Whitefield Section House - Official Work Thread

[Ed Lecuyer]

MODERATORS NOTE:
New Section House has been converted from the pre-July 2008 WW&F Discussion Forum.
Some formatting may have been removed or modified from the original postings that appear quoted in this topic.
Information contained within this post may be superseded by more recent postings and conversations.
Mike Fox wrote:

All,
I just had a thought. Vern Shaw built the handcar this year and was just posting in the car storage topic when this idea came to me. How about a replicated Head Tide Section house to put the handcar in. I see the handcar being used as a table or what have you while at the museum. A replicated section house would be a nice place to keep that. And keep it looking nice. Any thoughts on this??
Mike

Stewart Rhine replied:

Mike,  Back a few weeks ago this was discussed on one of the threads.  It is a good idea.  I suggested that we build a section house on the East side of the mainline in the level area just North of the water tank.  A larger one would house the handcar, air car, and fire car. A jigger track would be run from the house out to the East rail of the main.  The area would be planked over to aid in turning the cars.  Wayne has a plan to build a handcar turntable which would enable the crews to turn the heavier cars.

James Patten replied:

Vern's handcar is only the beginning.  Vern has plans on building another handcar, plus taking the parts of two velocipedes and making ... two whole velocipedes out of them.

Then there's Leon's railcar, which once it arrives and gets wheels will need a place to live.  This first railcar is one much like the SR&RL #2 owned by the Owl's Head Transportation Museum.  Leon would like to build a second one when he's done with this, much more like the Sewall inspection car.

So we need to think ahead for storage for these.

Joe Fox replied:

Any locomotive, such as the inspection car that Leon is building, should go in the round house when and if it is built. Until that point, the car would need a place to live. However, like James and Stewart have said, the work flats and the hand car(s) can go in a building much like a section house like my dad has suggested.

Joe

Mike Fox replied:

Wayne has suggested something largher than Head Tide might be in order. Like the one in Whitefield. Unless there is another picture of one someplace, the only photo I could find was the one by the Iron bridge.
To me, this does not look larger so it cannot be the right one. I'm sure we can come up with something that will fit our needs and look authentic at the same time. Guess I'll have to do some research.
Mike

Wayne Laepple replied:

I don't have any adequate way to scale it out, but just looking at the door on the Whitefileld section house, it looks to be at least half again as big as the Head Tide building. It looks like its about 10 or 12 by 16 feet to me. But maybe it's because the Head Tide building is entered from the gable end. The Head Tide building may be "deeper."

Either one would be large enough for the handcar and the two velocipedes, since the outriggers are removable. Eventually, the Model T should have its own building or live in the roundhouse.

Stewart Rhine replied:

The section/handcar house could have 2 doors with 2 jigger tracks.  If the building was 14X16 with two tracks, you could store one car behind the other and everything would be on the rails.  The only problem with this arrangement is when the car you need is behind another car and a double move is required.  The 2 door handcar house would allow storing 4 cars or the spare set of trucks under cover.  It wouldn't be prototypical but we could make it look good.  A higher roof pitch would allow space for storing parts or supplies, like oil for the air car, on shelves above the cars.

Wayne Laepple replied:

If the drawings of the Head Tide section house on page 90 of Volume I of "Narrow gauge in the Sheepscot Valley" are accurate, the building is 10 x 16 feet. The building at Whitefield seems to be about the same size, but is configured differently. Do any drawings exist of that style? Either one would be able to house two handcars and two velocipedes. A leanto could be attached to one side to shelter the pushcars. I'm not certain the compressor car and fire car could be swung on the lightweight turntable, however. It's basically a wooden "H" with strap steel on the wheel bearing surface and not meant for heavy-duty use.

Sections houses often featured a bench across the back or along one side, where the trackemen could repair their tools. Tools were stored in racks or stacked neatly in the corners. Since we would have a tool house just across the tracks, perhaps only rarely used items should be stored in the section house. Let's try to keep both places neat and uncluttered!

James Patten replied:

We believe that the Head Tide section house still exists.  Just to the north of the Horse People's house (the cape at the corner of 218 and the road into Head Tide) is a house with two outbuildings, one or both of which might possibly be original railroad buildings.

Incidentally, this house (and property) are for sale.

Wayne Laepple replied:

Sounds like it's time for some industrial archeology disguised as a house-buying trip!

Joe Fox replied:

If you guys give me all of the materials that you would like to use, such as the size of the wood, and any type of material, the size of the building, and I can give you guys the ruff estimating figure. Talk to you later.

Joe

Stephen Hussar replied:

Sounds like it's time for some industrial archeology disguised as a house-buying trip!

This is a very small house in need of some serious TLC. I believe the asking price is around $100K...

And speaking of extant railroad buildings, while driving up to Albion we noticed that all the old structures along the ROW in Whitefield have either fallen down or been bulldozed. One of these was rumored to have been used by the WW&F as a machine shop.

