Author Topic: New Locomotives  (Read 4556 times)

Ed Lecuyer

  • Administrator
  • Supervisor
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,863
    • View Profile
    • wwfry.org
New Locomotives
« on: December 19, 2008, 04:05:07 AM »
MODERATORS NOTE:
New Locomotives has been converted from the pre-July 2008 WW&F Discussion Forum.
Some formatting may have been removed or modified from the original postings that appear quoted in this topic.
Information contained within this post may be superseded by more recent postings and conversations.

James Patten wrote:
Quote
Since it's no secret (sort of in the Long Range Plan) I'll tell you what Eric is working on.

He's doing drawings for WW&F #11, which will be a new locomotive that we will build, starting in 10 or so years from now.

Joe Fox replied:
Quote
Oh, that would be cool. Is it going to be a 2-6-0 like number 6 was?

ETSRRCo replied:
Quote
No its going to be the #7 just with an 11 on her side. I am doing much of the final drafting of the parts for Jason. I didnt want to say anything because I wasn't sure who was supposed to know. O and the 6 was a

2-6-2.

-Eric

Stephen Hussar replied:
Quote
er...kind of like this


ETSRRCo replied:
Quote
Yes but in its later years appearance with the open cab, electric headlight and generator. That is my favorite picture of the #7.

gordon cook replied:
Quote
Thought I'd share the fine handiwork of Mr. Bernie Perch, who made the pattern, got it cast, and delivered this and a replica builder's plate over the work weekend. He and Wayne Laepple collaborated on this lovely sculpture in  bronze.

My task is to polish it up and paint the background. Bernie is also responsible for the #10's number plate.

Gotta start somewhere, and this is an excellent start!


Also, we may actually see a #11 a little sooner than you might think, course it will be a little smaller and a slightly different prototype...


Gordon

Wayne Laepple replied:
Quote
Just to set the record totally straight, I had no part in the manufacture of the number plate for no. 11. I provided the transportation to get it from Pennsylvania to Maine, nothing more. Bernie is the craftsman who made the  patterns and supervised the pouring of the brass. I was unaware of the project until only a week or so before we headed to Maine.

ETSRRCo replied:
Quote
Wow that number plate looks great. It will look even better when its on the front of a locomotive. Ok well to give you an idea of where we are at. Baldwin basically from what we can tell destroyed most of the 7's drawings. These means that we are basically reengineering the locomotive. We are taking every step possible to make sure it is as accurate to the original #7 as we can get it. At this point we have the front truck drawings done. I, at the moment, have the pony wheels, journal boxes, and axle. I think that Jason has most of the rear truck done. Next we are moving on to the frame and drivers. We are having a problem figuring out the counterweights at the moment. Again this is not happening anytime soon as James said. Its a good 10 years away. We are just getting as much of the engineering aspect out of the was as possible.

-Eric

James Patten replied:
Quote
Nice number plate.  I didn't realize Bernie was the one who did #10's number plate.

gordon cook replied:
Quote
My apologies Wayne. I misunderstood your role in the the enterprise.

But transportation is important! You also provided an opportunity for many of us to meet and appreciate Bernie.

Gordon

James Patten replied:
Quote
I have separated the talk of #11 into it's own topic.

petecosmob replied:
Quote
THAT'S RIGHT! No. 6 WAS a 2-6-2, wasn't it?!!?!
For some reason, (I assume  the same reason as anyone else) I got to thinking she was 2-6-0.

Anyway, someone else mentioned on another thread in this forum the idea of making the next engine a 2-6-2, and maybe #12 a replica of #7.

I, myself would be in favor of such a thing, because, as mentioned, there are no ME2' 2-6-2's (OR 2-6-0's) left anymore, and I for one would sure like to see one running someeday!
But then I realize also that I'm not the one who'd have to build thee dah'n thing, or have to face the bulk of the fundraising efforts to make it happen. 
I give my $30.00 a year, cast my vote, and leave the final decision up to those more experienced and skilled, and closer to the action.

