W.W.&F. Discussion Forum
WW&F Railway Museum Discussion => Work and Events => Topic started by: Brendan Barry on October 29, 2020, 01:11:56 PM
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Progress on electric building.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2514.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/7813085c-3e7d-4074-ba88-f3d204760d7d)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2517.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/ff2fe5b7-56ee-4386-a41b-5e8579b25115)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2518.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/9ea516f1-6be0-4b73-9cb0-166ae954e037)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2676.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/d05b0a7c-02fd-4d8b-9835-e09e0a4aa517)
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Thanks for the photos.
I can't resist asking: ;D "Why does an electric service building have a window?" ???
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Thanks for the photos.
I can't resist asking: ;D "Why does an electric service building have a window?" ???
So you can see when the lights go out? :)
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This is great. Can't wait to see the shingling and the roof....
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[Moderator's Note]
After three pages, Ed finally pulled the plug on a series of electrical puns, which have been routed to "Whimsical, Weirdness, and Foolery (http://forum.wwfry.org/index.php/topic,3843.0.html)".
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Here's a reverse angle of the building I took October 24th, before Brendan installed the rest of the wall plywood:
(https://i.imgur.com/YkbOzwQ.jpg)
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Thank you Ed! This project is too important to be reduced to mockery (albeit unintended)...
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Progress as of 11/4
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2686.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/87d98f28-0d86-400f-bff7-5711129e4ee2)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2694.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/ee969ee7-0403-4c24-96ef-86d470d96c37)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2698.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/9efc4f88-53bd-495f-9215-9c6a00046f10)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2700.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/816ce37e-4a7d-41d5-af4e-94d35091947d)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2702.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/e58579db-238e-4813-9a01-959efd2ba408)
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Nice progress, Brendan.
Jeff S.
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As usual, the photos are already out dated. Today (11/5) the roof framing, rake boards and shadow boards were installed. The shed is now ready for the metal roof to be installed this weekend. Photos of the power house from this afternoon are posted on FB.
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Will that occur this weekend?
Jeff S.
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Weren't we discussing the use of the electric bldg. as a ticket office also ?? I seem to recall a thread on this.
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John is probably referring to this thread:
http://forum.wwfry.org/index.php?topic=3083.45
Lots of different options presented there. But the electrical building would need to have a 'secure' area for the breakers etc, and clearly the structure that is getting constructed is not large enough for that along with selling tickets.
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The "power house" is only for the electrical distribution equipment and Brendan plans to install the roof this weekend.
BTW - The rake and shadow boards were prime painted today, the paint set up quickly in the sunny 64 degree weather.
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Progress as of 11/8. The door was saved by Stewart from a local house undergoing renovation and has been stored in the basement of the Percival house waiting for a use. We had to shorten the door by an inch and make a threshold. The roof is new old stock corrugated aluminum that we found in the old shingle mill building we cleaned out a few years ago.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2711.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/c4cc40fb-47f5-4012-b3cb-aec5c38106c5)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2725.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/2f01f1d0-e678-41dd-89f5-c4fe413d95da)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2727.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/723dbea3-bbe4-4786-bacd-260eb402caa8)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2729.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/6cd4b503-b1b1-43df-acc9-1c4e6d16b0cf)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2732.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/107769e7-c15a-4bbd-97ff-f3f70af9fa17)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2734.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/8a03a096-e151-4de1-a2fc-b4cdd1fe81bb)
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That "aged" roofing from the Shingle Mill acquisition looks good on the building. Glad to see it used.
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Even better that its used up and storage space is opened up for something that really needs it. :)
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All I can say is WOW! This building is poised to become a key infrastructure factor in the future operations and management of the WW&F Railway Museum. That is why I and some others have made dedicated contributions to make this happen as soon as possible.
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Which color scheme will be used?
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It's coming along nicely, Brendan.
Jeff S.
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Cedar shakes, probably no color...
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Stewart started shingling yesterday.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2779.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/0138d759-efc9-4367-af4f-6dd11270a295)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2778.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/dde91539-883b-4527-a649-0f70d1c27a4f)
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Great work, Start!
