Author Topic: AMTP in Pithiviers, France  (Read 65773 times)

Paul Uhland

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Re: AMTP in Pithiviers, France
« Reply #105 on: October 05, 2019, 03:46:54 PM »
I would say ARRET would translate as STOP AND STAY until cleared to proceed,as per practiced by the NYC Transit  subway system.
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Bill Baskerville

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Re: AMTP in Pithiviers, France
« Reply #106 on: October 05, 2019, 06:25:56 PM »
Alain, interesting. Thanks for the explanation.
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ALAIN DELASSUS

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Re: AMTP in Pithiviers, France
« Reply #107 on: January 13, 2020, 11:32:44 AM »
SOME NEWS FROM THE AMTP
Hello ! it's high time I gave you some news from Pithiviers.The 2019 operating season ended in December with the Santa's Specials that made it big with 766 riders. In 2019, 6011 riders took the trains, a little bit more than the previous year. The ever first AMTP Halloween Specials worked out well with 302 riders and a lot of fun. But then again without the terrible temperature recorded last Summer out here the turnout would have been better.
The MTP #4 a Brigade Lok painted in black was put into operation again in August. With its comeback the association has 3 steam engines out of 5 in running order. In October a second- hand diesel  locomotive was purchased in Germany. That class V10 C built in 1973 by LKM in ex East Germany is not up and running but repairable in the long range. The AMTP leadrship is far seeing according all those environmental threats against the coal use in Europe.
The diesel locomotive MTP #T 11 is being put together again, its Voith gearbox has been totally overhauled  in Germany . It has costed an arm and a leg. #2 boiler is being  fit with new flues, that locomotive built by Schneider in 1870 will be the star of the Steam Festival that will be held in May to celebrate its 150 years.
Finally the only fly in the ointment is still the track and the hit-or-miss works carried out by Colas company that is now in a dispute with the Conseil Général du Loiret administration the owner of the ROW and of the track. A never ending story that doesn't impaired the abiding feel good factor that rules the association. See you soon on the forum.

Jeff Schumaker

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Re: AMTP in Pithiviers, France
« Reply #108 on: January 13, 2020, 12:08:45 PM »
Thanks for the update, Alain.

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Roger Cole

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Re: AMTP in Pithiviers, France
« Reply #109 on: January 13, 2020, 12:49:24 PM »
Alain - has anyone looked into converting one of the coal-burning locomotives to burn oil?  Would that placate the environmental concerns?  A tourist railroad in Colorado is in the process of converting one of their historic engines to burn oil.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 06:12:15 PM by Roger Cole »

John Kokas

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Re: AMTP in Pithiviers, France
« Reply #110 on: January 13, 2020, 07:23:23 PM »
Or Propane / Natural Gas - even less pollution.  Plus you don't have to worry about accidental spills.
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Graham Buxton

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Re: AMTP in Pithiviers, France
« Reply #111 on: January 13, 2020, 08:28:01 PM »
Or Propane / Natural Gas - even less pollution.  Plus you don't have to worry about accidental spills.

Note that 'spilled' propane behaves considerably differently than 'spilled' natural gas.  As a vapor, propane specific gravity is about 1.52 (air is 1.00) and the specific gravity of natural gas is about 0.60 - 0.70.   The effect of that is that while 'spilled' natural gas rises in air, 'spilled' propane sinks in air.  That makes propane more likely to collect/stay in a semi-enclosed area, or a depression in the ground surface.   From my perspective, that makes spilled propane  more hazardous than spilled natural gas.


Reference:  https://miningquiz.com/download/GasSpecificGravity.htm
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 08:30:58 PM by Graham Buxton »
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Benjamin Richards

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Re: AMTP in Pithiviers, France
« Reply #112 on: January 13, 2020, 10:54:45 PM »
I'd be less concerned about spills and more concerned about rapid volumetric expansion.

Propane fuel tanks are pressure vessels, which have to be inspected, tested, and re-certified every so often. 300psi is a reasonable upper working limit.

An LNG tank is a giant Thermos bottle. There is still some vapor pressure as it warms; I do not know if these systems are vented like liquid nitrogen systems are. Close cousin CNG again uses a pressure vessel, sometimes upwards of 4000 psi.

ALAIN DELASSUS

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Re: AMTP in Pithiviers, France
« Reply #113 on: January 15, 2020, 10:22:42 AM »
Hello yous and thank you so much for you interesting replies. I must admit that I'm an outright coal burning locomotives follower. Born 71 years back in northern France in the middle of coal mines I do like coal the  smoke it produces and the peculiar smell it gives off when burning. I lived through the end of steam locomotives era that were all coal burning ones where I lived then. So I can't divide the steam locomotive from coal. OK, nowadays  oil is  more practical and safer than coal as reguards handling and fire hasard, those are the reasons why Big Boy has been changed into a oilburning engine. Not only oil does not cause the same dramatic effect as coal does but thecnically speaking oil is more aggressive toward the fire box and the outer firebox. UP steam crew had to change quite a lot of staybolts after the first trip of the 4014 to Utah in May.  Out here the associations that run oil burning  class 141 R American Mikados often meet with quite a lot of boiler issues. In Pithiviers the AMTP has been using Russian coal for over 5 years that unfortunately hardly smokes and does not even smell . Believe it or not,last year they were even forced to burn pieces of wood beforehand dipped in creosote  to get smoke for an UK photographer party.  In Pithiviers if coal is banned someday they will prefer running vintage diesel locomotives to stoking up the steam locomotives with oil or propane or ,when we are at it, electricity. Hopefully that 'll be the day.

