W.W.&F. Discussion Forum
WW&F Railway Museum Discussion => Museum Discussion => Topic started by: Stephen Hussar on July 15, 2011, 06:40:22 AM
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Would it be possible to add Lempor-style ejector to No 9, keep it invisible, and would there be any advantage to doing so? Also, is there room in the smokebox for a No 10-style drafting spark arrestor, and Lempor system?
Stephen
(http://www.trainweb.org/tusp/lempor/image1.gif)
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Stephen,
There are members who know a lot more about steam technology than I but here's a thought. If the diffuser part of the stack is tapered it would have to be hidden inside the original Portland Company straight stack. Since it would probably be smaller than the plan you posted it would restrict draft. The design specs a Sweeney type stack that would be hard to hide in a straight stack.
My $.04 (adjusted for inflation)
Stewart
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Thanks, Stewart...does the stack have to be tapered per the diagram? Is the taper of the stack part of the equation?
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Didn't the Mt. Washington Cog Ry try this exhaust design on one of their locomotives a number of years ago? I seem to recall seeing pictures of it. From what I've heard, it didn't work out all that well. Does anyone know more about that?
Richard Symmes
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If I remember correctly, the Lempor work was one part of on-going research to improve steam locomotive efficiency and reduce emissions at the Cog. However, the owners decided to end that work and instead focus on "modernizing" with those D-thingies.
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I think you're right Wayne, I believe it was the conversion to oil-firing on one of the steamers that was purported to be unsuccessful by the Cog folks. For all we know it was successful, and their minds had already been made up to make the switch to diesel power.
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Stephen, the taper in the stack is essential to the Lempor exhaust. Again...you need to remember that we are a museum with the mission of historical accuracy and the Lempor exhaust would not only not be correct....but would ruin the sound of the locomotive. Lempor exhausts are almost silent and you would not have the spine chilling exhaust note as the train climbed the grade headed to Alna Center.
L.D. Porta's "Lempor" exhaust was experimentally fitted to a South African steam locomotive by David Wardale. It was technically a success, but the South African Railways never applied this exhaust to any other locomotives. Apparently the savings did not offset the expense of the conversion.
Keith
P.S. Do a search on "David Wardale" and also on his "Red Devil." Every interesting reading.
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Stephen, the taper in the stack is essential to the Lempor exhaust. Again...you need to remember that we are a museum with the mission of historical accuracy and the Lempor exhaust would not only not be correct....but would ruin the sound of the locomotive. Lempor exhausts are almost silent and you would not have the spine chilling exhaust note as the train climbed the grade headed to Alna Center...........
Actually, Lempor exhausts are quite noisy, depending on the amount of work the loco is doing. The exhaust has a different sound - generally a crisp, higher pitched, rasping note. When Boston Lodge rebuilt Garratt No. 87 a Lempor was fitted and if you watch - and listen to- several YouTube videos you'll get the idea! The other Garratts have a deeper, more muffled exhaust.
Several of the UK heritage railways have locos fitted with Lempor (and similar) exhaust systems - lots of info here (http://www.martynbane.co.uk/) for anyone interested. The Mount Washington Cog work was carried out by an Englishman, Nigel Day.
The Festiniog's "Linda" and "Blanche" have had Lempor and Kylchap exhausts respectively, but both have now been removed and a plain blastpipe with petticoat refitted. The nozzles are prone to carbonisation - when cleaned out the loco would go like h*ll but not steam, when a bit bunged up they'd steam like a witch but be very slow to accelerate. I think the main reason for reversion to the simpler, original arrangement was down to the fabricated nozzles and diffusers being life expired. For all you fans of little engines working hard watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Acsz688-ohw
HTH,
Nick
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Actually, Lempor exhausts are quite noisy, depending on the amount of work the loco is doing. The exhaust has a different sound - generally a crisp, higher pitched, rasping note. Nick
Hi Nick,
Yes....but they do sound very different and do not have the loud "crack" that locomotives with original front ends have. I doubt the fans in the U.K. would think highly of a Great Western King class with a Lempor exhaust! Here is a link to a Lempor fitted Garrett ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfyLBmA-NHY
Keith
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And check out the open-air seating for the driver of No. 141!!
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Lempor/nozzle photos sent to us by Nigel Day, thank you Nigel!!
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/Lempor1copyrightNigelDay.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/Nozzles2copyrightNigelDay.jpg)
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a few more photos from Nigel... perhaps Lempor for No 11?
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/copyrightNigelDay90sm.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/Picture045copyrightNigelDaysm.jpg)
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/Picture046copyrightNigelDaysm.jpg)
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Grand Canyon
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/HPIM0464copyrightNigelDaysm.jpg)
Welshpool
(http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/342468/WelshpoolcopyrightNigelDaysm.jpg)
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I believe I remember reading that the narrow gage South African locomotive put out 4,300 HP after the Lempor exhaust and other modernizations were installed. Can you imagine 9 dragging a GP 38?
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I believe I remember reading that the narrow gage South African locomotive put out 4,300 HP after the Lempor exhaust and other modernizations were installed. Can you imagine 9 dragging a GP 38?
The South African "Red Devil" may have produced in excess of 4,000 hp....but it was incredibly slippery. High horsepower doesn't do much good if you can't get it to the rails. The Red Devil also had a boiler pressure of 250 psi....a tad more than used on the WW&F!
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What red blooded American boy wouldn't want 4,300 HP? In my 150 HP Porsche 944 I recently dragged a 427 side oiler 1961 Ford. He was only marginally faster than I was because the Ford wouldn't put down the power. I doubt that anything other than Porta's new designs would actually work with more power than what the old engines had. And even then, everything would depend on the sanders to keep the wheels from slipping.
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Here's an interesting paper sent to me by Nigel, titled: The Importance of Lempors for Oil Firing
http://restorationstories.com/oilfiringpage.html