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It will match all our other buildings in no time.
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Sizewise, how does it compare to Sheepscot station?
Jeff S.
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Size wise, how does it compare to Sheepscot station?
Jeff S.
It's smaller than the depot.
Today - Friday, 11/13:
* The door was installed.
* More tar paper and shingles were put on the east end before rain stopped work.
There are a couple of pics on FB.
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Can you all start telling us about what is going to happen to the interior of the building to make it functional. I assume there will be some sort of major electrical input from the street, and all sorts of panels, switches, meters, and breakers, etc., etc., as well as plans to move electrical distribution to the campus from here.
Fascinating project!!
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The image below is an extreme enlargement of a portion of one of Mike's photos posted here (http://forum.wwfry.org/index.php?action=profile;u=11;area=showposts;start=105).
(https://i.postimg.cc/pLHt8n6L/Conduit.png)
While the enlargement has produced significant graininess, under the chute at the back of the concrete truck you can see [sticking out of the ground] various vertical PVC conduits that were buried before the concrete was poured. Those PVC conduits are now inside the building, but close to the wall so that they can connect to electrical equipment cabinets that will be mounted on the wall. I recall seeing conduits there during FWW 2019, so at least some of them had been in place for quite some time. I don't know exactly where the other end of each conduit is, but presumably there is at least one conduit going to each of the major buildings at Sheepscot scheduled to have electric service. I think the pole that is behind the concrete chute (but still close to the PVC conduits) is where the Power Company transformer serving the Electric building will be located.
At this point the conduits are empty, but as progress continues, cables will be pulled thru each conduit and hooked up to breaker panels in the new Electric building.
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Since I buried them, maybe I can shed some light on the conduit and Bobs question.
The large conduit, left side of the cement truck shot, goes down and turns a little and stops under where Stewart has been shingling. A drop from the pole goes to the meter that will go on that end, then into the conduit and into the building for distribution.
Each of the other conduits goes someplace. One goes to the shop, one to the house, and one each headed toward the roundhouse, car barn and bathroom (I think). I had posted some pictures of us burying these during a fall work weekend. I'll see if I can find a photo or a link.
There will be breakers (bog switchgear) in the building.
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Fall work weekend 2018
Some of the pipes are for communication..
(http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m573/miketrainnut/1006181402_zps7cj4nthu.jpg)
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Stewart's picture from today.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2784.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/712c8997-e915-4163-90fa-94122f3a9dc7)
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That is looking very sweet !!!
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Some of the pipes are for communication..
i.e. telephone and alarm
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The painted door and trim look terrific!
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Most impressive.
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Mike, do we have a map of where the buried PVC lines actually went to during FWW 2018?
My concern is whether they went as far as the carbarn, or if that's a trenching job that still needs to be done.
Obviously (to me at least), we can't have museum display area without electricity, and if we are displaying important equipment such as Rangely in the barn area, there should be good lighting.
Bob
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They do not go past the turntable. We had set a marker, which was a pressure treated 2x4, marking the ends, but I am not even sure that is still there. We did not go further because there was no need to at the time.
I can find the end of the pipe easily, but at this point we should wait and trench to the car barn and roundhouse at the same time, which was part of Josh's original plan.
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I know time is in short supply - but please map exactly where the conduit is located.
I know from experience both tile lines and electrical do not always go where you might think.
A map will help 20, 30 or more years down the line.
And Locaters can be off 5 feet and more which creates real headaches.
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The east end and south side have been shingled, the west wall was started this afternoon.
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Wow, glad I didn't mention that the snow braces were installed this week.
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Wow, glad I didn't mention that the snow braces were installed this week.
Between this and posting a pic of "6" in the snow last winter, you're just pushing for there to be a freak snowstorm Friday night.
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(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2805.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/93a05575-cf10-43ae-9f7b-50059785aab9)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2814.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/575b21fc-b4ec-4a12-bbe6-437387b9707a)
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Since this post, the west side has been completed.
