'em coming.
Best Regards,
Glenn
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FYI
update
I am now in Maine Medical Hospital with pneumonia.
"I told you I was sick"
Great updates, thanks much,
Ira
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Sorry to hear that Ira! Hopefully pictures from Sunday will make you feel a bit better! (another 300' built) I believe that brings the total to 1050' for the weekend.
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/groupTOMnoonsm.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/3mauls2008sm.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/grouplookingnorth2sm.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/steamendoftracksm.jpg)
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Nice work, I'm glad you had good weather.
Just curious, how many more feet of roadbed is ready for track and how much beyond that is cleared at this time.
Mike Nix
in Minneaota
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The right of way is graded as far as the shoulders of the two rear men on either side of the track. I'm the one on the right with the spike maul on my shoulder.
The right of way has been cleared about twice as far as can be seen. Roughly 2000 feet.
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Those photos, Steve, have made my day!
Ira
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At the end of the weekend, the end of rail was about 500-600 feet south of the Top of the Mountain siding switch, or about 2200 feet north of Albee's crossing. You can see Fred's white Top of the Mountain switch sign in the distance in Stephen's first and third photos from Sunday. I understand track laid this weekend was 1050 feet, plus I believe a 30-foot section installed within the last few weeks to transition from the old rail plate to the new plate bolt spacing.
About 500-600 feet of ballast was put down north from milepost 7. Some of the dips (particularly near the end of track) will need quite a bit of gravel to bring the track closer to the final grade. There will be plenty of work to do during the April work weekend to bring this track into service!
As usual, everyone involved in the planning and management of the weekend did a fabulous job. That includes the kitchen staff, who provided terrific meals, including lunches at the work site Friday, Saturday and Sunday. It was great fun to see friends and watch (and help) the museum grow.
Thanks for the photos Stephen! Ira - I hope you feel better soon. Not seeing the forum this weekend, we were wondering where you were.
- Bill
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There's 3 pieces of rail left over - one on the pile, two on the ground. I assume the two on the ground were rejected by Quality Control.
Lots of stone left over as well. We may not need to buy much next spring.
Nobody has mentioned the work that went on back at Sheepscot on the car shop extension. The west and east walls were framed up on Saturday and Sunday. The lumber for the frames and roof arrived on Friday evening. Still need the steel I-beams for the second floor before the south wall goes up, I guess. I plan to put up some photos on the website this evening.
A videographer from WCSH Channel 6 TV was there, filming for a piece for the news show 207. I'll let everybody know when the piece will be shown.
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And don't forget the survey crew that surveyed for the new round house and car barn. The Quality Control Officer did, indeed, reject the two on the ground lest someone think the rail crew had the dropsies.
Dave
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(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/carshopextframingsm.jpg)
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Great photos as always Steve -
It was good to see you all again after a year, it was a great day and a half of track work... I know we out of towner's had a lot of fun with the project, thanks Dana for all the setup that goes on in the background, and I hope to see you all again in the spring for tamping.
Tom Hunter
Chicago, Il
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Those 2 rejects aren't scrap just yet. Perhaps Dana has a p[lan. It would be a shame to throw away 29 feet of good rail for the 1 foot of bad.
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Dana was disappointed we didn't have any rail to crop and drill bolt holes this time around, so he rejected these two to keep the tradition alive.
- Bill
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Well, I had a great time. Maybe by the end of the week I'll be able to stand up straight without pain. ;-) It was wonderful to be in Maine for a few days. I'm just sorry it's 534 miles from my house!
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I didn't get a photo of it, but I did see Jason using the lathe to turn one of the spoked wheel castings for use either on the Model A track car or for the future #11...
Thanks should go to the kitchen crew for great food all weekend!
Dave Crow
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Here's one of the Railcar/No 11 wheel castings on the BIG lathe...
Yes, the food...phenomenal...THANK YOU again to the kitchen crew!!
