W.W.&F. Discussion Forum
WW&F Railway Museum Discussion => Work and Events => Topic started by: Mike Fox on January 15, 2017, 06:18:30 PM
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I started work this weekend on the conversion of this trailer from road to rail. Boards were removed and burned, leaving the center board for support when I cut the cross members.
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0115170936_zpsevkq2rla.jpg)
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0115171325_zpsrsqfnfbw.jpg)
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Where will you get the rail running gear? Will it have a suspension?
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Mag-lev
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Road axles are coming off. 2 new frame pieces will be cut into the cross members, approximately 30 inches apart. Springs will be relocated to the new frame, one set in front and one set in the rear, with a single axle under the front of the deck, and a single axle at the rear of the deck, where the rear axle is now.
We are reguaging a set of 14" wheels on 36" axles to put under the car. The car will also be narrowed up about a foot and a half, by trimming off everything outside of the original frame, to get the width to about 6' 6".
Also am planning some feet in the future, if this spring arrangement works out. The feet will hang down under the car so if the excavator is being used to the side the car will not tip, and be designed in such a way they can be folded up under the car to be out the way when not needed.
Hoping to have it done quickly and move onto other projects..
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Great project Mike! What is the history of your wheel sets and what diameter axles to they have?
As a more efficient alternative to using the tip cars to fill the large washouts/slides we must fill I had thought to myself that it might be possible to mount a dump truck body (possibly a cool antiquish one) to a frame on some sort of wheel sets. Given the narrow wheel base, it concerned me that it might become unstable as the body and load rose. To counter this I thought that outriggers similar to those used on railroad steam cranes could be deployed. It appears that they used steel outriggers which telescope in and out of box tubes affixed below the crane's frame. A little time consuming to deploy at each dump but probably faster than using the tip cars due to the larger capacity. Just a thought.
Keep up the good work.
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The tip cars may be small, but would work in a pinch. The 3 we picked up this summer need some TLC to get rolling again, but are probably worth the effort. A car with a dump body on it would be great, but then we would need more axles.
As far as the history behind the wheels I am unsure.
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Jason, you have been around me too long............
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Well gee whiz. If we got the tip car fleet going, we could re-enact a cranberry bog sand train with the tip cars and the Brookville!
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Still on the dump truck body idea - could we weld an old dump body to a steel skid or frame which could be temporarily placed at the end of one of the flat cars? It may need a counter weight at the other end of the car and still need outriggers which could be mounted to the dump frame. Just excited to see us head north and trying to think of ways to get the yardage of material we'll need out there. It might be nice to be able to dump from the end rather than the side as well. If we go with the tip cars can we build some sort of temporary trestle using standard framing material so that we are dumping directly into the washout rather than at it's edge? Has anyone done a yardage estimate of the material needed for the first fill?
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First washout I estimated at 165 yards +/-. There is a small washout 400 feet north, it is going to need about 20 - 25 yards, but may gain some when installing a culvert nearby, so that could wind up being only a flat car load.
The dump idea would work, and we have discussed it around Sheepscot, and even had a dump body in mind. But it limits the amount you can haul per load. My thought is using a flat car, shovel off the sides into the hole. I have a design in mind for a temporary trestle, and need to draw it up so all the figuring can be done and approved. Also need to grab my bridge book back from Jason..
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(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0121171511a_zpsnnl46yqs.jpg)
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0121171511_zpse3avwi7g.jpg)
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Mike:
What did you say the wheel base was to be? I read 30"?
4 wheel rigid (no swivel truck) yes?
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Wheel base will be about 10 feet. The two new frame members I need to put in will be a little over 30 inches, final determination will be made after the bearings arrive, which have yet to be ordered, which I hope to do this week.
It will be a 4 wheel sprung set up. No trucks. One axle towards the front, and one at the back of the flat part of the deck.
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AFAIK, your 1015 conversion will involve: stripping deck/street equipment, narrowing existing framework to conform to WW&F width clearances , welding two parallel , longitudinal, main frame members 30 inches apart sitting on leaf springs attached to a pair of axles each ten feet apart, riding on 16-inch rail wheels, with hinged stability "feet" to prevent tipping or rollover (somewhat similar to mobile cranes), with "link and pin" fittings at each end for towing, a replacement deck for track/fill materials transport, with side boards?
Can't wait for construction, along with box 67.
Competent design and construction is always fun to cheer on. ;D
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I would say no fill will be hauled on this, but one never knows. There will be no sideboards.
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I would say no fill will be hauled on this, but one never knows. There will be no sideboards.
Plainly this is just for WW&F's new TOFC (Tractor On Flat Car) service. ;D
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Paul, look at the last posted photo. The front rail axle/wheels will be located where the trailer cross members are missing. The rear rail axle/wheels will replace the rear set of highway tires.
Car 1015 was measured. It is now 6'7" wide.
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Sunday I spent a couple hours in my shop (next to the woodstove) and did some drilling. These are adapter plates, to mount the bearings to the springs.
