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Author Topic: Coach 9 Official Work Thread  (Read 2898 times)
Bill Baskerville
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« on: April 18, 2017, 08:14:02 PM »

I'm here for two weeks with a few goals in mind:

Help Eric with documentation for new coach #9
Disassemble a seat from #3 to use it to create patterns for Coach 9 seats

Spring is starting to spring here in Maine.  I see reddish buds on maple trees. 



Harold, Eric,

If either of you are around the SWW, and if you have gotten the details worked out, perhaps you could brief me on the door and window requirements for coach 9 so the Southern Narrow Gauge Door and Window Shop can do some advance fabrication planning.

That is unless there is a more pressing need for other items.

Bill

Bill,

We have been looking at the windows in detail.  (Maybe this should be moved to new coach thread).  We believe that the only original window is in the saloon (bathroom).  It has details that none of the other windows have.  I have measured all the critical parts, and will make a drawing with all the joinery.  They are pretty straightforward.  Mahogany for the wood, minimal decorative details.

I also have measured the end doors.  Still need to pull and measure a clerestory window.

Harold,

Thanks for the info, I didn't realize the coach 3 windows were not original.  I also forgot all about the clerestory windows. 

Is not having Mahogany a deal killer?  I haven't searched for a source of Mahogany.

Bill
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Mike Fox
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« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2017, 09:18:54 PM »

Bill,
When you drop the doors for coach 8, you can stop in the Portland area and get some rough Mahogany. I forget the name of the company, but have heard the commercial on the radio several times. "The wood of the world is available at"...
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Mike
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Mike Fox
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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2017, 09:23:45 PM »

Downes & Reader, Gorham, Me.
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Mike
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Steve Zuppa
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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2017, 09:24:20 PM »

IIRC, according to Jason's research, the interior trim in coach 3 that we always thought was mahogany, was oak. If that's the case, trim supplies should be readily available.
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Philip Marshall
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« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2017, 11:02:32 PM »

It should be pretty simple to differentiate oak from mahogany. Oak is a ring-porous wood with really large and dramatic rays (which give quarter-sawn oak its character), whereas mahogany is a diffuse-porous wood with very fine rays -- somewhat resembling birch. (In fact, 19th-century furniture makers would sometimes stain birch to make it look like mahogany.) If possible, look for end grain on the inside of a joint where it's not covered by varnish.
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Jason M Lamontagne
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« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2017, 12:04:38 AM »

Eric and Harold have a thorough handle on the wood species we need.

What I thought was mahogany trim is mostly oak, hence Steve Zuppa's statements.  Actually, Eric verified that.

Since then, Eric has discovered that the window sills are actually mahogany.

Harold has found the only surviving original window and confirmed that it is mahogony.  Doors are oak.

In short- the decorative woods appear to all be oak.  Mahogany was chosen in a couple places where dimensional stability was desired. 

See ya
Jason
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Harold Downey
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« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2017, 12:11:13 AM »

Inside trim is all oak.  Builder photos from archives confirm it was always oak.  The end doors are 100% oak currently, and it is quartersawn with visible rays.   I think it is important to stick with quartersawn oak for new doors, to assure stability -- resistance to warping. 

Most of the current windows are mahogany, or at least a similar tropical wood.  The single original window is also mahogany.  This wood is used for stability in a very tough application, not to match the rest of the oak trim.    At the time this coach was built, even foundry patterns used mahogany.    The window frames are 11/16" thick, not very substantial. 

I am sure mahogany or an equivalent is available at most hardwood suppliers.  I have seen it in Austin.   

Harold. 
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Bill Baskerville
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« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2017, 02:37:08 AM »

All,

Thanks for the information.

I live in a small community with limited shopping sources unless I go to Richmond about 70 miles away.  However, I have found both Honduras and African Mahogany in several sizes about 20 miles from here, the 'SNGD&WS'.  Do we care which source.  The same sizes are not necessarily available in both sources.

Once I have the dimensions of the necessary lumber I will see what I can round up.  I have been making doors and coach 8 windows out of red oak.  Will that work for the doors on coach 9?

Bill
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Bill Baskerville
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« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2017, 05:03:47 AM »

Harold, Ed,

With apologies for being scattered, I will also need to know if there is any special glass in the clerestory window.  I have been using either 1/8" or 3/16" clear tempered glass for the windows and doors.  I doubt they had tempered glass then, but it may be a good idea to use it now.

Bill
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John McNamara
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« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2017, 05:11:20 AM »

On the subject of clerestory glass, do we know if the WW&F used clear glass, frosted glass, or etched glass?

-John M
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Philip Marshall
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« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2017, 06:06:32 AM »

I have found both Honduras and African Mahogany...Do we care which source.  The same sizes are not necessarily available in both sources.

I imagine the mahogany in coach 3 is West Indian or "Cuban" mahogany (Swietenia mahagoni), but that species is now so rare due to historical exploitation that it's unavailable as lumber. Honduras mahogany (Swietenia macrophylla) would be a good match, even if it's not exactly the same wood. I don't know if African mahogany (Khaya senegalensis) was even commercially available in the US in the 1890s, though it was already being exported to Europe by that time, apparently.
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Jason M Lamontagne
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« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2017, 11:29:52 AM »

Hi Bill,

The lower window glass needs to be safety glass; we're moving all window glass to safety glass.

The clerestory windows are particularly special- stamped, colored glass.  I'm certain that will be a special sub-project to find a supplier or reproduction method.

We'd discussed the possibility of your making windows and doors for coach 9; our initial thought was frames only- though that could still be refined.  Maybe the safety glass could make the trip fine, but the clerestory windows have glass added in maine. 

The dimensions and joinery details must be very tightly controlled with these.  Harold is making drawings which match the originals, but there won't be freedom in developing details like on coach 8.

We look forward to discussing fine details when you get here for SWW.  Be sure to seek out Eric (Harold will be here till the Wednesday prior).

See ya
Jason
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Bill Baskerville
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« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2017, 01:26:13 PM »

Jason,

Thanks for the vote of confidence.  I am aware that the coach 9 windows and doors will have to be historically correct reproductions which is why I want to gather as much information as I can. 

The half a dozen coach 8 windows I made a few years ago traveled inside the little car with the glass already mounted.  If I use the larger car and start early I can bring the coach 9 windows inside the car over a couple of work weekends and/or my summer trip.  The doors may be narrow enough that I can also bring them inside the larger car. 

The larger coach 8 doors I will bring on a trailer with the glass unmounted, inside the car.

The Southern Narrow Gauge Door and Window Shop is at your disposal.

Bill
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Benjamin Campbell
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« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2017, 11:19:50 PM »

Will we replicate a working toilet despite the fact that we can’t use it? Will we include a coal stove? If so – do we know what model was original to the prototype?
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Jason M Lamontagne
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« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2017, 11:26:39 PM »

Yes and yes- we'd really like to install a water-heater type stove.  While it's clear they were used on the SR&RL, it's not clear whether the WW&F did.

It does appear that coaches 2 and 3 had different stoves, at least at different stages of life.

See ya
Jason
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