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Since this post, the west side has been completed.
Congrats, Stewart. Does anything else need to be done to the exterior of the building?
Jeff S.
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Congrats, Stewart. Does anything else need to be done to the exterior of the building?
Jeff S.
[/quote]
The front / turntable side has to be shingled. This will be done after the window is installed.
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I just noticed the extension cord through the window opening. Is it delivering electricity from the building or to the building? :o
Jeff S.
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(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2817.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/71f1e1a1-67b8-428b-86a4-8824d337933c)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2829.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/ef4ad7f4-b221-4fed-a4ce-9bad441885f8)
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[Moderator's Note]
ANOTHER two pages of puns and other nonsense (squirrel-powered generators, really??) have been split off from this topic and placed into the Whimsical Weirdness and Foolery section.
Honestly, I am quite surprised (shocked, even) at how nice the building looks at that location. It really fits into the Sheepscot campus area nicely in style, form, and function. Good job to Brendan, Stewart, Josh, and the rest of the crew!
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The size made all the difference. Brendan was able to make it look like a Railroad related structure easily because of that. And the cedar shakes, antique door and window really make the building complete.
This building is over 2 years in the making.. We buried the first pipes in 2018, and dug out to put a load of gravel in shortly after. We wanted it to settle over the winter. Well, it settled over 2 winters..
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Honestly, I am quite surprised (shocked, even) at how nice the building looks at that location. It really fits into the Sheepscot campus area nicely in style, form, and function. Good job to Brendan, Stewart, Josh, and the rest of the crew!
I agree. I was concerned about the building's location and it's potential visual impact around the turntable, though I understood why it had to be sited where it is. I'm very pleasantly surprised how nice the building looks. Great job by all involved.
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OK, now that this handsome building is nearly complete, can we begin to turn our attention to what it's going to take to make it operational? That will be at least as fascinating as the construction of the building itself.
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That is all on our electrician and to be completed under his guidance only.
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But can he explain it to us as he plans and executes? We will all learn a lot from that.
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This is one wall inside one of our electrical containers. Based on my conversations with Josh, this is about what he will be installing. Each building will have a breaker in this building, and there will also be a Main breaker that kills everything..
(https://i.postimg.cc/sgyy1XXb/1125200613.jpg)
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This is one wall inside one of our electrical containers.
I'm guessing that by "our" you are referring to "your" employer - do I have that correct?
Noting the "480 volts" label on one of the breaker boxes, suggests that box is 3 phase. Is there any plan for 3 phase in the shop facility at Sheepscot? (Regardless of whether the WW&F would 'like' to use 3-phase for certain equipment, if that capability is not on the power poles on Cross Road, then 3 phase is not likely an affordable option.)
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The presence of a fan or AC in the upper left corner of the photo brings up the question of ventilation. What are the thoughts on this?
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A phase converter could provide 3 phase to the shop.
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Don't forget warning signs.
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CMP has a neat online map (through ARCGIS) that shows the location of their 3-phase circuits.
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/Styler/index.html?appid=efb79ff9e99c448fb6683ad192324375
The nearest 3-phase to the museum is shown as downtown Wiscasset, on Hooper Street, which serves the elementary school. Extending it up to Sheepscot isn't likely to be economically feasible.
Phase converters or VFD's are possible solutions for equipment that warrants it.
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Or, there is always the three phase generator that I think is still outside the shop. At least I think it is a three phase generator. I know it was used to run some of the equipment that had power requirements that were not available from the commercial lines.
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The nearest 3-phase to the museum is shown as downtown Wiscasset, on Hooper Street, which serves the elementary school.
While I am not disputing that comment, if you zoom in on the map in the area of the intersection of Cross Rd and Alna Rd, there is a curious ;D 3-phase red line segment shown about 1000 feet from the WW&F, just north of Sheepscot Rd intersecting Alna Rd. Here is a screen capture:
(https://i.postimg.cc/W3vMLcyG/CM-3phase.png)
And if one looks at that location on Google Maps, guess what is there ... a substation! :)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Wbhqy43R/CMP-substation.png)
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While I am not disputing that comment, if you zoom in on the map in the area of the intersection of Cross Rd and Alna Rd, there is a curious ;D 3-phase red line segment shown about 1000 feet from the WW&F, just north of Sheepscot Rd intersecting Alna Rd.