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0312171852a_zpsr58fpmcm.jpg)
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I have been busy making pieces. New spring mounts (with one bolt through them) new spring sliders ( U shaped ) and the mounts for the new bearings (2 bolts sticking out through) that will mate with the 5 hole plate to mount to the springs.
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0325171904_zpsf8i9omet.jpg)
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And this morning, this happened.
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0326171214a_zps1tntur6t.jpg)
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0326171214b_zps9ujystvx.jpg)
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The welds I can see look neat and tidy. Nice.
See ya
Jason
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The key to good looking welds is thick paint
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"Welds" is a plural four letter word anyway.
We have riveting machines, you know...
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This looks GREAT, Mike!!
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Great work, Mike!
I have a much better idea of what you're doing now. It kind of reminds me of a heavy-duty version of the 4-wheel railbus trailers on the SR&RL.
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The value this car will add can't be understated. In addition to allowing us to get our own earth moving equipment to the mountain, which ensures quality control, it will also give us never before seen machine access to mow, change ties, ditch, and an number of other jobs which should be routine. We need it...
See ya
Jason
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I can't wait to see this never seen before machine..
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Here's one I've never seen before...
(http://www.alphaplatforms.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/l-50l-1024x683.jpg)
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Put a steam boiler on that big metal spider and we'd have a THING!!!
See ya
Jason
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Anyone else in fear that this discussion is about to get "moderated?"
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I think NASA launched a smaller one of these to Mars a few years back.......
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Impressive work, Mike.
Jeff S.
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I'll bet Mike has already began to design some hi-rail gear for this ;)
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See if WW&F can get somebody to donate this mini cherry picker.
Wonder if Home Depot rents these yet? They do bigger ones.
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Well there are some wheels kicking around..would make a nice platform to shoot pictures and video from
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Snow day today, so I did a little puttering in my shop around the woodstove. I have gotten 2 of the bearing mounts assembled onto the springs.
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0401171909_zpsnbtkgflw.jpg)
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0401171908_zps5lonsiq1.jpg)
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The modified tongue of the equipment car looks like this. It is still upside down. Kept this as a storage area.
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0429171747_zpssrmzvqnw.jpg)
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The storage area is working great- just as designed.
Car looks great. Getting wheels done is a priority.
see ya
Jason
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Any flat surface becomes instant storage. You guys are going to miss having a table so close to your work.
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Man, those wheels are going to take a long, long time to finish...
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At least the paint will be dry then
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At least the paint will be dry then
I saw a picture of Bryce and Dan sitting on it. I hope it was dry then, or they'll suffer from Yellow Butt.
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Lumber for the decking is now soaking in water. It needs to be bent Saturday during installation, and ringing wet is the way to do it.
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Mike...I'm suspecting you are building in a slanted, load/unload ramp end. Can't wait to see the results!
Is re-gauging the axles a challenge?
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Not a challenge for me Paul. I let the machine shop crew figure that out. Jason made a plan, and they are almost done. Decking Saturday will really change the looks of the car.
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Some of the decking getting ready for bending.
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0518171933_zpsijvplmhv.jpg)
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Where did the goldfish go? ;D
I think a bunch of us can't wait for this RowMow Rollout!
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I'm surprised that the beavers didn't grab some good lumber! ;D
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We did it. It took all day, several drill bits, some rotating help and 3 trips to the hardware store by Fred and one by Leon, but the deck is done.
Here is the first piece. Shows the bend. No relief cuts.
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0520170830_zpsqkzpovqr.jpg)
And here is the finished decking.
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0520171641_zpsmzflynut.jpg)
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0520171641a_zpsfka1zn4p.jpg)
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And Wednesday, Mark plans to paint the outside of the car with a second coat.
Hoping Saturday we can slide some completed wheels under it and call it done.
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Mike, aren't you afraid to leave that big of an empty horizontal surface where others can leave stuff?
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Love that swoopy, Italian sports car look! :D Knew you'd like it.
Nice work.
Will the deck be oiled? Here in NM, we're a mile closer to the sun, which manages to fry everything lt can get its rays on.
Are there tie-down loops in the deck's front corners?
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There are tie downs on the 4 corners. They are in some of the pictures as a loop.
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WOW! I can't wait for Monday! LOOK AT ALL THAT FLAT SPACE!!!!!
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I say it will only take half a day before the deck is covered with stuff. ;D
Nice work, Mike. I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of it on the rails.
Jeff S.
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The whole goal of 1015 involves filling washouts. Having "stuff" on board provides needed fill. ;D
'
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Mike,
A thought for the ROWMOW design team; would it be possible to create a dump trailer of similar design as 1005 by using the rear frame and tilt body from a junk 1 ton pickup/dump similar to what landscapers use? Figure an air actuated cylinder off the main brake line from the diesel. Just thinking out of the box.
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Why build a whole separate car? Why not just drive a small dump truck onto the existing (almost) ramp car and dump from it? Seashore Trolley Museum has a car which was specifically designed by the MBTA in Boston to do just that. The fact that they can also use it to move a dozer or a backhoe to a work site is a bonus.
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All of a sudden 1015, besides Big Joe, Ichabod, 1014, will be THE star of Operation Washouts.