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/LR_Turningsm.jpg)
Photo: Jason Lamontagne
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That big lathe is really nice. I got to see it in action while taking a break from framing the shop addition. I think Jason has all the Model T railcar wheels faced now. The turned wheels were taken over to the machine shop.
As James noted the lumber for the shop extension was delivered Friday afternoon. We spent most of Saturday building the east side. The west wall went up Sunday and things went faster as we knew all the measurements by heart. We didn't have the 2X6's to install the top plates so we used 1X3's as a temporary cap to keep the vertical 6X6's in plumb. Thanks to everyone who helped with the "barn raising". Special thanks to our friends from the "Naugy" RR who cut the purlins and passed them up the staging to the framing crew. At one point we had about 10 people working on the project.
The steel I beams are due in next week so the front wall and second floor may go up in the next few weeks if the weather allows. As Wayne said I'd be up to work on the project more if the railroad wasn't 580 miles from my house.
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The fall work weekend photos are just great! With all the track laid and the walls of the car shop going up one can only take the time to thank the people who could be there to get the job done. The media coverage provided by the video was exceptional for people who could not get to the work session. Thank you for keeping us informed about what is being done please keep up the good work both on the site and through the web.
Fred L. Kuhns , Memphis, Tn.
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A few pictures from the work weekend:
On Saturday:
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-10/1221509/IMG_0296.JPG)
"TILT"
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-10/1221509/IMG_0297.JPG)
Heading home through Alna Center after a long day:
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-10/1221509/IMG_0305.JPG)
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Thanks to everyone who posted photos, it's good to see views of the many projects from that weekend. The railroad is now big enough that you can be working in one area and not see everthing that happened on projects in other areas. I have been to every track weekend since they started in 1997 and they get better each year. That first track weekend, Columbus Day 1997, we finished the first (Davis) curve and built the crossing. It was a big deal since we ran the train (just engine 52, box 309 and flat 118) up where you couldn't see it from the station. That was the first time we had a track project with a set goal. I remember that if you needed something, you had to walk down to the yard to get it. We have come such a long way since then!
I should mention that there is a member, Paul, from Mass who spent the week at Sheepscot prior to the track weekend. He did alot of work in the shop. One project was to remove all the old temporary wiring from the machine shop. Another project he completed was to fabricate and install slide plates for the stub switch. He also installed new gather plates under the three running rails and spiked them in place. The stand and target were painted and everything oiled. Take a look at the three way stub next time you get to Sheepscot. The switch looks and works so much better now. Maybe one of our regular volunteers can get photos of the plates and points.
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Hi Everyone!
I've been away from computers for about a week now so I'm late replying. what a great weekend we had, eh? We put down 1050 feet of rail which, when added to the 30 foot "transition rail" makes 1080 feet of new track. The Top of the Mountain is now in sight! Thank you one and all for your hard work and dedication. A plan is only as good as those who carry it out and you guys are the best! I often harken back to the days when I was about 10 years old and had read Moody's book about five times and dreamed about rebuilding the two footers and here we are doing it. It means a lot and I know you all "get it".
Yes, two rails were rejected. One for a cracked base and the other for a vertically split head. I am hopeful that both can be cropped and drilled (can't get away from that can we?) and put to use somewhere but that's all depending on the extent of defects, of course.
Great photos, too, and the segment on 207 was simply outstanding. It's nice to have photographers at hand since I am so busy during these work weekends that I don't even bother to bring my camera.
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Nit to Pick.
I believe the "transition" rails were each 15', not 30'. I helped install them and they were carried to the site on the running boards of 52, IIRC. This makes the railroad 15' shorter!
Ira(I think they were 15')Schreiber
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We could put the rails with cracked base & split head at the end of the Top of the Mountain siding, where quality won't matter too much.
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Has it been decided that the TOM siding should be stub ended or a run around?
