W.W.&F. Discussion Forum
WW&F Railway Museum Discussion => Museum Discussion => Topic started by: John McNamara on June 19, 2016, 02:03:04 PM
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On Saturday (6/18) I took a ride on the Downeast Scenic Railroad in Ellsworth (http://www.downeastscenicrail.org (http://www.downeastscenicrail.org)). The consist had two restored coaches book-ending an open car that had folding chairs and picnic tables. The first and last quarters of the car were sheltered from the sun. Motive power was a 1950 ALCO S4 (#1055). A feature of possible interest to WW&F folks is that they sold snacks and bottled water both at the station and aboard the train. The price of these items was extremely reasonable - $1 each. The ride is quite long, 90 minutes, as it involves a trip north (with a run-around), followed by a trip south to the Washington Junction wye, followed by a return to the boarding area behind Cadillac Mountain Sports. BTW, the trips use the parking lot of the old Ellsworth station, now home of the Maine Community Foundation, managers of our endowment. :)
The runaround seemed to take quite a while. I wonder if that's because of dealing with the air brakes, and I wonder if dealing with our vacuum brakes will also lengthen the run-around time.
-John
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John, we took that trip a few years ago. A nice ride. Perhaps we should consider the snack option when we lengthen our ride. Maybe a snack bar at the run around point with restroom facilities (poly john)
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John, we took that trip a few years ago. A nice ride. Perhaps we should consider the snack option when we lengthen our ride. Maybe a snack bar at the run around point with restroom facilities (poly john)
The snack option was what I was thinking, especially since lack of food is the about the only complaint I've seen on TripAdvisor. There are two drawbacks: someone has to stock and sell the goodies, and there's more trash and crumbs.
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I'd also believe we need to be concerned about keeping things authentic. I think this means more to people that what we offer- they want the expeience offered to match their expectation of what 1910 looks like. We have some distractions from that authenticity now, however, we generally do a good job.
That being said, if we are to add something, how cool would it be if it was historically based like someone coming through the cars selling fruit, penny candy, etc. that would both serve a practical purpose and reinforce the authenticity of he experience. A win-win! As far as I know, no one in the U.S. Is doing anything like this, however several in the U.K. do and it is great!
Stephen
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I'd also believe we need to be concerned about keeping things authentic. I think this means more to people that what we offer- they want the expeience offered to match their expectation of what 1910 looks like. We have some distractions from that authenticity now, however, we generally do a good job.
That being said, if we are to add something, how cool would it be if it was historically based like someone coming through the cars selling fruit, penny candy, etc. that would both serve a practical purpose and reinforce the authenticity of he experience. A win-win! As far as I know, no one in the U.S. Is doing anything like this, however several in the U.K. do and it is great!
Stephen
Harvey Girls?
Keith
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Not Harvey Girls but News Butchers.
Tom C.
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Not Harvey Girls but News Butchers.
Tom C.
Personally I would prefer a Harvey House restaurant and some Harvey Girls!
Keith
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A couple of careers ago, I ran short line railroads. On a few occasions, we operated charter trains for local railfan clubs. On one trip, we had a combine with its baggage section set up as a snack car, with a counter, coolers, etc. They sold soda and various packaged snacks, as well as hot dogs. They did okay, but not great. The next time we did the trip, a couple of years later, the combine was not available, and instead we leased three coaches. The club folks had a couple of fellows carrying good-sized wicker baskets through the train every hour or so, peddling sodas and packaged snacks. They were sold out an hour or so before the trip was finished, and I believe they could have sold more if they'd had more supplies.
Of course, as mentioned above, selling soda and snacks means more cleanup and more trash, not to mention thoughtless folks throwing their empty cans and wrappers out the window. Someone would have to go through the train after every trip to clean up spills and crumbs, and the trash containers would need to be emptied on a regular basis. Any volunteers? Some serious consideration of the pros and cons must be given before embarking on this path. Personally, I favor no food or drinks on the train, but that's just me.
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Selling snacks on board may seem like a good idea, however then you need a license, trash cans, and keeping the cars clean will be terrible. I do not miss cleaning up soda spills or sweeping up popcorn, etc during trips. Not fun. Look at the ice cream social, similar thing.
However, if a snack bar were to be built, might I suggest utilizing a replica car like Coach 6 for example where the old mail counter could house the snacks and beverages with little to no changes and guests could ride in the car as well, and have a seat or two removed for handicap reasons.
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I'd also believe we need to be concerned about keeping things authentic. I think this means more to people that what we offer- they want the expeience offered to match their expectation of what 1910 looks like. We have some distractions from that authenticity now, however, we generally do a good job.
That being said, if we are to add something, how cool would it be if it was historically based like someone coming through the cars selling fruit, penny candy, etc. that would both serve a practical purpose and reinforce the authenticity of he experience. A win-win! As far as I know, no one in the U.S. Is doing anything like this, however several in the U.K. do and it is great!
Stephen
I think the biggest issue here at hand is that people want to have the 1910 experience without the 1910 inconveniences. One could offer say a breakfast biscuit wrapped in wax paper at the main station for the trip, or sell some small candies on the train en-route but honestly food was something that the passenger had to think of. Then you have the food licensing issues as well and all those issues. The only thing I can think of is if there were someone who could do a period food wagon on an old Ford or something like that or a food cart, period correct.
