W.W.&F. Discussion Forum
WW&F Railway Museum Discussion => Museum Discussion => Topic started by: Wayne Laepple on December 20, 2008, 11:42:19 AM
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I'm posting this commentary by the executive director of the Nevada Northern Railway Museum in Ely, Nevada. If you take the time to read and think about what he's got to say, I think you'll agree there are some ideas we might want to adopt for the WW&F. I'm not suggesting train robberies or Thomas events, but there are things we can do within the context of our little railroad to get more visitors and more of their money to support our primary interest in rebuilding and preserving the heritage of the WW&F.
I've got my asbestos suit ready. Here's the link: http://nevadanorthernrailway.net/throttle/throttle013008.htm
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I think we already do this (to a limited extent) at the WW&F:
- Halloween Trains
- Victorian Christmas
- Spring Equinox
It's a balance. The WW&F didn't run through the "wild west" so shoot outs and robberies make no sense with us. I'd like to see us do more things like the Victorian Christmas - maybe with more vintage decorations, circa 1910. I could also see us doing events like a "pumpkin patch" in the fall (take the train to a field, pick a pumpkin, come back.) Maybe the same with Christmas Trees. (Both would require an arrangement with an adjacent landowner/farmer.)
Thomas and the Polar Express have their places - at facilities that can handle them (Boothbay, MNG, etc.) I think part of the charm of the WW&F is "keep it small and simple." I'd rather host 50 families and give them a meaningful, personal event; then herding around 1000+ and pretending that the blue thing on the front of the train is a really useful engine.
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well said Ed. but the article has a meaningful point...
Perhaps we could look into the christmas tree and pumpkin ideas. we'd need some luggage tags to mark and claim trees/pumpkins! How's that for an authentic experience?
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The pumpkin trips are a definite YES. I did these in PA with a line I ran for several years. Pumpkin patch trips with a corn maze were almost always booked to the max. Work this with an adjacent farmer and your golden.
Unless you have a Christmas tree farm adjacent, that will take years to put together along with a good amount of capital money. The Victorian Christmas is good for now, but I'd suggest a "Polar Express" train to Santa's Place. Great way for ridership, and book sales at the museum store. The New Hope & Ivyland does this and sells a lot.......
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Wayne and Ed, sorry to have wrenched this thread off topic with my reaction to Stephen's photo. The Nevada Northern piece is a VERY worthwhile read, one which I hope will set us all to thinking about activities both appealing to the widest possible public yet related to the WW&F and its locale and history, and doable with the size of our active membership.
Steve
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[Moderator's Note:]
I merged the Victorian Christmas photos & discussion into that thread.
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There is one thing I'd like to point out regarding the aforementioned events.
I was fortunate to hit both WW&F and MNGRR this trip up, (Victorian Christmas,) but was disapointed that the MNGRR had a FAR more expensive santa train this year, namely the MGM-marketed/hosted POLAR EXPRESS. While assuredly, it's a "class act" and worth the $$ I'm sure, it was WAY out of my family's budget, and the train was booked solid anyway. Dissapinting, yes, but we'd had a great time at WW&F, so, not so bad.
Now, don't get me wrong, I have nothing against PE events per se, other that they're way too expensive (like Thomas) for my budget, and the "zoo-factor" is WAY off the scale. I'll even say it may be just what MNGRR needs to survive, but at what cost?
I'm just happy that WW&F DOESN'T do this, that finances there are well enough in hand that the Victorian Christmas need not concentrate on sales/marketing/ticket reservations, etc, and just be what it is: "A special train run for the members and supporters of WW&F to show appreciation."
I actually miss the MNGRR "pre-PE." It was an alternative to the INCREADABLY hokey Edaville and I used to combine the two museums with my thanksgiving trip north. Now? I'll settle for getting a great shot of Monson #4 and be glad I got to enjoy a white Yuletide at WW&F.
In short, I'm glad the two chices exist, but I'll drive the extra miles to Sheepscot for the homeyer, less comercial event.
Happy Yule Everyone!
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Cosmo, that is why I don't visit MNGRR during those times. They are geared for kids and it is a great income maker for them. I would rather go while absolutely nothing is going on to look as I please and spend as much time as I want without being crowded out of the way. But the again, I won't go shopping if it is a day when it will be crowded either. Just not a crowd guy.