I thought the best idea that was proposed was to make it a run around temporarily, then stub end it once we reach 218 (and have a run around there.)
Of course, it would have to be a short run around if we did it that way, since the grade of the siding and the main line start to differ near the crossing.
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Actually Ira, the rails you helped with were to line up the next crossing. That way there was no joint in it. To the end of the 15 footers, we bolted the first two 30 foot rails and drilled the 15 foot rails to accept the new bolt pattern, which was only one hole per rail. Either way, we have put down a total of 1095 feet this year.
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As Mike so ably stated, the transition rails (from one bolt hole spacing to the other) were 30 footers. The 15 footers were laid so the crossing would fall mid rail length thus avoiding having a joint in the crossing itself.It is more accurate to say that we have 1095 feet of new track. No matter how you slice it there was an impressive amount of work completed in those four days.
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Awsome Work on the New Track! As I Said earlier Laying New Track is so fun that its Like a Big New Adventure To Me! Keep up the good work! =D ;D :o ::) ;D
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Thanks to everyone who posted photos, it's good to see views of the many projects from that weekend. The railroad is now big enough that you can be working in one area and not see everthing that happened on projects in other areas. I have been to every track weekend since they started in 1997 and they get better each year. That first track weekend, Columbus Day 1997, we finished the first (Davis) curve and built the crossing. It was a big deal since we ran the train (just engine 52, box 309 and flat 118) up where you couldn't see it from the station. That was the first time we had a track project with a set goal. I remember that if you needed something, you had to walk down to the yard to get it. We have come such a long way since then!
I should mention that there is a member, Paul, from Mass who spent the week at Sheepscot prior to the track weekend. He did alot of work in the shop. One project was to remove all the old temporary wiring from the machine shop. Another project he completed was to fabricate and install slide plates for the stub switch. He also installed new gather plates under the three running rails and spiked them in place. The stand and target were painted and everything oiled. Take a look at the three way stub next time you get to Sheepscot. The switch looks and works so much better now. Maybe one of our regular volunteers can get photos of the plates and points.
LOL! Did you Try Walking to The Yard from Were the New Track Is at right now! :D ;D :D ;D
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Has it been decided that the TOM siding should be stub ended or a run around?
I thought the best idea that was proposed was to make it a run around temporarily, then stub end it once we reach 218 (and have a run around there.)
Of course, it would have to be a short run around if we did it that way, since the grade of the siding and the main line start to differ near the crossing.
I agree but we [should build a] new small station or shelter when we reach the end of the line so we can have a 3 station stops on the WW&F! ::) ;) :)
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There has been some talk about what to do once we get to 218. Some have proposed a small terminal there. I guess it would depend if we decide to continue laying track across the street. After 218, we're not far from the Head Tide station site - but there may be challenges getting there.
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Something to consider:
Once we reach 218 we will be penned in by the FRA on both sides. If we extend in either direction we fall under thier red tape. Perhaps once we reach that marker, it would be best to introvert our efforts for a year or two, bring everything up to speed, upgrade some light rail on the sheepscott end of the main, build restrooms, perhaps a car barn. Maybe get train brakes onto the locomotives( if we don't already have them.)
I understand building new track is fun and exciting (probably my only true addiction ;) ) but we must ensure that things like our rail can handle a heavier engine like 9 or eventually 11 ( I have high hopes that I will see 6 rebuilt one day) and that our motive force doesnt get sidelined for tube replacement once that crossing goes in. Also, it would be nice to get recognition with travel agencies which our lack of restrooms prevents.
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The rest rooms will be in and operational before we get anywhere near Trout Brook or 218. We have discussed before about laying Rail North of 218 without building a crossing and using a railcar or handcar to give rides on that portion. So there is no real place to stop building, only places to decide what to do next.
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Something else to consider. By the time we reach Route 218, we will have over 3 miles of track to maintain. In my experience, the number of volunteers who turn out to maintain track is considerably smaller than those who show up to build. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that, it's just that construction is a lot sexier than maintenance. And those of us still standing will be some older than we are now!
