Proposed Portland Co WW&F Hopper - Official Dream Thread

[Ira Schreiber]

We have the plans for an original, never built, Portland Company hopper car. I suggested several years ago to make it a project but no one seemed interested.

Now, maybe the timing is better considering the large volume of fill to be moved.

[James Patten]

For a while we seriously considered building the hopper, about 10 or 12 years ago, but decided against it for some reason.  I think because a flatcar was more utilitarian than a hopper.

[Dave Crow]

We also discussed the Portland Co. hopper here: http://forum.wwfry.org/index.php?topic=318.0

[Rick Rowlands]

I've read about this Portland hopper car on here in several different threads.  What does one of these cars look like?  Are there plans available?  

[Philip Marshall]

Hi Rick,

Here (see attachment) is a low resolution version of the drawing for the hopper the Portland Co. proposed for the WW&F in 1901.

-Philip

[Glenn Christensen]

Hi Philip,

The WW&F hoppers look just like 2' gauge versions of the wooden hoppers used on the 3' gauge ET&WNC except one board shorter.  Check these out.

https://www.google.com/search?q=et%26wnc+hopper+car+photo&biw=1160&bih=595&tbm=isch&imgil=GDu2X_1I74u9pM%253A%253Be9miQ93fNjYzcM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.tarheelpress.com%25252FET5.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=GDu2X_1I74u9pM%253A%252Ce9miQ93fNjYzcM%252C_&usg=__nl_y0D-6q7-oe63C0kLaXFw3kXY%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjI0vO76b7MAhWG1CYKHRfTDwsQyjcILw&ei=qBQpV8jeMYapmwGXpr9Y#imgrc=GDu2X_1I74u9pM%3A


Best Regards,
Glenn

[Philip Marshall]

Thanks, Glenn. You're right, the Portland Co. hopper design for the WW&F looks very similar to the ET&WNC hoppers, much more so than to the Billmeyer & Small wooden hoppers the EBT was using in the 19th century for example.

[John Kokas]

Mike, I think that as we all get longer in the tooth that building track would win out over moving dirt.  I suggest a dump body as we could run the car right to end of track and Casey or Kubota could put the pile right into the hole.  There will be plenty of shoveling opportunities to spread and compact the backfill.  My idea would be to use at least two axles under a frame with a pickup truck bed lifted by either a hydraulic or pneumatic cylinder.  Maybe a couple of the Koppel axle/frame sets would work for the wheelsets.

Ira, I totally agree with the idea of building a Portland company hopper not just for the practicality but since none were ever built we would have a one-of-a-kind Portland car.  I wouldn't use it for fill though, to unload we end up dropping everything between the rails, then have to shovel that out and still have to move by hand.  Too much extra work.  With adjustable gates, perfect for ballast spreading.

[Mike Fox]

Honestly, we can't lay track without moving the dirt. The end dump idea is not new, but I have yet to see anything for it show up in Sheepscot. The problem is, we will have the washout done before such a car (either of them) can be fabricated.

I can see a use for both of these types of cars, even using the hopper to fill in loe spots. The problem with the hopper will be the gravel will not flow well out of it. Ballast and coal will, but gravel has a tendency to pack.

But it is great thinking. I like the ideas

[Troy Congdon]

I can see a use for both of these types of cars, even using the hopper to fill in loe spots. The problem with the hopper will be the gravel will not flow well out of it. Ballast and coal will, but gravel has a tendency to pack.

Not to sound dumb but what is the difference between gravel and ballast?

[Ira Schreiber]

Ballast generally has sharp edges to hold together but gravel is generally smooth and is rounded like river gravel versus crushed granite. The granite is far superior.

[Mike Fox]

Actually, the ballast is usually loose enough to roll down an incline, like in the hopper car, but the gravel will pack in and stick. Unless we line the car with poly sheets, then nothing will stick..

[Philip Marshall]

"Gravel" in Maine refers to what a geologist would call glacial till. It includes a range of different particle sizes (clay, sand, and small stones), so as Mike says it tends to stick together and pack down well.

[John Kokas]

You can carry and unload "fill" material from hoppers.  The problem is you need 45 degree slope sheets instead of the standard 30 degree.  That's where the gravel compacts and gets stuck.  The only way around that is to use a concrete vibrator to help loosen the load but then you also need an electrical supply and extension cords.

[Pete "Cosmo" Barrington]

Unless, of course, we make it AIR powered, then all we need is the compressor.... hmmmm.....hmmm....
HMMMMM!!!!