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I hear ya mike.
See, the nice thing USED to be that when the first Santa Trains would run at MNGRR, on Thanksgiving weekend, there was a relatively modest crowd. It was a great way to take my daughter to see Santa and Choo-choo at the same time.
Now? Wouldn't dream of it.
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I'm not suggesting train robberies or Thomas events, but there are things we can do within the context of our little railroad to get more visitors and more of their money to support our primary interest in rebuilding and preserving the heritage of the WW&F.
I've got my asbestos suit ready. Here's the link: http://nevadanorthernrailway.net/throttle/throttle013008.htm
OK. Here are a few links to a robbery story. Why it was done in the first place is beyond me. I mean, who would hold up a Santa Train?
http://www.sheboyganpress.com/article/20081216/SHE0101/812160374&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL (http://www.sheboyganpress.com/article/20081216/SHE0101/812160374&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL)
http://www.redorbit.com/news/oddities/1611947/two_shot_in_mock_santa_train_robbery/index.html (http://www.redorbit.com/news/oddities/1611947/two_shot_in_mock_santa_train_robbery/index.html)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28252522/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28252522/)
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Why it was done in the first place is beyond me. I mean, who would hold up a Santa Train?
Well Mike, as a "part time" resident of the midwest, I can tell you from first hand experience that not much ever happens in Sheboygan. ;)
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Oh the heck with it, let's "build" a dining car and serve Maine lobster dinners on an evening train. Reservations ONLY. Everything can be prepared "off-train" and served upon leaving Sheepscot. Menu: salad with house dressing or cold slaw, 1,2 or 3 steamed Maine lobster(s)(pre-ordered) (Note: not boiled, but steamed), corn on the cob, small bag of chips, dinner roll, desert - Maine blueberry tart. Selection of cold soft drinks and iced tea. YUM! And, no I did not forget the drawn butter. They do a big business with same basic menu at the Annual Lobster Fest in Rockland.
Service on Saturdays and maybe Sundays - June thru September. Sure would beat Thomas or shoot'um ups.
I know this not "original", but restoration and preservation takes a lot of money, so lets make some.
A 2-foot dining car is great for couples, one facing one across a nice table, enjoying Maine lobster.
Pop does his train thing and rewards mom with dinner for two on the train.
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Now hold on thar!
Weren't there supposed to be two foot gauge Diners and Sleepers for the long journey up to Quebec?
(I'd rather see that Porter Consolidation, to be honest!)
A little Hokum here and there is OK as long as it can be shoved into a shed and the doors closed when needed, which is most of the time!
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Only problem I can see with that,.... well, TWO problems, actually.
1) Will the ride be long enough timewise to actually consume more than ONE lobster?
2) Do you really want the consist smelling like lobster all year? ::)
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Far be it from me to propose train robberies, fake Civil War battles or full-course lobster dinners on the WW&F! But -- the idea of special events is exactly the kind of thinking the original article about the Nevada Northern was advocating. I know we hold such events at the WW&F, but we seem to do a lot of them as freebies for friends and neighbors. If we truly want to grow our patronage (and our membership), we have to do some things to make money beyond our regular train rides and fares.
Let me give one example. At the little 2.7-mile Wanamaker Kempton & Southern here in Pennsylvania, where I volunteer during the rest of the year, we run our Santa Specials the first weekend in December. It's a conveyor belt operation. We load the four car train and it leaves. As it runs up the line, Santa and elves walk through the train, chatting with kids, leading some songs and handing out inexpensive trinkets with our name on them. (This year, it was a wooden ruler.) The train comes back, the passenger get off and go into the book shop. The next set of passengers gets on. Repeat. We make four one-hour trips each day of the weekend.
We've been doing this for 25 years, and among our passengers, we have parents who were brought to the ride as kids now bringing their own kids. All eight trains were completely sold out the week before they ran. In fact, we probably could have added another train each day and sold it out, but who's greedy? We charge two bucks more than our regular summer fare for adults ($8) and kids ($4) and we carried 2,500 people in two days. After expenses, we probably netted something like $15,000. We do this with a minimum of costly advertising, relying mostly on word-of-mouth and our web site, and all tickets are reserved.
