W.W.&F. Discussion Forum
WW&F Railway Museum Discussion => Work and Events => Topic started by: Jason M Lamontagne on February 25, 2017, 08:17:59 PM
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Hello,
The board discussed a basic priority list for Spring Work Weekend in 2017.
1. Make main line extension down the mountain serviceable for work movements.
2. Repair sheepscot station platform
3. Complete door project in coach 8. (Edit)
4. Humason trestle retaining wall (Edit)
5. Possibly extend the mill siding.
6. Main line maintenance.
7. Possibly begin a spur into ML&M.
The lower numbers are more iron clad than the higher ones, though we still have time to optimize the list.
Jason
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Item 7 is an interesting project. Combined with our woods track for loading onto RORO trailers it would provide the WW&F with a customer who could transfer his projects to and from his shops via our parking lot and railway.
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Since Randy has created a big hole in coach 8, am I to assume finishing the first baggage door will also be a project?
Bill
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ML&M?
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Ira,
Maine Locomotive & Machine Works.
I had to think about it to figure it out.
Their shop is where we were going to put the saw mill at one time.
Bill
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I'm curious how a siding to ML&M would be arranged, since it looks like a steep climb. Is there room for a switchback?
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Phil,
I believe the thinking is to cut in a switch several hundred feet uphill (northbound) from the grade-crossing and then a gradual grade up to the shop. I'll let Mike fill in the details as I seem to remember he had scoped this out in detail a while back.
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Oops, yes, there's a big hole in coach 8! I'll edit the post...
Jason
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The ML&M siding would be their project as far as grading. We would or could do the surveying, but ML&M has a contractor that could do the work in our ROW as an easy addition to the work performed on the ML&M property. Our trackwork would end at the limit of our ROW.
The switch would have to be a north facing switch. Grade would be managable, but for safety a derail will be used. The open rail type. Could be like half a stub. But unless the ground firms up quickly, installing a switch may be all we can get done.
One add though Jason. Retaining wall at Humason?
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You're right, Mike, thanks!
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I think mill siding extension should be a lower priority than main line work.
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I'd like a load or Two of ballast put on the switch for the TOM siding as nothing heavy can go over it until that's done, no even the rail car.
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If we have enough ballast, perhaps we could taper ballast out 30 to 60 feet into the siding to balance the stress on the switch.
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In my personal opinion, Mill siding work can be done with a smaller crew maybe on a normal Saturday or planned track extension day in the summer. But the neglected main line should really be priority over the siding. Although the main line is still in decent shape, my fear is if we continue to do "preventative maintenance" in the near future we will need to put a lot of work into it. What currently needs to be done is more than any ONE man or even five man crew can handle by themselves. Where as the siding can be done with a crew of 5-10 which could potentially be organized in the summer.
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I'd like a load or Two of ballast put on the switch for the TOM siding as nothing heavy can go over it until that's done, no even the rail car.
Lack of ballast also makes walking on it or near it a bit hazardous.
-John M
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I had though about that plan also Joe. We will have to keep the track clear from Alna Center to TOM while doing ballast. Doing the ballast could keep about Thirty people busy. Others could tamp South of Alna Center. Of course all this could change at the last minute.
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Your point is well taken, Joe. Let's remember that on Saturday, we usually have enough track volunteers to split the crew, while on Friday and Sunday there's usually only enough for one crew. We can discuss making the priority for Satirday's split off crew main line maintenance.
Getting the mountain extension serviceable for Mike this summer must remain top priority for the track crew.
I want to talk to Dana about a possible special day for the mill siding at ToM- if it gets laid into the woods a bit, we can do a building layout this summer.
See ya
Jason
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TOM is only graded to the woodline. Would need a few dry days this summer to get the recently cut section ready for track. No large stumps there so that will make it easier.
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Good points Mike.
That is another good reason why the Board and our local folks make the hard choices.
Bill
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I have to agree with Joe here. We sorely need to spend some time on the track, raising joints, surfacing and even changing out a few rails, to improve the quality of the ride. This is not only better for the passengers, it's better for the equipment. This vital work keeps being pushed off, in the apparent belief that it will be done at another time. Every time someone wants to organize a work crew to do track maintenance, no one shows up. And with the new proposed schedule with the first train out at 10:30 a.m., the work window shrinks even more. This is going to come back and bite us someday.