And if one looks at that location on Google Maps, guess what is there ... a substation! :)
Wow, good eye! I did not see that! At least 2 of those 3 phases are already strung up to the museum for the existing service, so it would be just the 3rd wire run and a transformer replacement.
Of course this only helps if what comes from the pole can be used directly. The museum would probably want 120/208, not 277/480, to avoid a massive reconfiguration of existing on-campus electrical infrastructure. Hopefully that's what the machines want as well. Otherwise you need another transformer. Existing 240v machines might have something to say about the 208 as well. Or it could be set up as a separately-metered system, although CMP might not go for two meters for such low usage.
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Note,
The enthusiasm about getting 3-phase to the shop is appreciated. However, please understand that this topic has been discussed at length by us stakeholders in the shop, and Josh Recave (our electrician).
That said, here is where the 3-phase situation stands, and where it is going:
We currently have three major machine tools which run on three-phase power- our horizontal mill, the large vertical mill, and the large lathe. Power to these machines is supplied by a diesel 3-phase 480V generator. We have a transformer to step it down to a lower voltage for the one machine that requires 220/208. While the generator has served us well for many years, it is very noisy, and it's capacity is already taxed when by our large mill.
In January, we will be taking delivery of a new "wheel" lathe to replace the New Haven. This new machine will be underserved by the existing generator. In addition to a new largest load, I have three other machines which I need to add to the 3-phase circuit: a new small lathe, a pedestal grinder that we've had kicking around, and the radial arm drill. The increased machine count and growing activity around #11 on the horizon, there is a much higher likelyhood of multiple simultaneous users, further taxing the capacity of the existing generator. Long story short, we need more 3-phase power, and we'd like it to be quieter.
That leaves two reasonable options- having CMP run 3-phase from their substation to the shop, or getting a shop sized phase converter. Before my time, CMP quoted a 3-phase supply, and due to poles needing to be changed and upgraded to hold the necessary hardware, it was a 5 figure quote. I don't know the exact number, as that discussion predates my involvement with the museum. As Bob put it, it wasn't affordable then, and isn't the cheapest option now. Individual phase converters for each machine might be cheaper to roll out over time, but the cumulative floor space losses, and number of machines which already need 3-phase make this a really unprofessional solution, and steer us towards a single phase converter large enough to meet the needs of the entire shop. A large phase converter is a reasonable and readily available option. Depending on the capacity and where it is placed (heated or unheated space), the cost will be up to $5K if new, less if used. We can get by with the generator we have for the time being, but hope to make a switch within a year. Josh is an active member of our planning for this upgrade, as he has the experience and credentials to tell us what we can/can't do, and where we can/can't put it. The machine tool voltage requirements and our existing transformer mean that very little will need to be done to switch over to a 220/240V supply. I stress that we are working very closely with a licensed electrician for both planning and execution, and his experience has been a tremendous asset to the museum over many years.
Hope this clarifies things.
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This is one wall inside one of our electrical containers.
I'm guessing that by "our" you are referring to "your" employer - do I have that correct?
Noting the "480 volts" label on one of the breaker boxes, suggests that box is 3 phase. Is there any plan for 3 phase in the shop facility at Sheepscot? (Regardless of whether the WW&F would 'like' to use 3-phase for certain equipment, if that capability is not on the power poles on Cross Road, then 3 phase is not likely an affordable option.)
Sorry, yes. This is at my work. It is 3 phase, 480 volt with a transformer right next to the building stepping down the CMP supplied electric.
We are not talking supplied 3 phase at the museum, I was just posting the picture for reference.