Other outfits do pumpkin patch trains around Halloween, buying pumpkins in bulk and putting them out in a field along the line where the kiddies can select one. I know of a place that does an ice-cream ride on Friday and Saturday evenings a couple of times every summer, handling several hundred people each time. You go for the regular train ride, and on your return, you get an ice cream cone. In each case, the ride is priced a buck or two above the regular ride cost, which makes it something special. And I hasten to point out that in each case cited, the railroad is at least as remote from large population centers as the WW&F.
There are purists, of course, who pooh-pooh such crass commercialism in a museum setting, but heck, even fancy art museums aren't above renting themselves out for a wedding or corporate reception. Think outside the boxcar!
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I like the pumpkin patch idea. I always thought that could make for a fun ride. Perhaps there is a local farm that would be interested in participating with us. Train ride, wagon ride, pick your pumpkin and return.
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Wayne - Ditto from here, well said.................
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Honestly?
I like the "Ice Cream ride" idea myself. Especially since it can be done in summer, later in the afternoon/evening and not tied to any specific day/date/weekend. I think it allows for a bit more flexibility.
Personally, I love the idea of an ice cream on a warm summer evening, and have been known to drive a few miles to some of the "neater" places here in CT to find it.
Would Giffords, or perhaps some local creamery be interested in either sponsoring or co-ordinating such an event?
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"yum, these sprinkles are delicious... those aren't sprinkles, they're black flies!" ;)
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A little extra protein is good for you!
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"yum, these sprinkles are delicious... those aren't sprinkles, they're black flies!" ;)
I thought they were jimmies!
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As long as none of the jimmies are moving!
Wayne's post has two ideas and both are period appropriate. The Ice Cream ride is good all Summer, it should bring families out the way Victorian Christmas does. It would be a separate event from the annual picnic. The pumpkin patch is good another family event. It gives kids a chance to detrain and have some fun at AC or in Albee's field. The Model A truck would be used for the pumpkin patch and could give hay rides after the pumpkins are all set out.
These events would give the WW&F additional family outings for Summer and Fall.
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Good ideas, BUT, no large events should be planned until the restroom and parking issues are settled.
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I don't think that the aforementioned events would be all that much larger than those held already, more they'd bring up ridership a bit durring times that other larger events are NOT happening,... ie: durring the later sumer hours (when the days are longer,) and durring the weekends BEFORE the Haloween train event. In other words, I don't see, so much, a bigger event than the Haloween/Christmass/etc trains, just a means of getting a few more riders in durring the slacker times between the other events.
Noone's saying that the ice cream rides need be a record-breaking attendance gala event, nor the pumpkin patch trains. BUT,...
the extra revenues collected during those runs will help go towards things like restrooms and parking.
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An ice cream event could be held on a Saturday evening, maybe once a month May through September, when folks at campgrounds and motels may be looking for some fun family activity. The key, of course, is to advertise it at campgrounds, motels, etc. Posters can be made up and printed quite inexpensively, and if a blank is left for the time and date, it can be filled in with a Magic Marker when a date is set.
As for the Pumpkin Patch, I suggested it in lieu of the Halloween trains, since it could be operated during the day on the weekend before Halloween and would not require extra crews, night time operations, etc.
Another option might be a big barbecue at Alna Center, featuring hot dogs, burgers, etc., along with some sort of live music. Again, an opportunity on a Saturday night to make a few extra bucks.
As Cosmo noted, these are events that can add to the bottom line. The possibilities are endless, and the powers-that-be must recognize that such events, while hokey and not historically appropriate, supplement our income and allow us to do other things that are.
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Smack dab on the head Wayne!!!!!! One thing I learned was that the Pumpkin trains brought many more people than a haunted train. It's little kid friendly........
As for a BBQ type, I'd suggest that it be done in conjunction with a Threshers event or similar. I for one don't recommend doing the BBQ ourselves, let someone who does it for a living have the headaches. Although hosting a BBQ competition maybe a possibility, lots of people and a really fun time...........
As many of us have said on this forum, being exactly prototypical and historical is fine as long as it brings in the visitors. Reality is that museum or not, we are in the "entertainment/education" business and if you don't bring them in, well the alternative is not attractive.
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I'll throw my .02 worth in, being that I have watched the thread for a while now.