Wayne Laepple replied:

Steve H. told me earlier today he'd try to get a couple of photos of the alleged Head Tide section house this weekend. Wouldn't it be cool to retreive it after all these years and put it back in service, albeit at Sheepscot? (At least for now.....)

Allan Fisher replied:

It is the bigger of the two shanties at the Gray House, and is no larger that 10 X 14 if that.

I have been inside , and I doubt any of the original wood is still inm the building as it was rebuilt about thjrity years ago and also 5 years ago.

Stephen Hussar replied:

I believe a small amount of ROW is included in the parcel. And the roadbed is right behind the house.  

Josh Botting replied:

We looked at the depressing little house last year about this time.  The house is terribly small with a very low cealing, and is very over priced.  The agent claimed that the small building was built as a temp home for the people while building the house.  But I don't know, it looks oldish, but you never know.  30 yrs ago is about when the house was built.  The property line is to the center of the ROW.  There was however little land associated with it, and whats there is rubish filled.

BM1455 replied:

The overall size of the original sectionhouse was 10 X 16 or there abouts so Alan's guess is very close.  When rebuilt they probably just re-used the sills and floor.  (Perhaps the beams as well?)

Perhaps we could get a member interested in this lot but as previously mentioned, the house needs a lot of TLC.  We tried last year but to no avail.  One issue is that the site may also be on the location, or close to where the original station was, which would rais other issues about keeping the house there.  The asking price is currently way too high....dreamland price.  If this lot could be had more reasonably it would be a good aquisition for the organization's long term success as it could provide a good end point or terminal location.
EL

Wayne Laepple replied:

So are you guys saying, Josh and E., that the section house remains don't resemble the original building any more? If so, I guess this thread ends and we can move on to a discussion of building a replica of Head Tide or some other section house.

Mike Fox replied:

Well going by that building is out then if has been extensively remodeled. So starting back with the approx 10X16 figures for the head tide section house, it does not seem big enough for what everyone wants to put in it.  How big would it need to become to be useful to us? I think a 14X20 built to look like the original accept with 2 tracks should give room enough for about 4 items. Maybe more. I think it is agreed the ideal place for it is just north of the water tower. Plenty of room once the tank is installed on the water tower. Any thoughts??
Mike

BM1455 replied:

I actually like the idea of just sticking to a replica of the Head Tide building for now.  First of all, we are starting to have the yard area become a urban planning zone with all of the proposed construction that people are talking about.  One of the things visitors/ railfans always say about us is that they like our museum because we are not just "collecting" buildings and moving them to our headquarters area, a la Sheepscot.  Another issue is that if we make a replica, we could someday move it to the original location if we can get there.  (I think that if we realy want to, we could get there)  Finaly, I have been involved in the veloceped project for a long time.  I have heard of a/the hand car project for almost as long, and the same goes for the railcar.  None of these things has moved along very quickly to say the least so why get building large structures that will change the yard area drasticly for things we don't know we will even see for years?  The veloceped was made for us in the mid 1990's and it still is not done.  (10 years of no progress beond what the guy who generously made it for us back then was able to do himself)  Vern has made one handcar and it is great but when will the other be built?
This is not intended as any slam on any one who is involved in these projuects.  It is just to point out that there is a huge laps in time between when these klinds of projects get mentioned, and when they actully get done.  By the time they are a reality there may be better places to but one or two of these things besides Sheepscot.  (How about a top of the mountain handcar/ section house, or some other place like the real railroad would have done instead of making a small city at Sheepscot.)
EL

Wayne Laepple replied:

I'm all for a replica of the Head Tide section house, which was 11 x 16, according to Stewart, who found that information on the ICC valuation report. If it is located north of the water tank on the east side of the main track, it can house the handcar and the two velocipedes, as well as some of the tools currently kept in the tool house. I envision it as a place to keep items not used on a regular basis, such as the insta-tracks and the rail bender and some of the track jacks. On operating days, the doors could be opened and the handcar rolled part way out for viewing by passengers. And in the future, it could be loaded on a flatcar and taken back to Head Tide! Personally, I wouldn't be in favor of putting a "working" section house at Alna Center or Top of the Mountain for fear that unauthorized visitors would break in or set the place on fire or shoot it full of holes.

Josh Botting replied:

My recolection of the "section house" was that there was a hodgepodge of floor, sitting directly on the ground, not necessarily makeing it to the walls.  From inside it was clear that the walls were supported by a random slection of stones, the lumber didn't look particularly old, however I was only there for a few mins.  There was definatly a new and old section of the building.....