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In my personal opinion, Mill siding work can be done with a smaller crew maybe on a normal Saturday or planned track extension day in the summer. But the neglected main line should really be priority over the siding. Although the main line is still in decent shape, my fear is if we continue to do "preventative maintenance" in the near future we will need to put a lot of work into it. What currently needs to be done is more than any ONE man or even five man crew can handle by themselves. Where as the siding can be done with a crew of 5-10 which could potentially be organized in the summer.
Joe is correct. Last year a small crew of four put in the TOM switch in three days, and we were novices. If memory serves the track was later put in by another small team.
Bill
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A couple minor points of correction.
The new schedule creates a wider work window- the former schedule had the first train out at 10:00 and the last one out at 3:30. New schedule calls for 10:30 and 3:00.
Joe has made a great effort to try to organize dedicated track days- but his real work schedule typically prevents him from announcing it more than a few days in advance. By that time there is often other work scheduled that can't rightly be ignored. Even st that- there have been successful efforts to put together track maintence crews. Granted, not nearly enough. I know Joe's perspective is coming from that of changing many ties alone.
We'd like to get into a pattern of scheduling track work days farther in advance- preferably a regular program of, say, first and third Wednesdays, or Saturdays, of the month or some such.
As for work weekend- I'm looking into changing some of the lower priorities to favor maintenance. The mountain work must remain top priority as our permit with the Army Corps has a work window and an expiration date.
See ya
Jason
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I'll concede the extra half hour on the morning schedule. I thought the first train was at 11 a.m. Regardless, a track gang realistically has less than three hours to go out and get some work done before it has to clear up for the first train. Obviously, spot tie replacement work could take place under traffic, but it must be carefully planned and coordinated, but surfacing low joints or changing out rails is another story. Perhaps the better idea would be to organize a track gang with some of the regular weekday folks once or twice a month, even for four hours or so in the morning. Track maintenance is not as glamorous as building new track or working on equipment, but it needs to be done.
What are the parameters of the Corps of Engineers work permit? What's the expiration date? How far down the mountain does it extend? What can we do, and what are we not permitted to do?
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A once or twice a month, 4 hour session, weekday track program is just what we've been discussing. It was meant to be implemented last summer, but the turntable consumed all of our weekday resources.
The Army Corps permit is Mike's domain so he can correct or elaborate as needed. The first permit authorizes repair of the first, large washout, and two minor corrections north of it (install a culvert to drain a ditch and repair a minor washout).
The work window ends in early October. Generally, Mike needs to finish some prep work before then, allowing a major (fall work weekend) project to complete the large washout repair. The fall work weekend part of the project is out of the Army Corps' preview, but only if Mike finishes the prep work in the work window.
I believe the expiration is 2 years. That leaves the following summer's work window to complete the next two minor repairs under this permit. After that, another permit will be sought for the next two years of work.
I'm being vague on details as the permit hasn't formally been approved yet- although the Army Corps rep has indicated that it'll will be.
Once it is formally approved, I'm sure Mike will announce the details of the plan. It's a very interesting and fun plan.
See ya
Jason
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Fair enough.
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For what it's worth, I could attend a Friday work session. Mid-week would be much harder.
Any possibility of a couple/few Saturday track work sessions once the weather breaks, before Saturday trains resume in May? And/or a Sunday work session or two in May, before the Sunday train schedule starts?
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Changing ties is not much fun, and maybe we can coordinate something to change as many as we can in May and early June. I estimate we will have around 30 to 40 ties to replace this year, which includes the left overs from last year.
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I do like the dedicated work days. We used to have volunteers show up just to do track work in the morning, and by announcing a dedicated day or days a month, I think some will be able to plan to help again.
Army Corps Permit outlines the dirt work portion only. Any earthwork needs to be completed by October 1. If all goes well, I should have all permit required work done before then, and all we have to do is fill in some low spots, which do not require permits.
I need to set up a DEP site visit, end of March and get their blessing, and also Jason and I can discuss the future projects on the Mountain with them to get a sense of direction we may need to take, or find out what we need to do to be able to do what we want, which is restore the ROW.
Our one visit with the Army Corps rep went very well and was very informative. And I expect the same from the DEP.