The top of the mountain seems to be the best spot to stop the line re-construction for many reasons, and here they are:
I gives time, man power and funds to complete the parking area and restrooms. It allows for ROW maintenance to catch up. During the "pause", rail, ties and other supplies can be stockpiled ready to go once the line resumes building. It gives time to plan and fix the landslide and to allow for the Trout creek bridge to be finished (Marines?).
I think shifting the focus to maintaining the ROW and facilities to support more and different ways of income are good.
About the rolling stock, having a sharper focus on #9 to complete it will be good for the RR. Having 2 steam locos operating will help attendance increase.
My suggestion too is to build (or locate one and modify it) a ballast hopper for ROW work.
I know these things take time, money and manpower. Additional activities like the pumpkin patch trains, Ice cream trains and others to increase ridership are all good ideas.
Now, when can I start to build the WW&F light plant building and put a Fairbanks morse generator in it? Bio-diesel and all.......(when I retire from the Airforce)
Rob
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Good ideas, BUT, no large events should be planned until the restroom and parking issues are settled.
If the property (think it was in the Percival Family) at the corner of ME 218 and Cross Rd is still available, that would take care of extra special events parking needs as it did before. Regarding toilet needs, bring in some additional port-a-potties.
As Wayne and Cosmo said, the extra profits would be welcomed for reinvestment in property and equipment improvements.
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Another option might be a big barbecue at Alna Center, featuring hot dogs, burgers, etc., along with some sort of live music. Again, an opportunity on a Saturday night to make a few extra bucks.
This sounds a LOT like my "Alna Center Folk/Blues Festival" idea. ;)
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Some 40 miles north of Atlanta, GA, a farmer turned his corn field into a maze during the fall. People drove from miles around in such numbers that traffic on the 2-lane road was a nightmare and half the sheriff's deputies were out there. If you had a friendly farmer along the ROW who might be interested in such a money-making project, you could be the staging area for parking and run shuttles to the farm.
People ride the Grand Canyon RR to go to that attraction instead of driving so I feel sure that it will work.
I don't know how far Alna is from a big city or even Bangor but people will drive for many miles for fun on a weekend. I've read and realized that just about major attraction in the Atlanta area is designed to pick $100 from your wallet. I would guess that attractions in Maine are about the same.
What about a farmer's market on the museum property at the proper times of the year? I assume people still farm in Maine.
Jock Ellis
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Oh MAN!
Farmer's Market, Harvest Fair! Why didn't I think of that!
Something like that could work, provided Mr Albee is willing ;)
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I am all about the concept of a folk or blues festival at Alna Center. But as has been noted further up on this thread, such events will require a lot more parking and comfort facilities, not to mention more passenger equipment.
And while the corn maze is a great idea, there aren't many cornfields in Maine, at least not around Alna Center. I wonder if a hay maze would work.....?
Ice cream trains and barbecues can be fairly small events with minimal cash outlays. There's a local guy in this area who runs an ice cream maker with a Fairbanks-Morse hit-and-miss engine which is as much of an attraction as his ice cream -- which is also quite good! And there are folks all over the place who do barbecues with homemade cooker trailers.
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The Museum was put on notice earlier this year by BMI (with two follow up letters) that if we sponsor a music group or play any music licensed by them without paying them a $500 annual license fee that we will be subject to penalties in the thousands of dollars.
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Then the thing to do is find a promoter that already HAS that covered and will work it into the price.
(Kinda like the concept of having a contractor, with liability, licencing and permits covered, to do the work on the washouts. ;) )
But I digress.
Having a BBQ with a couple folkies playing "Public Domain" shouldn't be a big deal. NOW, that having been siad, I fully realize that any big "Festival" would require both extensive onsite comfort facilities AND onsite parking for that and other such equipment.
My take would be to start SMALL, (if possible.)
But this is all spaculative. ;)
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..a farmer turned his corn field into a maze during the fall.
So you're saying he turned his maize field into a maze field?
(Ba-dum-bum!) ;D
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Pete,
combine a farmers market / fair with a Threshers display and you've got a winner.......... Anyone know a local lobsterman in Wiscasset who'd "bring the claws"???? (wishful thinking ;D)
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Y'know, I like that idea more and more.
