W.W.&F. Discussion Forum
WW&F Railway Museum Discussion => Museum Discussion => Topic started by: Ed Lecuyer on November 29, 2008, 10:43:16 PM
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I was scouting around today on a line that is abandoned, but was not removed. It is the old Boston & Lowell branch to Lawrence. The rails survive from Wamaset (Near Lowell) to Tewksbury Center - but haven't seen a train in 20+ years.
Unfortunately, the main line does not have 60# rail.
However, at the end of the line in Tewksbury Center, there is a siding that appears (to my untrained eyes) to be 60#. The base of the rail is 4" across and the height is 4". (The mainline is 5" x 5".) I paced out about 150' of track.
I have no idea who owns the ROW (it may be the town) and access will have to involve cutting 20-30 years of growth, etc. There is a dirt road parallel to most of the track, however, and it runs behind the parking lots of several businesses.
Ok, I found it. Now what?
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Ed,
4" by 4" is generally 52# to 55 # rail and is not compatible with 60#. However, due to head wear it may be 60#. If you can get the lettering from the web of the rail, I can probabally decode it for you.
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I didn't get any lettering off the rail. The growth around it was too thick.
I suspect that someone who knows rail better than I should have a look at it. It might not even be usable due to its condition.
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Ed,
I live in Lowell and if you give me good directions I can go take a look at it.
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Hi Vincent.
Assuming you know something about rail, etc., I have emailed you specific directions on where the rail is.
Thanks.
-Ed
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Ed,
Mission completed, check your Email for a full report.
you can post the message here if you wish
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I so post the email that Vincent sent me.
Congratulations Ed,
The rail you found is ASCE 60#. The main is ASCE 85#. I also measured (with a verrrry long tape) the visible amount of 60# rail to be about 200ft. the siding itself measured about 700ft, with the first 200ft off the switch (after which it disappeared under some dirt) being well-worn 85#. All of the joint bars appear to be present.
The rail itself is in moderately good condition, with a few cracked heads (I counted 3, and all at the very end of the affected stiks) and one cracked base, also at the end of the stik. The ties near the switch also look good enough to use as relay ties, and the spikes, although rusty, apear usable.
I would suggest though, that if we get the rail, we take up the 85# as well and use it for trade to Kovalchic or any other vendor who will accept it, for 60#. It is in good condition and we would already be there with the necessary equipment to do so. And, even if the 60# went all of the way to the point where the 85# off of the switch disappears, it alone would not fill out a truck load.
Should the Museum go for this rail, I will be available to help remove it since I only live a 10 minute drive away.
Best of Luck,
Vincent LeRow
Ok, now what? If (and that is a big if) we get the rail, I can also help with removal (I'm about 25 minutes from there.) I might even be able to convince a few local friends to join us.
Also, something doesn't add up. You say the siding is 700 ft, but then that there is 200ft of 85# (near the switch) and 200ft from the dirt pile to the EOT. I only paced out the siding from where I guessed the transition from 85# to 60# rail occurred - so no surprise that my figure of 150ft is short. But, I didn't think there was an equal distance of 85# rail vs. 60# rail. There seemed to be much less of the 85# on the siding.
But then again, I'm a computer geek. What do I know about rail :-)
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The very first thing that must be done is determine the ownership of the material. Once that's determined, someone "official" has to ask the owner for the material. Someone has to decide whether it's worth the effort for 200 track feet of rail. A dozen 60-pound rails weighs a bit less than four tons, not much of a truckload. How many volunteers live near Lowell and would be willing to participate in a takeup party? I'm too far away, I know that.
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I live in lowell and know my way arround the tools, although i've never led a takeup party myself i am fully willing to participate as labor,
And wayne, as stated in the posted Email, it is probably a good idea to fill out the truckload with the 85# if we can get it cheap/free. it will make excelent trade-in rail. and we will already be on-site with the tools and equipment to remove it.
Anyone have an idea what 85# rail with joint bars sells for?
And Ed, Also, something doesn't add up. You say the siding is 700 ft, but then that there is 200ft of 85# (near the switch) and 200ft from the dirt pile to the EOT. I only paced out the siding from where I guessed the transition from 85# to 60# rail occurred - so no surprise that my figure of 150ft is short. But, I didn't think there was an equal distance of 85# rail vs. 60# rail. There seemed to be much less of the 85# on the siding.