I think the folks who are "regulars" at Sheepscot will confirm that just rousting out a gang to go out and raise low joints or reline a curve is a difficult proposition. I don't see that changing for the better any time soon, I'm afraid.
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There's another limiting factor to track expansion, and that is the public's patience. While railfans would love a two or three hour ride, the typical tourist (especially with children) is more than satisfied with a 40 minute ride such as we currently offer. Further, they don't want to wait a long time for the next train, so service has to be at least hourly. Thus, I envision that we might have to operate two trains - one that goes to Alna Center and back, and one that goes all the way to 218. "Change trains at Alna Center for Route 218!"
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There's another limiting factor to track expansion, and that is the public's patience. While railfans would love a two or three hour ride, the typical tourist (especially with children) is more than satisfied with a 40 minute ride such as we currently offer. Further, they don't want to wait a long time for the next train, so service has to be at least hourly. Thus, I envision that we might have to operate two trains - one that goes to Alna Center and back, and one that goes all the way to 218. "Change trains at Alna Center for Route 218!"
Just the same way that the Cumbras & Toltic Railroad operates on their 64 mile line between Chama & Antonito! :D
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At the standard gauge tourist railroad where I volunteer here in Pennsylvania, we operate hourly trains on a 5.4-mile round trip. We make the trip in 40 minutes, including a 10-minute layover at the other end while we run around the train. At the terminal end, the 20 minute layover allows for the runaround move and watering the engine on each trip. Our average speed is about 12 mph.
Back in the day, the East Broad Top operated hourly service on its 5 mile line, including wyeing the train at Colgate Grove and wyeing at Rockhill. Strasburg still operates hourly service including runaround moves at each end of the line.
Can we operate hourly service from Sheepscot to Route 218 on an hourly schedule, including sufficient dwell time at Sheepscot to clean the fire and water the engine? At an average speed of 15 miles per hour, the 7 mile round trip would take about 30 minutes. That leaves 30 minutes for everything else. Depending on track configuration at Route 218 (if any) and how long servicing at Sheepscot takes, it should be doable.
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Thus, I envision that we might have to operate two trains - one that goes to Alna Center and back, and one that goes all the way to 218. "Change trains at Alna Center for Route 218!"
I assume you mean 1 train between AC and Sheepscott and another between AC and 218. In that case...
Nice Idea! And by that time #9 should be up and running. So we could have 2 steam trains meeting at one station ;D
The engine would need a small water tank there to hydrate the horse and it is entirely possible to put all of the coal the second engine would need for the day into the coal bunker in the morning. (We fit 3 days worth of coal in #4 at MNG for a rail fan weekend once)
For the water, we could possibly set up a small gound-level holding tank, in a wood shanty, with a solar-charged battery-operated pump (unless there is power in AC station?) until we get to head tide and have the water tower there to use. And to refill the tank, we can make a special delivery with the tank car and run the pump in reverse!
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I would point out that at this time, it is sometimes difficult to find enough qualified personnel to run and fire one steam locomotive, much less two. Probably wouldn't be difficult for special occasions, but not on a regular basis. Also, running two trains means using twice as much coal and other consumables. From what I know of the passenger loads, two trains is pretty hard to justify for anything other than special occasions.
Rather than having a standby water source at Alna Center, it would make more sense for the trains to pass one another there, thus allowing each to take water at Sheepscot every other trip. The southbound train should take the siding to allow the northbound train to pass without stopping on the grade.
Keep in mind that no. 9 is half again as large as no. 10 and will use correspondingly more coal. Also, no. 10 may have a tough time making the grade south from Route 218 with two cars. It was never designed to work sustained grades, and nothing it has encountered so far on the WW&F is anywhere near as steep or lengthy as the climb from Trout Brook to Top of the Mountain.