But I do thank James for starting this thread. I do think it's a topic worthy of discussion, and I'm happy for a spot to voice my $0.02 worth.

Cosmo

Dana Deering replied:
Quote
There are a couple of 23 1/2 inch gauge locomotives stored down in Brazil that could be easily made to look very much like #6.  They are 2-6-2s with tenders and saddle tanks (we can remove those).  Best of all they have cap stacks, twin sand domes, and are Baldwins!  If I can figure out how to post an image I'll put one up here if anyone is interested.

Dana

pockets replied:
Quote
First a question and then a couple of thoughts.

Is the WW&F a 501-3-C? If so, the cost of the engine could, possibly, be brought way down.

I'm not saying that this will work, but it's an avenue to look at. I'll call it the "Gratis Subcontractor Approach". Talk to the manufacturers in the Live Steam hobby. I'm willing to bet that many of them would be willing, in exchange for their name on a placard and advertising rights, to contribute a piece, part or casting to the project. This is the same approach that Timken Bearing used on the 1111 (Four Aces). What company, in the Railroad Hobby wouldn't kill to be associated with a brand new, full size locomotive? There are companies providing items for models from 1/4" scale up through 1-1/2" and 3-3/4", all the way to 5"scale and larger.

It's the nickle and dime stuff that beats you up, on a project like this. Talk to people like Roll Models, Mamoth locomotive works and Bob Dean, for example. When word of the project gets out, people with home foundries would probably come on board. Some of these are pretty sophisticated.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are alternatives to finding that elusive $1,000,000.00 grant.

Just my $0.02

Greg B.

Dana Deering replied:
Quote
Try this:

http://www.geocities.com/perus_pirapora/efpp-14.htm

http://www.geocities.com/perus_pirapora/efpp-10.htm

Stephen Hussar replied:
Quote
Here they are, thanks Dana! Why the water tanks on an engine equipped with a tender?




ETSRRCo replied:
Quote
This is a good idea except for the modifications that would be needed. The tanks, valve gear, pilot, cylinders and other things would have to be changed. Another thing, removing the tanks and pilot would affect the locomotives traction. If the locomotive was designed with side tanks then it was sprung and equalized with them. Taking them off could make the locomotive to light and slippery on her feet. In a book of mine called "Logging by Rail. The British Columbia Story" and in it they have a few locomotives that had their side tanks removed and it was found that this made the locomotives a little to squirrelly so they had to add smaller side tanks filled with ballast to put more weight on the wheels. Page 207 Comox Logging #16. Another thing is they look like they will need A LOT of TLC to get them running. Otherwise it would be nice but the #7 replica is probable going to come first. Very neat locomotives though.

-Eric

Dana Deering replied:
Quote
Steve,

The locomotives were originally built as saddle tankers but the water capacity was too small so they built tenders for them.  Eric, you are correct about the tanks.  The cement company in Brazil that owns them put ballast in the tanks to maintain adhesion.  I am half kidding about getting one because I am nearing the big 5-0 and ten years is a long time to wait for #11 and I want to see it built but I also want a Prairie so in the interest of time for us older guys I suggest it so I can be around to see both!  You youngsters and all that time ahead of you!

These locomotives have been in storage since 1983 and would need a lot of work.  The valve gear would probably have to stay as is because of the cylinder placement (farther out for Walsheart (sp) valve gear?) so I don't think we could put southern on her.  Anyway, it's all just dreaming.

Steve, can you tell a technophobe how you posted those images?  There was no 8 year old around to help me.

Dana

Stephen Hussar replied:
Quote
Thanks, Dana (and Eric) -- very interesting.  No problem, I just posted detailed instructions as a separate post in the "General Discussion" category.

As far as obtaining or importing a locomotive from another country, I can definitley see it happening. Lots of stuff has been repatriated from Central America over the years... And once Fidel is gone things may change in Cuba...