The section in between the known 60# and the known 85# is a mystery to me. for that 100ft or so the brush and dirt were too thick for me to get an acurate measurement on any part of the rail for a definitive answer on the weight. that means it could be either 60, 85 or anything inbetween. Also the 85# that was on the siding had significant head wear, both sides of the head had a mushroom sticking out by nearly a 1/4 inch!
On an added note, it also looked like the bolts that I could see could be unscrewed, but the torch should be there anyway, and the ROW has good enough acess for a loader to drive right up to the rails on it.
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There are a number of members in the area including myself who would gladly make the trek. Wayne is indeed correct, we need to find who the owner is first.
KD
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me and dad live an around an hour and a half from there and would be in for the removal.
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Another reason to obtain this track is that when (not if) we cross Highway 218, we will need heavier rail to stabilize the crossing from truck traffic.
The 60# to 85# comp joints are like hen's teeth. Very rare and expensive. Just having the comp joint bars will make the icing on the cake.
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Hopefully an increase of that size will be sufficient for the state. I have seen some awfully tall rail on sidings across state Highways.
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Mike's got a good point. Most crossing upgrades I've seen involve ripping out existing 80-90 pound rail and replacing with something much bigger (117?), and I suspect heavy truck traffic considerations at Route 218 would dictate a similar choice. That being said, going from 60-pound to such a size would best be done in a couple of steps.
Of course if Cross Road is ever crossed, hopefully something a bit more "vintage"-appearing than high rail, rubber mats, flashers and gates, etc. would be acceptable to the Town.
Ira is correct, any compromise bars are worth grabbing, if only for future trading stock.
Jon Chase
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I have said this already, but I don't think I can say it enough.
We should get the 85# rail as well if we can get a good deal on it and then trade it for more 60# that we can use.
It may also be a good idea to hang onto 6 to 12 stiks of 85# for the future crossings. That weight is already far too heavy for our light stock and engines(comparitively using 200# for the same era equipment on std. gauge), begging the question: Do we really need anything heavier?
If the crossing is built properly the weight of the rail shouldn't depend on the weight of the vehicles using the road, but only the frequency that it is used by both trains and vehicles. (the primary causes of wear)
And Jon, the heavier 117#? rail you mention is for std. gauge crosings with rail equipment that is over ten times as heavy as our stock. Such that 80-90# rail couldn't handle the axle loading of the trains passing over it anymore. The heads on those rails are probably pretty well worn down too from beig in use from(a guess on my part) at least WWII . Crossing upgrades aren't done very often, because they are niether cheap or convenient.
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The weight of the rail in the crossing is to make a more stable base. By welding two lengths, you eliminate any joints in the crossing, cutting down on maintenance.
About 17 years ago, I installed an Omni crossing on a 2' railroad where we built an entirely new crossing. It was about 160' long crossing. The base was concrete with studs and clips to secure the rail. Then the Omni rubber inserts were installed.
The requirement by the design engineers for the crossing was to support the weight of very large firetrucks. The rail used was new 12#. The trick was the reinforced concrete track base.
The crossing is still in use and shows no significant wear.
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I am afraid I disagree with the need to get end-battered 85 lb rail for any reason. Trading $100 a ton end-battered & therefore scrap 85 lb for $1000 a ton 60 pound is not worth the volunteer effort and the $500 to get it trucked to Maine.
Now - any 60 lb rail that is not end-battered, and the joint bars (and compromise bars) are very worth the effort.
State of Maine specs for grade crossings are a phone call away, and if by some chance they require 85 lb rail , this weight of rail is still a dime a dozen in New England as it was the standard weight of NH Branch Lines for years.
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The 85# on the siding is end battered, but the 85# remaining on the maineline is not. No mater what we salvage, we wll have to pay $500 for the truck; whether it's 400ft of 60# rail or 20 tonnes of whatever. I am simply saying 'get the most bang for the buck'. A half empty truck is partially wasted money. And $100 a ton recived is 4 times the $25 a ton spent to truck it to Maine.