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Though weekends are usually my free time, I could make a weekday track day if there was enough warning.
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Email from Stan Swanson:
Ralph Harris and I will be up for work weekend next week so we are checking in to see how our carpentry skills might best be utilized. New passenger car perhaps? Looking forward to seeing you all.
Any ideas, please respond here and I'll get back to him.
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The two carpentry projects are:
* Boxcar #67
* Rebuilding / leveling the north end of the Sheepscot station platform.
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The latest version of the work weekend track crew plan looks roughly like this:
Thursday: crew 1: run stone to MP 7 lift areas
Friday: crew 1: run stone to Mountain extension
Saturday: crew 1: lift and shovel tamp Mountain extension
Saturday: crew 2: finish running stone to Mountain extension, then finish running stone to MP 7 lift area, then lift and power tamp MP 7
Sunday: crew 1: finish tamping mountain and MP 7, in that order.
Note one crew only both Friday and Sunday. Saturday two track crews only if sufficient help on hand.
See ya
Jason
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MP 7 area will be pretty most of the track from Rosewood to Albees. Hopefully we can dress the areas that don't get lifted, as much of that area needs stone.
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I have yet to complete this, but May 1 is coming up. That is the requested delivery date for the 4- 4 foot culverts that are on order. I need to build an elevated staging area next to the rail pile in the parking lot. Probably above the crane turntable pieces to save space. This will be temporary storage for the culverts that are coming in. This will allow rolling the pipe off the trailer and not having to lift it.
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Per Weather Underground, except for a possible T-shwr Friday, should be dry and mild, 50s-60s, Wednesday through Sunday.
Deluge us away-ers with tons of work pics!
Safe work, everyone.
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Can someone give me an update on the Bath Bridge and if traffic is an issue for getting up 1 to Wiscasset? Last fall several locals were suggesting traveling up via Richmond to avoid Bath.
Bill
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I would just go through Bath. The viaduct project has proven to be extremely well planned and executed- its three weeks ahead of schedule and almost done (they're paving today). The planning extends to the traffic plan; you might get a 5 or 10 minute delay; Richmond would add an hour or more.
See ya
Jason
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I definitely agree with Jason -- I haven't had any issues driving through Bath during the viaduct construction.
- Bill
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What Bill said. I was suprised how far along they were when I was up in January.
Jeff S.
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I agree. It has only slowed us down by about a minute but you are able to be a sidewalk superintendent and observe the progress while you wait for the light.
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Again I have to work so no SWW for me but I just made my reservation for the FWW since I'll finally be RETIRED!!! ;D
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Congrats, John. You're gonna love the Big R! ;D
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Re Bath viaduct: they have been ahead of schedule all winter (some warm spells helped a lot). We've been driving through back and forth most of the time, and there has only very rarely been any delay at all (except during BIW shift changes).
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John congrats on your impending retirement. But be advised, the seven years I've been retired I have never been busier. Bill
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Start time for tomorrow (Fri)? My Son is coming up for the weekend.
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Typically show up around 7 AM at the museum.
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Start time for tomorrow (Fri)? My Son is coming up for the weekend.
Usually the first "work train" of the day departs by 8am or so. But there are plenty of projects going on. In short, please come when you can - we'll find something for you and your son to do.
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Workers arrive through out the day during the weekend, and there are trains to shuttle the not so early risers to the work site, or there are lots of other projects in the yard area to be completed.
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Work Weekend pics
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/bbarry74/wws17/DSC_0922.jpg)
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WOW another great visual story!
Tom C.
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Great photo story, Brendan. Thanks so much.
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Very, Very good!!!
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Very, very good! All accessible to your friendly local newsletter editor, too. ;D ;D
-John M
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Great work! Roughly how far is the end-of-track from the first washout?
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Great work! Roughly how far is the end-of-track from the first washout?
About 50 feet or so.
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When Operation Washout #1 Fill starts, will the track be extended closer?
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No track can be constructed until more grading is done to the washout, and it gets filled in. Depending on how things go, the plan is to have the hole filled in by fall, and lay rail next spring. However that is subject to change.
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Actually, rail will be laid up to the washout temporarily, to allow the use of Ichabod to set the culverts in place. Once culvert is in, rails will be moved back to allow for grading if needed.