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Further to the subject of running hourly service from Sheepscot to Route 218, I examined WW&F public timetables in "Two Feet to Tidewater" and found that trains between Sheepscot and Head Tide took anywhere from 17 to 20 minutes to cover the 4.3 miles between stations, and southbound trains took between 15 and 18 minutes. 20 minutes equates to 14.4 miles per hour, and 15 minutes is 17.2 miles per hour. So 15 minutes point to point from Sheepscot to Route 218 seems a reasonable speed.
If there is no runaround track at Route 218, the layover there shouldn't be any longer than it takes the engineer to horse the Johnson bar over to go forward. A runaround move can be accomplished in 10 minutes or less, which leaves 20 minutes at the Sheepscot end to run around, water the engine and perhaps clean the fire a bit. Can it be done?
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If there is no runaround track at Route 218, the layover there shouldn't be any longer than it takes the engineer to horse the Johnson bar over to go forward. A runaround move can be accomplished in 10 minutes or less, which leaves 20 minutes at the Sheepscot end to run around, water the engine and perhaps clean the fire a bit. Can it be done?
If an engineer and his fireman have their stuff together, there is no reason that a turnaround at Sheepscot can't be done in 20 minutes. If would just mean less time to relax between runs. I know it's not the same, but in summer conditions, crews on Monson #4 can pull steam from 100 pounds up to operating pressure (125) in less than 10 minutes standing around. I understand that it is probably a bit harder with WW&F #10, being with the smaller firebox and all and the need to clean the fire every run, but it sounds doable to a fireman like me. I'm sure an experienced fireman from the WW&F steam team could better comment than I can.
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Speaking of wich, what does #10 run at for pressure? What will #9 run at?
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Our need to clean the fire stems from the coal we use. It's high ash content, which gives us large dinner plate clinkers at the end of the run. It takes a while to clean them out. When we had cleaner coal last years and in years before, the fireman's time during the wait between runs was mainly to build the pressure back up.
#10 pops off at 140 or so. I think #9 will run at the same pressure but I am not sure.
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Wayne if you dont mine me asking what railroad in Pa are you refering to? Sounds kind like the NH&I same railroad I work at from time to time. If not then we also operate on a 1 hour schedule. We usually make it back to New Hope at quarter to which is more then enough time to top off the tank, fix the fire, get on the train and do a brake test. If we can get the 40 squared away in that about of time (the 40s firebox is probably the size of ten of the #10s) then getting the 10 ready for the road again should be no problem. When I guest fired on the WW&F I found the 10 a dream to fire. The most fun I have ever had on a steam locomotive. The 40 is to much like work!
(http://a12.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/18/l_1da22c17dd08debcce7fa86594c177eb.jpg)
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Nothing so grand as the NH&I, Eric. I'm a long-time volunteer at WK&S, having started there in 1963 while still in high school. There have been several lapses in service when other interests took my time, but somehow I keep winding up back there. The ambiance and the friendly volunteers, not to mention the philosophy that keeps it going draw me back. It's amazing to me how little has changed in the area in 45 years! There are many parallels between the WK&S and WW&F. I'll be there tomorrow for our annual steam-powered, steam-heated Santa trains.
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I am pleased to announce that with the assistance of Brad Whittemore and Dwight Winkley, the magneto telephone line now extends past the end of track. When the track crew gets to the northernmost phone post, they can give us a call :)
-John
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John just couldn't abide the track being beyond the phone line. It must have been bugging him since the work weekend. Maybe we should get the track crew out there next weekend!
KD
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I know the WK&S. Great place and good people. I know a few of the people who volunteer out there. Thats good to hear about the phone line. I remember the one year I was up for the spring work weekend my father helped run the phoneline to Alna Center and I made the first phone call between Alna Center Station and Shepscott Station since the 30s. Kinda cool!
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Well you are now marked in history for life! Congratulations. :) ;D ;D