W.W.&F. Discussion Forum
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stephen Hussar on October 17, 2011, 06:00:16 AM
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http://www.amctv.com/hell-on-wheels/videos/inside-hell-on-wheels-building-the-train
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That's cool.....
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Considering the research they did and the money they must have spent, it's really not that well done. Glaring omissions are the valve rods into the steam chests, no whistle or pop valves at the top of the steam dome, and many other small things too numerous to mention. I give it a B- overall. The late Wilbur Frey could have done better in his wood shop at Sierra Vista! I'm sure the average TV viewer will have no clue and think it's the real deal.
Richard Symmes
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Well, It's not the Emma Sweeny but it'll do for some quick scenes.
Stewart
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"Emma Sweeny"? Wasn't that the fake locomotive they used in the 1950s western movie, "Ticket to Tomahawk"? If so, that was really well done. Later on it was used for the sound stage scenes of the TV show "Petticoat Junction", standing in for Sierra RR 4-6-0 #3 which was used in the location shots.
I believe that replica still exists and is on display somplace out west. My point was, if you are going to spend all that time, money and energy, why not go the extra bit and make it right? This latest creation looks like something the "steam punk" crowd would have dreamed up.
Richard Symmes
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Richard you're right. Emma was built for the movie Ticket to Tomahawk. It was built using the original RGS plans so everything is scaled just right. If I remember correctly, it was in the Silverton scene when it was pulled by horses. It still exists in a park in CA. Even though it's wooden it still looks good. This proves that you can make a good replica for production work if someone knows what they are doing and have the right plans. In the 1950's there were a lot more folks around who knew steam and what it looked like. This new production wouldn't have that advantage so IMHO they should have borrowed Emma.
Stewart
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"Emma Sweeney" was a full-size replica of Rio Grande Southern 4-6-0 No. 20 now under restoration at Strasburg for the Colorado Railroad Museum. The replica is currently displayed in California. It was recently sold and was to be returned to Durango, where it was to be placed on display in the park where 2-8-0 No. 315 used to be. However, someone in California instigated a lawsuit to keep it from being relocated. That's where it stands, as far as I know.
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I can't wait for the show to start. Sounds like a great story line.
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At least they used steel wheels. Hopefully they'll be using enough CGI steam to keep people from seeing the glaring omissions.
In that video I was trying to figure out what was powering the train, but couldn't see it. They did say they would digitally remove it afterward.
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There was a yellow trackmobile at the end of the train, or sometimes sandwiched between the tender and coach. It was hard to spot given the angles they were shooting at.
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The "building the transcontinental railroad" idea was used once before in a TV series way back in the mid-50s. It was called "UNION PACIFIC" and was a low budget syndicated western series starring a little-known actor named Jeff Morrow. He was a "trouble shooter" for the railroad and had to solve various problems with Indians, outlaws, weather, terrain, etc. It used mostly "stock shots" of trains from old movies, and occasionally a few location shots with some old engine (maybe one of the Virginia & Truckee RR engines). Most of it was shot on a soundstage with the same bunch of extras pretending to lay some fake track across a really bad piece of phony "scenery" consisting of papermache boulders, cactus and trees. Really bad. Hopefully this new entry will at least look more realistic. Although, some CGI effects are way over the top, almost worse than the old model effects they replaced. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Richard Symmes
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Why couldn't they have gotten "Leviathan"?
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Remember, it's not only a tv series, but a cable tv series. My sense is that is would be too expensive to lease and transport a real working steam powered trainset for such a program (depending on the schedule it can cost between $200-$300k)
Another possible factor is that the "Art Department" usually insists on painting the locomotives black...
Stephen
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Remember that most people's understanding of steam locomotives comes from Tasha Tudor's paintings in Little Golden Books from the '40s and '50s. It'll do fine. And as Stephen knows, Hollywood puts in magic that'll make everything look exciting.
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You know, Jock, that's a good point!
These guys looked back at actual photos of period engines and did the best they could to get it as close as possible.
Let's salute them for the effort and for making the train a central character in a CATV show.
Honestly, how often does THAT happen these days?
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Still no excuse for mediocrity. A little extra work would have made it right. "OK" is rarely good enough.
I remember a full page illustration for a story in the Saturday Evening Post back in the 60s. The story concerned a Civil War train wreck. The artist who did the illustration was obviously using an American Flyer S Gauge "General" as a research source because he had included all the large slotted screw heads in the undercarriage of the wrecked locomotive, and other things which only would have been on a model.
See my first post above.
Richard
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Yes, up close it is rough looking, and looks odd "to us." I actually think their bigger problem is that it's very likely going to shake itself apart before the first season is finished shooting.
Stephen
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Did anyone watch the premiere of "Hell on Wheels" last night? Verdict?
To me it looked like "The Walking Dead" meets "How the West Was Won". Shot in dreary "sepia", it was like "Deadwood", with trains. I noted the shot of the track showed nice crushed stone ballast. I'm not aware that either the UP or CP used anything other than gravel or sand out there.
The "locomotive" visibly had no interior mechanisms, as you could see right through the undercarriage in the side shots. Great big "Titanic" rivet heads abounded. The 1960s TV series, "Wild, Wild West" came to mind. I expected to see Robert Conrad ("James T. West") jump off the engine. Thanks to CGI, reality should be easier than ever to replicate, but instead we get this sort of thing.
The show itself wasn't much better. I doubt it will be back for a second season, whether or not they reach "Promontory".
Richard
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See I thought it was good for a modern western not as good as Deadwood. But as for the locomotive or locomotives there looked like two? A 4-4-0 and a 2-6-0? Could not tell on the latter. But I will continue watching may get better or worse.
Mike Arnold
www.twinforksnrhs.org