Wayne Laepple replied:
Quote
Concerning the two-foot gauge Baldwins in Brazil, I spent a fair amount of time during the summer and fall of 2005 trying to chase down the status of these locomotives. I was finally able to connect with a California man, Dr. John Kirchner, who travels extensively in South America and sometimes guides rail study tours. He told me that entire railway is in suspended animation, similar to the East Broad Top or the Quincy & Torch Lake. The line is owned by a cement company, which declared bankruptcy and shut down in 1983. Since then, the railway has been declared a heritage site by the provincial government. What all this means is that the cement company may not sell anything to satisfy its debts and cannot scrap the railway or anything else on the site.

Dr. Kirchner put me in touch with a man in Brazil who lives near Sao Paulo, where the railway is located. He is part of a railway club which is trying to preserve the line as much as they can with very limited resources. He told me that everything is indeed in situ, and he was of the opinion that there is no chance that we (or anyone else) could extricate a locomotive from Brazil anytime soon. Even the club can do little more than try to keep the entire location secure.

My idea was to get the carcass of one of the 2-4-2 or 2-4-0 engines to provide the drivers, cylinders and frames for a replica no. 7 locomotive, since it is obvious that a new boiler would be required. The gentleman in Brazil, whose name I don't remember, said even the "dumped" engines, some of which have been on the scrap line for 40 years, are part of the heritage declaration and could not be disposed of.

As for the 2-6-2 side tank engines, it would probably be possible to add weights to the frame and even on the running boards to make them less slippery. Obviously, as water is used from the pannier tanks, the engine becomes lighter and thus develops less tractive effort. The Sumpter Valley RR In Oregon had to add weights to the running boards when they converted the Uintah Ry. 2-6-6-2T's into tender engines. Heck, the Lehigh Valley's SW-8 diesels were ballasted up from 105 to 115 tons by placing slabs of steel under the cab and under the radiator fan.

ETSRRCo replied:
Quote
Dana you could put Southern on them with those cylinders. Our Baldwin 2-6-2 (ex SS&SRy #26) has the same style cylinders and has Southern valve gear. Don't get me wrong I would love to see a 6 replica. I would really like to see the SR&RL #24. Below is a photo of the 26 which is one my favorite narrow gauge steamers. Gotta love a Baldwin!


-Eric

Dana Deering replied:
Quote
Eric,

She is a beauty!  What about the counter balancing on the Braziliain locos?  Would it be difficult to convert to Southern Valve gear if the counter balances are on the cranks?  I do like the looks of those spoked pilot and trailing truck wheels.  Very classy.

Dana

ETSRRCo replied:
Quote
I don't see why it would be. The Southern Valve gear setup would have to be in the same area the current Walsherts is. Also remember the #6 had counterbalances on the cranks as well. It could be done. You would just have to have an example of Southern to copy from and make all the components yourselves. She is a beauty but she currently sits dead in a storage barn out back of the shops. That photo was taken just minutes after I had finished whipping her down. It breaks my heart that she is sitting inoperable. It was the first steam locomotive I ever worked on.

-Eric

pockets replied:
Quote
Eric,

Do you have any specs on that beauty?

Greg B.

ETSRRCo replied:
Quote
So you like my girl! haha. Well she was built in 1920 by Baldwin for the Surry Sussex & Southampton Railway in Virginia. In 1925 she flipped over in a ditch and exploded. They had a new boiler built for the locomotive by Baldwin (this is what I am told). In 1933 she was sold to the Grey Lumber Co. then sold to the Agent Lumber Co finally winding up at the end of a runway at the Cape May NJ Airport. NJMT started to lease the locomotive in 1972 and returned it to service. In 2001 she was removed from service due to failing a boiler test. The current management has no current plans to return her to service. (one of the many reasons I am at the New Hope & Ivyland now.)

Driver Dia: 36in

Pony & trailing truck: 24in

cylinders: 12x18(not sure how correct that is)

boiler pressure: 150

wheel base: 20'7"

I don't know much more then that. I'll find more later.

-Eric

petecosmob replied:
Quote
Eric, you left off the guage of #26! What guage track does it run on?

And just how bad off is the boiler anyway? With the three (four if you count Boothbay,) 2' er museums in Maine, it's a wonder someone isn't clammering to move her North and show hwe somwe love.