I can see an event that'd combine a few things here:
1) Food, ie: lobster/clambake, harvest-type goodies, BBQ or the like,
2) Demonstrations, ie: tractors/threshers, the sawmill at Alna Ctr, antique engines; steam AND diesel, maybe even atique autos and firetrucks etc.
We see stuff like this at the picnic, why couldn't it show up again around harvest time?
And there's no reason it need be a huge "Fairground-sized" event either, NOR would ALL the action need be at AC. There's plenty of room if you spread stuff out at both locations.
Hey, maybe the threshers display could help sell the idea to Mr Albee by haying his field for him. ;) ;D
All just thoughts.
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Now you're talkin'........ Trains, tractors, BBQ & Lobster... :P
I am soooooo there........ ;D
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Sounds like you all would like to ATTEND one of these events. I've yet to hear a single one of you offer to organize it, promote it, staff it and in general, work your tail off to make it happen.
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Well said Steve. Here, here!
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Steve,
You don't comment too often but you do manage to nail it when you do. Amen.
Duncan
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For many of us, we would love nothing more than to be there all the time. Reality is that our jobs and family commitments keep us hundreds if not thousands of miles away. Speaking for myself, I know what it takes to do these things. Been there - done that. That's why I have advocated partnering with others in order to "simplify" the process, learned that the hard way. If some of these events were during the summer, then I would presume you would see more participation from those "long distance" supporters as it would work with vacation schedules. It is not reasonable to expect people to participate in a one-day or weekend event when they also must add-on 10+ hour drives just to get there. In today's world, many simply cannot get off of work for extended periods of time and keep their jobs.
That said, in addition to financial support, what we can provide is ideas and suggestions on events that either we have worked on or have organized ourselves - that are proven winners.
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John,
I, for one, understand quite well where you are coming from. I have a 4 hour drive to reach the museum. However, I enjoy coming to assist where and when I can. To this end I have arranged my time so that I come to both work weekends and arrange for accomodations in the area nearby the museum as do many others. Perhaps you and others who are a greater distance away can find a way to visit and help out physically as well as financially. It isn't necessary that you do so and I don't think the museum expects folks who are 10+ hours away to come on a regular basis but the museum is always happy to welcome those who do come to help out.
Duncan
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How about one of these (or similar era piece) at Sheepscot Station? Vending popcorn, hot dogs, cold drinks and ice cream.
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Those are interesting... does anyone know if you need a Victualer's License to operate something like this...if it's "mobile"
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I believe victualer license is a Commonwealth of Massachusetts name for a vendor's license. No doubt Maine has a vendor's licenses. They are usually no problem to acquire.
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A great idea - and an ice cream stand or pop corn stand would fit in well with stories that old timers have told about taking the train down to Wiscasset for an ice cream cone. - - But again- WHERE WOULD WE STORE It? and with the trouble we have getting people to man the train and the museum store on Sundays - who would man (woman) it?
We have already reached the point of too many outbuildings at Sheepscot (more would be clutter IMHO) and still need a toilet building, a fire resistant enginehouse, and a car shop to even house all the steel flanged vehicles we have or are now building. (Vern says the second handcar is almost done, and then on to the the two person velocipede, and Jason and Leon are working to finish the model T railcar. We will also need the tank car (to original WW&F plans in the Maine State Museum) before we can run trains down the mountain.
We can't keep building buildings that will only house one or two handcars at the price of making Sheepscot visually challenged to the photographer.
So much to do - and so little time........
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While it would be best if the museum owned and operated a period concession wagon/stand, perhaps a local resident would like the concession for selling ice cream, popcorn, etc. The purpose is to add "value" to our passenger's visit and thus draw more riders. Even if the "locals" only stop by for a Sunday afternoon ice cream cone, they might decide to take the train or shop our book store or join us.
Being out in the woods and away from US 1, we need all the ideas and help that we can get to increase ridership/visits. More riders means more members equals an improved bottom line. The improvements in parking and the addition of restrooms should open us up to the charter bus trade.
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Y'know, I like the "mobile-food-wagon" idea also, particularly because it wouldn't, necessarily have to be stored at the museum, but also wouldn't be limited to operating only at the museum itself. If I lived in area and had the startup cash I'd concider such an operation myself.
Well, the "AA Dream" came to fruition,... who knows. ;)