After wheeling it and rolling it out this weekend, how about a parade? ;D
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I have seen trailers made from the bed of a pickup. Could something like this work as a vehicle to be placed on 1015 to dump fill into the washouts?
Jeff S.
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Jeff...see Wayne's post above.
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I'll re-ask the question I submitted before the forum crash - Mike, what is the weight capacity of 1015?
Jeff S.
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I answered that once Jeff. I guessed incorrectly because there was a crash shortly after. ????
Seriously though, we have changed the design of the original trailer. So I am unsure how much it can haul. The first loading of the dozer will be watched closely. I want to inspect everything before it moves. That is probably the heaviest thing we will move. If I had to guess a weight limit, about 10,000 pounds.
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Mike...hope your surprise axle prob works out, and Case-y behaves while riding.
Memorial Weekend gremlins hit WW&F. >:(
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(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0527171715_Burst01_zpsy0x0phkd.jpg)
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0527171715_zpsllfvcvfp.jpg)
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0527171714_zpsxkgkwp93.jpg)
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The reason I ask about capacity is that in one of the "lost" posts from this past weekend, Stewart proposed loading the dump truck that's at the WW&F onto 1015 to deposit fill at the first washout. I was wondering 1) will the truck fit? and 2) would a loaded dump truck exceed 1015's capacity?
Jeff S.
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Would not work too well. Wheels are too far under the car to be able to dump off the end like that. Car would try to do a wheelie. I can't imagine a dump bed working on a short car because of the shifting of weight. Unless you make a real heavy car, or a long car with some nose weight.
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Actually I asked about hauling the truck if it would fit on the trailer, now I know the answer. Thanks Mike.
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Oh, if it fits, it ships. ;D
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(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0603171553_zps3mxdsqzg.jpg)
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/0603171556_zpstrtoov7h.jpg)
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Oh man Mike! What a sweet little rig - hats off to you.........
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Looks great.
Where are the safety chains and tie downs?
Wheel chocks?
Thanks.
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This was only a test for loading/unloading. No tie downs, etc. because the car didn't move with the load. The excavator was driven off the car right after the photos were taken.
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Trigs..we can upgrade to a skate if we park it loaded. Chains will be added to the tiedowns. Semi-permanent. Plenty of binders hanging in the shop to complete the securing.
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Now we need to come up with a name for 1015.
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Now we need to come up with a name for 1015.
Fred already came up with one, but it's not worthy of repeating.
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Mike, what's your testing plan. I sort of assume the dozer is last?!
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Forget to say: Mike you're a genius on this one...
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I don't want all the credit. We had talked about it for a while, and finally decided it was time to act. I have put a lot of hours into the car, and am not done yet. More modifications planned for this winter. Need to install adjustable supports, at least one per side, to prevent the car from tipping when we use the excavator to mow from it.
Testing.. I think the only testing will be loading the dozer and try it around the yard. Through switches especially, just to see how the car acts.
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Great job, Mike.
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Does WW&F have an official MOW vehicles storage track?
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Just saw the photos. It great to see 1015 on the rails and with a load.
Jeff S.
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Now we need to come up with a name for 1015.
Fred already came up with one, but it's not worthy of repeating.
That's funny. I was going to suggest: "Fred."
Very nice, Mike. Thanks!
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Interesting way to "Hy-Rail" the Kubota.
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I hate to be the one to say this, but it appears we need a longer car barn.
With trepidation for the next line, perhaps we can put a siding on the woods track that runs thru a series of containers with the ends removed which would allow all the ROMO and MOW equipment to be stored out of the elements, and, with apologies to mike, since they are not historically correct, out of visitors view.
Bill
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On the other hand, when the roundhouse is built, there should be space in the shop for most of the MW fleet. In addition, at least a couple of pieces could be stored in the Whitefield section house along with the handcars. At least that's what I envisioned when I originally laid out the plans for that structure. And with regard to Bill's suggestion about containers, if we built a track car turntable, we could store the smaller pieces in another container set out next to the first one!
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F R E D
Flatbed
Railcar
Equipment
Delivery
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I like it Ira! Just like our Fred; go anywhere - do anything :)
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Ira,
You are so FRED, or such a clever guy.
Wayne,
Now that is out of the box thinking.... or perhaps it is "in" the box thinking.
Bill
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Is there room to tie in another spur, outside of and next to the unseen west car barn wall, with a simple, lean-to roof, maybe walls?
IIRC, that was formerly the site for storing Case-y, the mighty dozer.
BTW, I vote for 'FRED', the now-handy 1015. ;)
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F R E D
Flatbed
Railcar
Equipment
Delivery
Ira,
That is excellent.
Jeff S.
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Mike, do you have a "guesstimate" for the load capacity for FRED, a.k.a. 1015?
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10-12,000. Maybe a slight bit more. Our current equipment should be about as heavy as we should go. But, if we decide to go heavier, we can always make new spring hangars to fit the heavier springs. Or, if we omitted the sprongs all together, we could double the weight. The bearings, if I remember, are rated for 10,000 each.
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Has there been a test run of 1015 yet?
Jeff S.