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I have a vague recollection that our interest in 3-phase began about twenty years ago when we obtained some machines from a company down in Massachusetts. At least one of them, and perhaps more, used 3-phase at 525 volts. After much discussion of phase converters, the problem was solved on an interim basis by obtaining a used generator to produce 480 3-phase and converting that to 525 by connecting a 480-to-525 transformer backwards. (BTW, using transformers "backwards" is why one must have a disconnect on home generators to prevent back-feeding one's home electrical feed lest the transformer on your local pole convert your generator's output to multiple thousands of volts.) I think it was Josh who found the nifty transformer. Thanks, Josh! I don't know if we are still using the 525 machine, but I know that we did re-motor some of the other machines.
At the time we had the discussion about phase converters, there was some discussion about their effects on the commercial power feeds, but I don't know if anything came of that concern. Interest in phase converters flagged after the local generator and magic transform system was implemented.
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Alan's recollection is right. I used to commute to work with a guy who worked for CMP. I had him ask someone in his office what the cost would be run 3 phase from the corner of Cross and 218 down to our transformer (wrongly believing that 3-phase was already at the corner). The answer was in the neighborhood of $50,000, and this was probably 8 or so years ago now. You'd need to at least double that figure (maybe triple) because of the distance from the substation to the corner of Cross and 218.
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Window ready to go in.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2841.JPG) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/591e532e-36d0-4f50-b937-f71cc4a0eed6)
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I can CLEARLY SEE the value of refurbishing an old window. It will enhance the LOOK of our electric building.
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Bill,
It PANES me to hear you say that. :o
Jeff S.
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Progress today..
(https://i.postimg.cc/tCsg9WW4/1127201532a-HDR.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/CL9x55sH/1127201533-HDR.jpg)
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Not much more shingling to do, it appears.
Jeff S.
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With the window casing and trim installed, the shingles on the north / turntable side were finished today. The next step will be to prime and finish paint the window sashes which will happen in a couple of days after the glazing sets up. The sashes should be in place and the hardware installed by mid-week.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/nhJXNVT0/1128201604-HDR.jpg)
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Dad Burn, that electric building looks really good now. Another job well done by our volunteers.
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It's been a long time since I've heard the term "Dad Burn" used. ???
Jeff S.
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I grew up in the mountains of North Carolina and seem to have acquired a lot of old slang, either from my rural Virginia parents or my friends with whom I grew up. Well, time for me to skedaddle.
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Building is done.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2861.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/1adb2e4a-42ed-455e-917a-e8fd62d72b5f)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/s5/bbarry74/IMG_2862.JPG?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/bbarry74/a/5eea03cf-9481-491b-9315-6b0eef26b083/p/cc4d28db-d9db-44a1-bd98-04fd062a188f)
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Perfect!
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Really nicely done!
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It's really a beautiful well-proportioned small building that will look fine in my backyard.
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Alain,
Shipping costs could be expensive. Check with WW&F Logistics for a quote😉
Dave
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Alain,
Shipping costs could be expensive. Check with WW&F Logistics for a quote😉
Dave
Yes, but thanks to Wayne we have become expert in shipping via container ship.
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You're right Dave, while WW&F has become expert at shipping oversea, all things considered I think this cute building will match more Sheepscot yard than my backyard.
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This thread had comments on three-phase power a while back. I have attached a screenshot from a local Facebook page here in West Virginia. I don't know if you would have any use or need for a 10hp three-phase motor. I also don't know if that is a reasonable price either. If there is interest, you could always make an offer. I can't believe they're going to get a lot of interest in their motor down here in rural West Virginia.
https://www.facebook.com/albrightfirehall
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Roger has an idea that with some modification perhaps could solve the problem. How about a single phase 240 volt motor driving a 3 phase generator. We would loose some efficiency but I suspect maintaining an electric motor generator combination would be a lot easier than maintaining our diesel generator set. Of course, the diesel generator already has a 3 phase generator which could be connected to a single phase motor. It probably has more resale value as a set. I would think any combination of these solutions would be a lot cheaper than trying to get 3 phase power to us on Cross Road.