But then, is NJMT even willing to sell?

These are the questions I ponder tonight.
Cosmo

pockets replied:
Quote
Eric,

Yes, I like that gal. Let's see, now. That works out to 3-3/4" bore x 5-5/8" stroke. Hmmm
I had Pappasmurf (Erie Atlantic) on the phone when I spotted your response. He says Hi.

My tastes generally run to the 1890s, but for a modern engine, her proportions are almost perfect. She's actually taller drivered than the Mt. Gretna 4-4-0's. I also like the full diamond, arch bars under the tender.

Are there any drawings for this little lady?

Thanks for the information,

Greg B.

Glenn Christensen replied:
Quote
Hi Cosmo,

Too bad for our purposes, SS&S #26 is three foot gauge.

Best Regards,

Glenn

pockets replied:
Quote
That, my friends, is a cryin' shame...

Greg B.

petecosmob replied:
Quote
Yeah, kinda figgured.

I'm guessin it'd take waaaaay to much alteration to reguage her and make her an outside framer.

Well, we can keep lookin.

ETSRRCo replied:
Quote
YOU CANT HAVE HER SHE'S MINE!!!! lol NJMT does not own the locomotive. It is leased to us by a privet owner. Yes she is three foot gauge (and there's nothing wrong with 3ft). As for the boiler she needs a new firebox. Some small areas were very thin (like 1/8in thin). She was the perfect size, power and has the perfect lines. I love that locomotive and if I had the money I would buy it and restore it. Then I would buy two tractor trailer trucks, certify the boiler in every state that has a three foot gauge railroad, then go on road trips with my locomotive.............. Ok back to the real world. On very big difference between the 26 and the 6 (besides the gauge) is the connecting rod goes to #3 driver where the 6 went to #2. She is a great locomotive but my new baby is the beauty in the picture below. New Hope & Ivyland #40. It was my first day as student fireman yesterday. It was AWSOME!!!!

-Eric

-O there are no drawings that I know of for the 26. Would make a sweet live steam locomotive though.


pockets replied:
Quote
Yeah, Eric. In 2-1/2" scale, she'd be drop dead georgeous. By cruising some websites and browsing some catalogs, You'ld probably be pleasantly surprised at what's available. She is, after all, a Baldwin catalog engine.

Greg B.

Dana Deering replied:
Quote
You're right, Eric,

After I wrote that note I went and looked at photos of #6 (any excuse to gaze on her loveliness!) and immediately saw that the counter balances were indeed on the cranks.  Now we have no excuse.  We just pop down to Brazil and make off with one (they wouldn't miss just one, would they?) of those Baldwins and convert her.  Just thinking about seeing and hearing #6, or a resurrected version of her thundering up the Mountain gives me the shivers.  What a sight and sound that must have been with her hauling one of those potato trains!

Dana

gordon cook replied:
Quote
Better watch it Dana, or your spouse might get a little jealous. :')

This reminds me of when I was getting ready to leave for Maine, and I referred to 'seeing my mistress' as I was talking to my dear wife about my travels. She gave me a look, then realized I was talking about the WW&F!

Good thing she understands about such obsessions.

Gordon Cook

Glenn Christensen replied:
Quote
Hi Gents,

Thought I'd add a little extra fuel to the fire ...

According to David Conrad's, "The Steam Locomotive Directory", Vol. 2:

The following 30" gauge locomotives were located at Ingenio San Francisco El Naranjal, in Lerdo de Tejada, Veracruz state, Mexico

Baldwin 2-6-2Ts, CNs 14798 and 14799.
Both were originally 2 foot gauge built for the La Torre y Tepetongo in 1896 as their numbers 4 and 5.  These locomotives have 11X16" cylinders 33" drivers, and weigh roughly 23 tons each.  When they were broadened out to 30" gauge, they retained their outside frames.  One of these locos was depicted in the back section of the original version of Moody's book, "The Maine Two Footers".

