Author Topic: Fred Fogg  (Read 2386 times)

Jason M Lamontagne

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Re: Fred Fogg
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2017, 02:20:47 PM »
Linda has just found a W&Q promotional booklet from 1872 (then Kennebec & Wiscasset) in the Wiscasset Library called NARROW GAUGE RAILROADS: THE KENNEBEC & WISCASSET RAILROAD.

It appears that about half its content is directly lifted from Fleming's NARROW GAUGE RAILROADS of the same year.

I've yet to read it word for word, but there is a section titled "The Superiority of the Narrow Gauge."  LOVE IT!!!!

The booklet includes cost estimates for building a road from Wiscasset to Augusta in both standard gauge and three foot gauge.  It does have a section on the Festiniog; ill have to go over it carefully to see if two foot gauge was being considered as early as 1872. 

This detail will lend a hand as to the importance of Fred Fogg coming on the scene, with his two foot background, in 1892.

Bear in mind that 1872 was the bare beginning of the narrow gauge movement, and predates the B&B by 5 years.  In 1872, 3 foot or 3-6 was the most heavily promoted narrow gauge in this country.

Great find by Linda...

See ya
Jason

Philip Marshall

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Re: Fred Fogg
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2017, 05:10:28 PM »
Wow, very neat! 1872 is indeed super-early, especially for Maine given that the MEC had only just finished converting from 5'6" broad gauge to standard gauge the previous year. Who is the author of the booklet?

James Patten

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Re: Fred Fogg
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2017, 06:49:35 PM »
Ffestiniog Railway was opened in 1836 to freight traffic (as a horse & gravity railroad), and the first steam was 1863.  So at the time of writing steam was fairly new on the Ffestiniog.

Philip Marshall

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Re: Fred Fogg
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2017, 07:20:16 PM »
Yes, that's right. Narrow-gauge steam was still less than 10 years old in 1872.

Jason M Lamontagne

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Re: Fred Fogg
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2017, 01:56:41 AM »
The booklet is a response to a request from the city of Augusta to the Henry Ingalls, president of the K&W, to provide a statement on the present (May 1872) prospects of the road as well as the advantage of three foot gauge relative to standard gauge.  The letter from Augusta requests the statement specifically becasue the K&W was seeking the aid of the City of Augusta to complete the road. 

 Henry Ingalls delegated the writing of the response to the K&W's chief engineer, Col. A.W. Wildes. 

Col. Wildes examined a distance of 30-1/2 miles (Wiscasset to Augusta), with cost per mile at $22,073.69 for standard gauge and $17,141.64 for three foot gauge. 

The inquiry from Augusta is a single paragraph, typed letter, addressed to Henry Ingalls.  The response is an honest to goodness book.  It might as well be a prospectus.  It does appear to draw very heavily upon Fleming's Narrow Gauge Railways book.

There is no mention of two foot gauge in the 1872 booklet.

Linda also found an undated promotional booklet for the Wiscasset & Quebec Railroad, which looks to be dated around 1882 based on references in the text.  It is directly touting the prospect of building to Quebec and is plainly a general prospectus.  It is similar- but different- to the 1887 Wiscasset & Quebec Railroad promotional. Booklet- which has been reproduced.  Neither mentions gauge at all, though the 1882 book gives a cost per mile at $12,000, $15,000 or $20,000, depending on location.  Given Col. Wildes estimates from 1872, there's no way the 1882 could have been referencing standard gauge. 

Interesting to note that the 1882 book has some very negative things to say about the Maine Central and Boston and Maine, and their monopolistic ways. 

So, it seems the road was destined to be Narrow Gauge since the start of the narrow gauge movement, though the introduction of two foot gauge to the enterprise has yet to be pinned to a date.

See ya
Jason




Jason M Lamontagne

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Re: Fred Fogg
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2017, 02:30:40 AM »
Col. Wildes repeatedly refers to 4' 8-1/2" gauge as "common gauge," not standard gauge. 

I need to start doing that.  The audacity to think that their 4' 8-1/2" is "standard."  As much gall as the "standard railroad of the world" Pennsylvania!

No offense to all you common gauge fans out there...

See ya
Jason

Philip Marshall

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Re: Fred Fogg
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2017, 03:03:32 AM »
I'm fond of "Stephenson gauge" for 4' 8-1/2", but I'm afraid no one will know what I'm talking about so I never use it.  Alternatively, I have a friend from grad school who grew up behind the Iron Curtain in the former Czechoslovakia who refers to it as "Western gauge".

Jeff Schumaker

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Re: Fred Fogg
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2017, 02:22:37 PM »
This is a very fascinating discussion. Linda's finds are particularly noteworthy.

On another note, is anyone aware that the Sheepscot Echo from 1904-1919 is on microfilm at the Lincoln County courthouse. I'm not sure if that goes back far enough to provide possible information.

Jeff S.

Wayne Laepple

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Re: Fred Fogg
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2017, 12:28:18 PM »
Those of us who have had the sometime dubious pleasure of working on Pennsylvania Railroad steam locomotives often add a bit to the company's slogan. The Pennsylvania may have been "the standard railroad of the world," but all the rest were deluxe!

Philip Marshall

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Re: Fred Fogg
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2017, 12:30:55 AM »
Circumstantially related (or perhaps not) to the topic of Fred Fogg and Philip H. Stubbs and the early history of the W&Q, someone on Ebay is selling an 1880 Knox & Lincoln RR pass issued to none other than "P.H. Stubbs, Clerk, Sandy River RR".

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222641169207

(There is also an 1881 Bangor & Piscataquis RR pass issued to Stubbs for sale, but the Knox & Lincoln one is more interesting I think.)

« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 04:38:16 PM by Philip Marshall »