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I believe we've had this discussion before. Concerns were raised at that time about litter, licensing, inspections, personnel, etc. As far as I know, nothing has changed with respect to any of those important issues. At the time, someone suggested vending machines, but they come with their own set of concerns. If we really, really feel the need to offer some sort of food, probably a food truck would be the best bet, with the operator paying the WW&F a percentage of his sales. At least that's my opinion.
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Until there is reason for the majority of visitors to spend more than a couple of hours at the museum, I believe there is little need for regular food service.
I do agree with the suggestions for an outside vendor if the need arises. I also agree with the sentiment that the vendor should support the historical and authentic experience that the WW&F is known for. A vendor that does not mesh well with, or deviates from what we are trying to accomplish could take away from the overall experience at the railway. Instead, any vendor should enrich the visitors experience not just in terms of offering convenience, but also authenticity.
Steve
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I'm not exactly sure how well "period food" would work. In general, people's diets and tastes have changed a lot since 1900 or even 1930. I can remember my mother talking about eating toast with bacon drippings on a fairly regular basis during the Depression, for example. How many 21st century visitors would line up for that?
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Bacon? I'm in.
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Not bacon, Mike. Just the grease. On bread.
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I don't think we need to run a chew chew train.
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no pun intended, I think we have enough on our plate right now with all the work we have planned now and in the future. We're trying to build a better railroad and museum. People can bring their own food!
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Food will be to costly for us. Until our train rides are 2+ hours a snack bar is really not needed. At Conway Scenic the snack bar made little to no money on the 55 minute trip.
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I just suggest that folks head up the road to the Alna Store.
Keith
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All good points. Plus, when we send folks to local businesses like the Alna Store, it helps reinforce our 'business to business' relationship and strengthen the community.
Steve
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I' still thinking about that bacon
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Bacon is the duct tape of lunch.
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Alna store is closed on Sundays - which is one of our usual public operating days.
I like the idea of period (or period looking) food truck/vendors for certain special events. An old-style popcorn/peanut vendor for example. Imagine taking the train to TOM and taking in a 1910-style baseball game, while the mills are operating and enjoying fresh popcorn or roasted peanuts. And/or take in a concert on a bandstand before the trip home.
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On Sundays I would suggest Spragues in Wiscasset.....they are our friends too.
We are trying to recreate a specific railroad in the early part of the Twentieth Century.
I doubt that the W&Q or WW&F ever had food service, nor would there have been ice cream trucks, hot dog wagons or pop corn wagons in evidence. I personally don't believe we need to ever be perceived as competition to those who provide food services in our area. If folks want to bring their own food....that is great and it would have happened back in the day too.
Keith
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Mmmm.....bacon.....
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no pun intended, I think we have enough on our plate right now with all the work we have planned now and in the future. We're trying to build a better railroad and museum. People can bring their own food!
Like I said before, people want the 1910 experience without the 1910 inconveniences, but in all honesty if one did not want to go hungry you brought your own food in 1910. Providing water is about all that the railroad should do, and that should be at the station in the form of a water jug "cooler".
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Having a food truck at Sheepscot and/or other stops to me makes maximum sense...no limited WW&F personnel nor major cleanup needed, preserves original historic on-board atmosphere. Could allow riders to bring their own eats.
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Having a food truck at Sheepscot and/or other stops to me makes maximum sense...no limited WW&F personnel nor major cleanup needed, preserves original historic on-board atmosphere. Could allow riders to bring their own eats.
I did do a bit of research and they did have "food wagons" (literally horse drawn wagons) and trucks during that time frame, but generally in larger urban areas, but if done in a period correct way could be an addition to the 1910 experience without the extra burden to the operations of the museum.
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In local paper here in MN was picture of antique popcorn wagon.
Since there are some anachronisms on campus a popcorn wagon would not be too out of place.
A modernish food truck in the parking lot (on the modern side of the line) run by others
would be a plus for larger events.
I doubt you could get anyone to come out on a normal week end.
Though I have been at train show flea markets where they have been in attendance.
Just my 4 ha'penny
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Museum already has a food vender at special events. Has for about the last two years.
dwight
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There you go then
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Well, then it should be settled. If you are going to goto the Museum for a "day" trip, pack a cooler for a picnic. Do people still do that anymore?
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Well, then it should be settled. If you are going to goto the Museum for a "day" trip, pack a cooler for a picnic. Do people still do that anymore?
I take a lunch every time I head to the WW&F. And my wife and I always take along a picnic basket and lunch when we take day trips.
Keith
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Well, then it should be settled. If you are going to goto the Museum for a "day" trip, pack a cooler for a picnic. Do people still do that anymore?
I take a lunch every time I head to the WW&F. And my wife and I always take along a picnic basket and lunch when we take day trips.
Keith
If I am taking a trip to a place that does not have food, I support myself. As far as going on a picnic, I have not done that in the states in a long time, but when I visit Japan I have done it a few times.
Rob
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In the pre-interstate highway system days, the main two-lane roads would have picnic areas along them. I remember stopping at them as a child. Mom would pack a picnic lunch when on a long trip. This was before fast-food emporiums were the norm.