As if that's not enough, they also have:

1) a 10-ton 0-4-2 Porter (haven't seen a photo)

2) a 17-ton Baldwin 0-4-4RT (inside frame)

3) a rather unattractive O&K 2-6-0 (outside frame)

Do I hear the carpetbags rustling out there?

Grins and Best Regards,

Glenn

MikeW replied:
Quote
Since all of the existing locomotives (including #10) are Forney types, I think it would be interesting to have a 2-6-0 or 2-6-2 in the stable.  Also, maybe it would be possible to work with the folks in England (Brecon Mountain) to build two simultaneously.

ETSRRCo replied:
Quote
Well it could only be a 2-6-2 because the WW&F never had a 2-6-0. As much as I would love to have a 2-6-2 the 2-4-4 is coming first as parts are already starting to take shape and we are moving right along on the drawings. I talked to Jason the other night and he discovered something that will be a huge help. The person who designed the B&SR #5 for Portland shortly there after went to Baldwin and designed all of the early Baldwin two footers. There are many similarities between the two. If you compare the builders photo of the 5 and the builders photo of the 7 you can see the similar lines. You just have to look past the domes, stack and inside frame.

-Eric

Stewart Rhine replied:
Quote
Gordon,  I'm a little late on this post but here goes. That number 11 plate is real nice.  Bernie did a super job on it.  I did some research at the train show yesterday.   There was a guy with a table full of Baldwin builders plates and I asked him about colors.  Most of his plates had no paint on them and some had been repainted.  A few had very old paint.  All the painted ones had red paint around the number and black paint on the outer ring.   He told me that the Baldwin Company standard was to paint them that way.  He said there were  exceptions like some of the EBT engines that had black around the number and red on the outer ring but it was rare.

The number plates on engine's 6 and 7 were probably painted as most Baldwin plates were.  You can't tell from any of the period photographs which shade is lighter but it's a safe bet that the red was in the center.  I think the 11 plate should be painted that way.  It would look great!  Just look at the avatar James has.

Stewart

ETSRRCo replied:
Quote
Well then I work with a rarity. The 40 at New Hope has black around the number and red on the outer ring. If you look at the picture of the 26 it's number plate is all red. I have a feeling it was whatever the railroad decided to paint it. I personally like the 40's.


-Eric

elecuyer replied:
Quote
Some folks are starting to talk (seriously) about building replica locomotives on the RYPN Interchange message forum. Maybe a joint venture would be in order (although I suspect that we have our hands full already with #9)

-Ed Lecuyer

Stewart Rhine replied:
Quote
Eric, The number does stand out better with the black paint in the center.

Stewart

petecosmob replied:
Quote
Joint venture maybe not so bad an idea,

if they're building locos on a regular basis, could become quite cost effective. Possibly a good source for parts, either spare or replacement. Just make sure they're not all metric!
Cosmo

gordon cook replied:
Quote
Is there a consensus that the #11 plate should be red in the middle and black around the outside, a la #6 plate James has put up?

I actually liked the black in the middle, red outside like on NH&I #40 myself.

Time for a survey?? I think Jason should have a say.

Good thing you mentioned this, I was thinking of getting out the paint next week, and all I have now is black!

Gordon

Stewart Rhine replied:
Quote
Gordon,  I think a poll for the number plate colors is a good idea.  I also agree that Jason should have a say.

Too bad there was no color film around when the two foot Baldwins were polishing the rails in Maine.

Stewart

Allan Fisher replied:
Quote
When we had the kind offer to have a number plate made for #10, Jason was adamant that he did not want red anywhere. But if anyone can prove that the red was actually used on WW&F locomotives, you may just change his mind.

Stewart Rhine replied:
Quote
Allan,  Jason is right.  The Vulcan Works never used red on their number plates.  Number 10's plate is correct - as it would have been made in 1904.  There were some Vulcan builders plates and a couple of number plates at the show and all had black paint on the back ground.

Baldwin is the only builder I know of that used red on their front number plates.  A replica of WW&F locomotive 6 or 7 or a new Baldwin style 11 would have red on the number plate.  I like the red in the center but it doesn't matter to me which variation is used - what matters is that we are planning to build a new 2-4-4T.  That is GREAT!!