Benjamin Richards

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Re: AMTP in Pithiviers, France
« Reply #114 on: January 15, 2020, 11:11:45 AM »
Fascinating about the "smokeless" coal! I bet someone here in the US could ship you an ISO container full of "smoky" coal for a modest fee. ;D

John Kokas

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Re: AMTP in Pithiviers, France
« Reply #115 on: January 15, 2020, 06:41:51 PM »
Alain,

According to our brethren in the UK, the EU's favored coal right now is from Poland.  A lot closer to you than we are but if you really want some U.S. coal,  I think we could find a way to send a sample to you.
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ALAIN DELASSUS

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Re: AMTP in Pithiviers, France
« Reply #116 on: January 16, 2020, 01:13:46 PM »
Hello and thank you for your coal offers. You know I'm almost the only one on the AMTP that complains about our smokeless Russian coal. The BOD states that it's not too expensive and firemen appreciate it because  it burns very well and doesn't make a lot of klinker at that. The riders don't notice anything but according the prevailing attitude of mind as regards the pollution I'm fairly sure the steamcrew would get  nasty remarks if the coal still smoked as in the old days. Well, that just the way it goes outhere. As for me I get over it by looking at pics and watching videos on which the steam locomotives belch out pillars of smoke or huge plumes of gray steam especially in the US, the WW& F #9 is no exception of course.

ALAIN DELASSUS

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Re: AMTP in Pithiviers, France
« Reply #117 on: February 25, 2020, 02:30:59 AM »
SAFETY FIRST  Part 4 . For previous parts please see replies #101 ,97 and 96 above.
It's hight time I resumed this column. Besides the 3 main documents quoted above in reply # 101 the AMTP safety file aka the Rulebook comprises also 4 instructions booklets concerning the engineer,26 pages, the fireman,17 pages, the conductor,15 pages and the dispatcher/ station agent, 14 pages. They  describe in details their safety duties and general tasks  all along an operating day from the time they sign the the volunteer log through the time they leave their position . Moreover these booklets give to the steam crew and diesel locomotive engineer quite a lot of instructions and advice to use the power motive properly in order to avoid damaging it, consequently they are all  fully part of the training process.
Interestingly enough at the the AMTP only the engineer and the dispatcher are regarded as safety positions by the Transportation Administration but not the conductor although actually he shares in with the engineer the responsibility for the safe  running of the train in sofar as he is in charge of the safety of the riders.
In 2005 the Rulebook got the Tranportation Administration approvoal and the AMTP was temporarily licensed to run its tourist railway for 10 years. In 2015 the Rulebook was updated under the supervision of the inspection bureau in charge of the safety enforcement on the tourist railways and for the second time met with the approvoal of the Transportation Administration that definitively licensed the AMTP to run its tourist railway.
From 7 pages in 1967 to 140 pages nowadays the AMTP rulebook has put on weight a lot for 50 years, I assume that te WW&F rulebook has followed suit as time has gone by. I'd really appreciate if you could describe it to me shortly. To becontinued...


ALAIN DELASSUS

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Re: AMTP in Pithiviers, France
« Reply #118 on: March 04, 2020, 12:07:19 PM »
SAFETY FIRST  Part 5.
Hello ! I was awed by  the mega train you ran during The Grand Reunion. If I'm not mistaken it was a 13 car consist and I noticed 5 breakies besides the conductor. I wonder how long that train was .
According to the AMTP rulebook the lenght of the consist must not exceed 7 cars, which makes around 194'. This restriction is actually a weight restriction due to the fact that the cars are not fitted with any breaking system, consequently the breaking of the train relies only on the motive power. Considering the Transportation Administration technical standards relating to the tourist railway, the breaking of a two foot gauge train can only rely on the locomotive breaking system if,given a 0.15 % grade, the locomotive weight is above the 1/4 of the  one of the towed cars. At the AMTP the steepiest grade is located in Pithiviers , it starts 570' after the Pithiviers Museum station and goes down to the grade crossing #1. This 250' long strech of track is partly sharp curved. According to official old documents from T.P.T the percentage of that grade was 0.15% but after the widening of the grade crossing in 1991 the length of the grade was shortened and consequently the percentage of the grade increased a bit. This new percentage has never been measured since then.Tthe weight of the locomotives is well known  but it's not the case for the passenger cars because most of them have been made over. Four three foot gauge enclosed cars were adapted for the two foot gauge and  5 boxcars were changed into  open cars. So the weight of the passenger cars relies on an estimation. Finally after quite a lot of talk and letters the Transportation Administration has decided that a 7 cars train was consistent with its technical standards. That's why the position of breaky does not exist at the AMTP.  But that steep grade is still a real concern for the engineers because they must stop their train before the grade crossing before to cross it.   To be continued...

John L Dobson

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Re: AMTP in Pithiviers, France
« Reply #119 on: March 04, 2020, 12:41:25 PM »
Alain,

According to our brethren in the UK, the EU's favored coal right now is from Poland.  A lot closer to you than we are but if you really want some U.S. coal,  I think we could find a way to send a sample to you.

The Ffestiniog currently burns Welsh steam coal from an open-cast pit in South Wales, but the long-term future of this pit is uncertain. This is a pity because, not only do a number of British heritage railways use this coal, but it is also used (supplied in white bags labelled 'Welsh Steam Coal') by the Rhaetian Railway and the Dampfbahn Furka-Bergstrecke in Switzerland.
John L Dobson
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