Author Topic: Top Of The Mountain Siding - Official Work Thread  (Read 210595 times)

Ira Schreiber

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Re: Top Of The Mountain Siding - Official Work Thread
« Reply #195 on: September 15, 2014, 09:35:39 PM »
Here is "some interest". Go for it.

Mike Fox

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Re: Top Of The Mountain Siding - Official Work Thread
« Reply #196 on: September 16, 2014, 07:09:11 AM »
I'll do it up tonight.
Mike
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Glenn Christensen

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Re: Top Of The Mountain Siding - Official Work Thread
« Reply #197 on: September 16, 2014, 06:21:49 PM »
:) Smart way to do it.  Throw in a simple shelter and we'll have our Northern terminus for a few years.



What about using Prebles for the shelter?


Best Regards,
Glenn

James Patten

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Re: Top Of The Mountain Siding - Official Work Thread
« Reply #198 on: September 16, 2014, 06:40:04 PM »
Currently we plan to use Prebles as a drop point for utilities, when we get ready to bring everything in to one location and bury utilities between buildings on campus.

Jason M Lamontagne

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Re: Top Of The Mountain Siding - Official Work Thread
« Reply #199 on: September 16, 2014, 06:54:22 PM »
So... We're not ruling out mike's x-over plan yet--- we're looking at the feasibility of building 3 switches...

See ya
Jason

Ken Fleming

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Re: Top Of The Mountain Siding - Official Work Thread
« Reply #200 on: September 16, 2014, 07:55:26 PM »
K.I.S.S.
It's a principle that works.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 07:57:58 PM by Ken Fleming »

Ira Schreiber

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Re: Top Of The Mountain Siding - Official Work Thread
« Reply #201 on: September 16, 2014, 08:04:39 PM »
Build the switch at the shop. Load on a flat car with the excess overhanging the other flat car. Check the side clearances and move it north.

Repeat two more times.
You can leave off the through rails and that would leave points, frog and guard rails. It will work.

Mike Fox

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Re: Top Of The Mountain Siding - Official Work Thread
« Reply #202 on: September 16, 2014, 08:09:30 PM »
Here is my interpretation of Jason's suggestion to me. Hope it makes sense. And he is currently thinking about the crossover idea. Time will tell.

Mike
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Jon Chase

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Re: Top Of The Mountain Siding - Official Work Thread
« Reply #203 on: September 17, 2014, 03:12:21 AM »
For sake of further discussion, is there really any need for a runaround at TOM, temporary or otherwise?  Reference has been made to operational safety.  I'm not involved in WW&F operations, but based on my experience on other railroads I do wonder what would actually be gained by running around cars at TOM and then pulling them up The Ladder with the locomotive at the south end, in the current absence of automatic train brakes. Logically, the practice of pushing cars south from EOT, which has been done successfully for some years now, seems "safer" in the event of a coupler and safety chain failure (however unlikely we hope that is). The present mode of operation north of Alna Center completely avoids this risk.    

On the other hand, avoiding a potentially dangerous stop on a steep grade at a new EOT partway down The Mountain is also entirely logical, particularly with a major washout or landslip just beyond.  Utilizing TOM siding, in its original stub-ended format, as the temporary "main" line would also accomplish this.  The switch itself could normally be clamped in the thrown position, with a procedure for authorizing removal of the clamp established in the operating rules so as to allow access down the grade for work trains or other special operations.    

By way of reference to Ken Flemming's "keep it simple" comment, this would eliminate paying for, building, and ultimately removing one or two superfluous switches, would allow accurate restoration of TOM siding including keeping the mainline switch at its original location, and would satisfy both of the critical safety functions mentioned above - which I believe are the essential ones identified in every discussion of this issue.  

-Jon Chase (looking forward to seeing other work weekend regulars in a few weeks)
    
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 03:15:35 AM by Jon Chase »

Mike Fox

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Re: Top Of The Mountain Siding - Official Work Thread
« Reply #204 on: September 17, 2014, 06:00:09 AM »
Actually, we have been shoving cars North the mile from Alna Center for the last few years. The reason to have a run around would be to have the locomotive on the head end in both directions. This is the best position for the locomotive operationally.
Mike
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James Patten

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Re: Top Of The Mountain Siding - Official Work Thread
« Reply #205 on: September 17, 2014, 06:05:47 AM »
Mike posted as I was writing this, but I'll post it anyway.

Jon, our operating procedure for several years now is to stop at Alna Center northbound, run the locomotive around, and push to the end.  So we are pulling the cars upgrade at the Ladder on our way south.

Before we acquired this property, there had been discussion about putting a runaround somewhere north of Alna Center.  If we had been unable to get the property, thus making further expansion northward impossible for the time being, then we would have done this.  The best candidate spacewise would have been at Rosewood Crossing.  While we have successfully pushed cars for years, pulling cars is much safter than pushing.  This runaround is on level ground, making chances of a runaway less likely than at Alna Center.  It will enable our second sections to meet us at end of track and return much sooner than they currently do.  Operationaly the runaround is a major win for us, however temporary it is.

Jason M Lamontagne

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Re: Top Of The Mountain Siding - Official Work Thread
« Reply #206 on: September 17, 2014, 06:31:43 AM »
Qualifying the "pushing cars is much safer" comment.  In the event of a derailment of a lead wheelset due to a track issue or grade crossing "issue", having the mass up front has clear advantages over having it out back continuing to shove. 

I understand Amtrak and many commuter agencies shove all the time- but at least in the case of the Downeaster, Amtrak is required to have a dummy locomotive on he dead end not only for cab controls but for leading mass as well.  At least I heard that somewhere- but I'll back down on that claim quickly if debunked.

Plainly we're not counting on a derailment of any sort.

Annoyance level concerns with shoving include the fireman needing to watch for signals on right hand curves (when shoving), and train slack management when using train brakes.

We could build a stub siding and station a locomotive, and volunteer to live up there, to help with runarounds.  There's already a cabin up there for the volunteer to stay in.  I hear the fishing ain't bad (or good), and te scenery's decent.  Any takers?

See ya
Jason

Jon Chase

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Re: Top Of The Mountain Siding - Official Work Thread
« Reply #207 on: September 17, 2014, 08:44:03 AM »
Jason and James, thanks for explaining the reasoning.  As I said, my comment was was offered for the sake of discussion, so I guess it worked ... in any event, one thing which occasional participants like myself can always be assured of is that whatever the given project may be, the background thought and planning has been extensive and well-considered.       

Regarding my evident unfamiliarity with the actual current method of regular operation north of Alna Center, I guess I need to ride the train more often! 

Thanks again, and see you in a few weeks.

John McNamara

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Re: Top Of The Mountain Siding - Official Work Thread
« Reply #208 on: September 17, 2014, 08:50:13 AM »
I happened to accidentally select the earliest posts (2009!) in this thread rather than the most recent ones. There are posts there suggesting that fire safety would be greatly enhanced if the Bridgton tank car were posted on the siding. That idea suggests retention of the spur shown in Mike's diagrams.

-John

Glenn Christensen

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Re: Top Of The Mountain Siding - Official Work Thread
« Reply #209 on: September 17, 2014, 02:04:07 PM »
Currently we plan to use Prebles as a drop point for utilities, when we get ready to bring everything in to one location and bury utilities between buildings on campus.

Thanks for the info James!


Best Regards,
Glenn