Stewart

Stephen Hussar replied:
Quote
I think both styles are nice, but I will admit to liking the photo of the NH&I #40 plate that Eric put up. And interestingly enough in the photo below, even though it's black & white, the center of the plate looks darker than the background color of the outer ring....


Ira Schreiber replied:
Quote
Back in the sign business days, we used to indentify colors by placing a black and a red strip next to each other, then photocopying them in black and white.

This then gave you a grey scale reference to the red vs. the black. You could then compare the sample to the photo and determine fairly quickly whether it was red or black.

Good Luck,

Ira

John McNamara replied:
Quote
Does it matter whether the film used to take the original picture was orthochromatic or panchromatic? I have a vague recollection that the sensitivity to red varies with these films. Therefore, I would expect that the red/black strip test would have be done with the appropriate type of film, which I think would be orthochromatic, but I'm not sure. Further info, Ira?

Ira Schreiber replied:
Quote
IIRC, it does not matter, as the key is the relative differences in the grey scale vs. the black. The brass color should appear almost white, the red close to but not the same as the black.

Non-scientific, but I think effective.

Ira

Stewart Rhine replied:
Quote
Steve,  Thanks for posting the shot of #7.  Your copy does make it look like the center color is darker than the ring.   Hey, engine 11 would look good next to #10 if the plate was painted that way.   Of course a #11 would look good anywhere on our railroad.

Stewart

bperch replied:
Quote
I was surprised that you guys wanted the #10 plate painted completely black and it looks good that way.  If I had my way I would have painted the outer perimeter red.

When I had the plates cast up for Steve, I was in the middle of having plates cast for several people in California.  Both a Baldwin star plate and a #1 plate have been sent out or will be sent out shortly with a black center and red perimeter.

Somewhere I saw a plate with a medium blue center with a red perimeter and being the artist, I liked this one the most.  I may have done this on one or two plates.

I sent two Porter builders plates and a small Baldwin builders plate to California finished and painted International Red and I think they looked just perfect.

What colors original plates are painted now does not necessarily reflect what they were painted when new or in service.

I am not trying to drum up any business in plates.  Some of the patterns I am using were made by me but I no longer own them and it took quite a while for the person whom I borrowed them from to locate them in his storage area.  These are to be returned shortly along with a finished plate as thanks for the use of the patterns.  I am currently "plated out" and have to begin making some patterns for CNJ 113 which we hope will be under steam next year.

Bernie Perch

sgprailfan replied:
Quote
Well, #7 is a beutiful engine.

Don't know if this will help or not but, at  it says Don's Rail Photos, I can't put up the link to the page at this time.

"#17 24" gauge 2-4-4T started at Wisconsin Dells on speculation but never finished. It is now in the middle of the locomotive shop at Wisconsin Dells."

Maybe you could just buy this one?

ETSRRCo replied:
Quote
It would have to follow traditional Baldwin practices of that time period and have to be almost exact to the #7. That is what we are going for. We want the locomotive to look as close to the original as possible. This does mean a lot more work for me Jason and the others on the design team but in the end it will be worth it. Keep in mind the project is not going to officially start for another 10 years. We are just getting the engineering part of the project out of the way now. Also we must take into consideration the possibility that this will be as fare as we ever get with the project. I'm not saying I don't think it can be done. I know it can be but I also know that things can change and go wrong that "we" have no control over. Like they say, "don't count your chickens before they hatch." As for that 2-4-4 I think I can speak for Jason in saying that if we are going to do this we are going to build it from the ground up. He wouldn't have me doing all these drawings and he wouldn't be spending hours running through calculations, photographs, Baldwin and Portland drawings if we were just going to buy parts of a locomotive that is kind of close to the 7.

-Eric

bperch replied:
Quote
I was out in Wisconsin Dells during the summer of 1973 and I saw what I believe to be the locomotive discussed.  It was basically proportioned to standard gauge with a large cab.  It was no where near to the proportions of the Maine locomotives.  Even though the workmanship was excellent, I found the proportions to be typical of their equipment--awkward.