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How about a single phase 240 volt motor driving a 3 phase generator. We would loose some efficiency but I suspect maintaining an electric motor generator combination would be a lot easier than maintaining our diesel generator set. Of course, the diesel generator already has a 3 phase generator which could be connected to a single phase motor.
Agree. An IC engine, especially one used infrequently, is nothing but a money pit and a maintenance time-sink.
One should be mindful that the IC engine is governed to maintain constant speed under load. An electric motor would need some kind of closed-loop control to mimic this behavior, if the downstream equipment is sensitive to frequency fluctuations.
Alternatively, for the price of a decent single-phase motor, you could just as easily get a dedicated rotary- or digital-phase converter and be done with it.
It probably has more resale value as a set.
True, but if you have to separate the two, it would be easier to re-sell the diesel alone than the genny head alone.
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As previously discussed, we’ve already booked this choice down to a commercially available converter. The electric service required for a home brew or a commercial unit is the same; we opt for the one which is fully engineered, rated for our service and rated for cold storage. The price range for these units is well within the scope of the no 11 project- put another way- we want to keep our efforts focused on the main task at hand.
Honestly by the time you source the 50hp motor and generator, motor controllers, overload protectors for both sides, come up with a frame and or enclosure, and other ancillary concerns, the cost would likely approach that of the equivalent commercial units we’ve found, which are in the low thousands. Some used units under $1000.
Thanks,
Jaosn
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I think the museum is on the right track buying a phase converter, they are not that expensive and a good one will last for years. Check out American Rotary's website if any of you are wondering about them. They are not the only game in town but they show what the current equipment is like and they show their prices.
M. Nix
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Have Alan Downey and Josh Recave solved the 3-phase power requirement in the shop? Have they acquired the phase converter?
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Josh has been spending a little time getting things ready.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1tsXs9ht/0724210735.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bJgJvKpR/0724210735a.jpg)
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What's the plan for the cable pull box in front of the electrical building? That's where the two Ethernet cables go between our incoming feed and the office. Last I saw it was just a few 2X boards making a box. Ought to be something sturdier than that.
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Josh has purchased the fiberglass boxes and the will be installed Fall Work Weekend, as well as burying the conduit from where we left off near the temporary box to the Enginehouse and Car Barn.
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Getting conduit to Engine House and Carbarn will be HUGE!
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Getting conduit to Engine House and Carbarn will be HUGE!
It's just a little digging for Mike or Brendan. They both just love to tear up the ground... And they are so good at it!
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I realize I may be "spilling the beans," but rumor has it that Jason has designed a two-foot gauge TBM (Tunnel Boring Machine).
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I realize I may be "spilling the beans," but rumor has it that Jason has designed a two-foot gauge TBM (Tunnel Boring Machine).
Does that mean we can go under Route 218, rather than across it? :o
Jeff S.
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Hopefully Jason's TBM has that all important WPCLI* option included! ;D
*WaterProof Concrete Liner Installer
Seems like the water table might not be too far down in the vicinity of Route 218.
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Josh has purchased the fiberglass boxes and the will be installed Fall Work Weekend,
Fall Work Weekend! Yay!
as well as burying the conduit from where we left off near the temporary box to the Enginehouse and Car Barn.
Will we be wanting wired network connectivity to the Enginehouse and Car Barn? Ewa and I could run the wires during FWW.
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We're sort of making fun of all this, but my annual contributions will continue to be dedicated to this very serious infrastructure project until 1) the electrical house is fully functional in distributing power to the entire campus, 2) the carbarn has full connectivity and is adequately lighted as a museum and car display space, and 3) the engine house if fully functionally electrically.
I hope others agree with me and will also dedicate funding resources to making this happen.
Bob
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This project has quietly been progressing since the last update in this thread 22 months, occasionally discussed in the monthly work reports. Here's a photo early this morning (June 17th) of Zack Wyllie, Josh Recave and his dad Gary Recave inside the electric building, showing a small portion of the work done so far.
(https://i.imgur.com/YUOLPZQ.jpg)