Bernie

Stephen Hussar replied:
Quote
Quote
Keep in mind the project is not going to officially start for another 10 years... -Eric

I have high hopes that the project can ramp-up much sooner than that... 

Stewart Rhine replied:
Quote
Bernie, You are right about the surviving number plates.  As I said, many of the ones at the Gaithersburg Show (as well as ones I have seen at other shows) have no paint on them.  It's true that the newly repainted ones were done to the owners' liking or what they thought the colors were.  The ones with old paint were probably repainted in the railroad's shop at some time.

My point is that you did a beautiful job on number 10's plate and the number 11 plate looks great too.  We should make every effort to have the correct colors on the plate if we are presenting the engine as how it would have looked 100 years ago.  The correct colors compliment the fine work you did.

Stewart

ETSRRCo replied:
Quote
Here is my drawing of what she will look like. Sorry for the bad scanning. The paper is 18"x 24" and my scanner is maybe half that size. One thing that I know is wrong and have to correct is the pony wheel. It is a eight spoked wheel not a five.

-Eric


Stewart Rhine replied:
Quote
Eric, That's a beautiful plan.

Stewart

Stephen Hussar replied:
Quote
Yes, beautiful indeed!!! Thanks for scanning and posting it! Eric, when you get to fixing the spoke configuration, could you try tweaking the positioning of her number slightly by putting a "1" on each side of the brace on the cab? Great job!


Ira Schreiber replied:
Quote
Very nice job, Eric. Now, when do we start the fund for this one?

Ira Schreiber

Aurora, CO

Where 3' is broad gauge

ETSRRCo replied:
Quote
I dont know if anyone has noticed this but in the photo of the 7 at Head Tide that Stephen posted there is a rather strange coinsidents. Look at the number on the headlight of the 7!


Stephen Hussar replied:
Quote
Quote
I dont know if anyone has noticed a rather strange coincidence. Look at the number on the headlight of the 7!

Oh yes, I noticed! 

sgprailfan replied:
Quote
I noticed to maybe you should put 7 on #11's plate, have I seen that Head light on a picture of number 10?

Stewart Rhine replied:
Quote
Number 10's headlight is from the same era but is smaller and does not have side lights.

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
I always thought this and never had anyreason to think otherwise, so someone here can tell me if I'm wrong. I thought that number was the train number. I don't remember reading it anywhere about the WW&F doing that but that's what I was thinking it was. Have I been inorrect this whole time?

Mike

James Patten replied:
Quote
Any number that you see on the front of the headlight is the train number.  So, in the above photo, Loco #7 is pulling Train #11.

You don't always see that train number in WW&F photos.  I suspect it depended on the crew and possibly the general prosperity of the railroad.
Ed Lecuyer
Moderator, WW&F Forum

Paul Horky

  • Museum Member
  • Baggageman
  • **
  • Posts: 148
    • View Profile
Re: New Locomotives
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2009, 09:28:18 PM »
If this new engine is built why not just number it  second 7 as the original no longer exesists and many railroads renumbered using the same number? The only reason the original WW&F did not renumber was that all engines eccept 1 were still around so the line continued. Since every thing eccept 9 was scraped if a receration is done use the correct number.

Bill Reidy

  • Museum Member
  • Fireman
  • ****
  • Posts: 458
  • Life member. Ack.
    • View Profile
Re: New Locomotives
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2009, 11:02:54 PM »
Historically the WW&F did not reuse locomotive numbers, so I like to fact the museum plans to continue this tradition by numbering the new locomotive 11.  It's nice to see the museum follow the methods of the original railroad in this manner, as it has done in so many other aspects.

- Bill

Bill Sample

  • Museum Member
  • Hostler
  • ***
  • Posts: 293
    • View Profile
Re: New Locomotives
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2009, 08:49:12 PM »
Amen to that, Bill!  This policy is one of the many strengths of the current WW&FRy.