Stewart Rhine replied:

I still like the idea of a 14X20 two door, two track section house.  It would be a scaled down version of the SR&RL's Phillips freight house with the doors at each corner of the front.  The doors would slide towards the center so both could be open at the same time.  Each end would have a window for light.  Shelves would be built in the back and over the car storage area.  If the flooring was 2X6 or 2X10 hard wood, cars could be placed anywhere inside the building.    Roll the cars up the jigger track and into the building then position them on their flanges.  Plank over the junction of the jigger tracks and East rail of the mainline for easier turning of the cars.  This would give us a good building for most of our smaller cars.  As I said before, why place a 5 foot high car in a building like our engine house.  It's a waste of space.

I agree with Wayne.  Any building up the line that looks like it holds tools or equipment will get broken into - or worse.

BM1455 replied:

This idea was posted twice by people and has some merit but...

"I agree with Wayne. Any building up the line that looks like it holds tools or equipment will get broken into - or worse"

....have we had any trouble at Alna Ctr even with a publicly accessible road into it?  None that I'm aware of.  The top of the mountain is on private property so I doubt we would have much trouble there.  It is also a long hike for vandels who usualy are quite lazy.  There are other locations available like perhaps at the proposed siding near cockeye curve.  This would be a very safe place for a tool house once we have the freindly neighbors we think we will soon have.
EL

Stewart Rhine replied:

Hall's would be a good place for a WW&F style 11X16 section house - especially if we build the siding.  Once we have more than one handcar one could be stored there.  One handcar should always be kept at Sheepscot.

I am not opposed to seeing a section house at Alna Center or on the TOM siding.  I think it would be useful and look great.   The Top of the Mountain area is remote and would probably be safe but I wouldn't put anything in there that is valuable or can't be easily replaced.

Mike Fox replied:

The only problem I can forsee about putting a handcar in a section house outside of Sheepscot is this. If someone should break in and get the handcar out on the line and no one know about it until it's too late. We don't run fast enough to turn it into splinters but I bet the paint could get scratched if left on the main in a poor spot.
Mike

Wayne Laepple replied:

As inventive a bunch as we seem to be, I'll bet we can (a) come up with a way to secure a handcar so it can't be removed from the building without knowing the secret password, and/or (b) figure out some way to lock the mechanism so that even if it is removed from the section house and put on the track, it won't move!

Mike Fox replied:

Wayne,
I thought of that after I posted. Like BM1455 said, Top of the Mountain would be a good spot for a second section house. Pattern that one after the one that was located by the Iron Bridge in Whitefield. And the one in Sheepscot should resemble an enlarged version of the Head Tide section house. The average person will not notice that it is 3 or 4 feet larger than the original.
Mike

Mike Fox replied:

With the nice photos posted under the Motor Pool topic, I figured it was time for some more ideas on storage of these little for wheelers. Leon has put many countless hours into that car. And it looks great. I would like to see it kept that way. As well as the hand car. Vern and others did a wonderfull job with that. We should be able to have a building to put them in. To protect them from all things, us.
I don't know how many times I would walk through the shop last year and see the handcar being used for a table or a bench. Hopefully not a workbench but stuff was set on it. I figure if we can get it in it's own building, it will look great for a lot longer period. I would hate to see Leons car in the shop with something leaned up against it.
And I'm not saying this is something that needs to be built this year but we should get the ball rolling so maybe this fall we could get started. Get the floor done before frost sets in in good shape and build it over the winter. Thoughts???
Mike

Wayne Laepple replied:

If a replica of the Whitefield section house was constructed, it would provide storage space for the handcar and velocipede, and in the winter, the fire car and possibly the air compressor car could be housed there as well. That would free up space in the shop for the Model T railcar. When the roundhouse is built, the Model T could be kept there. Or a small shed for it could be placed on a radial track off the turntable.

Stewart Rhine replied:

Wayne has a good point.  As most everyone knows the discussion has been towards building a new handcar shed / section house when the water tank is complete.  That means that the new handcar shed could be built this Fall.  It would go just North of and on the same side as the water tank.  There are plans (somewhat rough) for a replica of the Whitefield section house and these will be presented to the Board this year.  If the Board agrees with the plan as proposed, the shed will be built.  The question is when.  Part of the "if" in this project is funding.  Ira has already said he will persue the NRHS Grant if he is appointed by the Board.  There aren't many projects that $5,000 would take from start to finish but the car shed is one.  It will be a big advantage to have the shed to house the handcar and velocipede, and the fire car, air car in the Winter.  As I have said before, you don't store a 5 foot tall car in an 18 foot stall if you can avoid it

Mike Fox replied:

I talked with Zack today and he feels the same way. Whitefield seems to be what he likes. A single door structure for the hand car and Velocopede when they are done. I like the looks of the Head Tide sectionhouse myself and I think it would work good for this pupose but that is my own opinion. Either way, this would be a welcomed addition to our storage options.
Mike

Stewart Rhine replied:

Mike, I like the head Tide building too but the Whitefield shed is a better fit for Sheepscot.   The Head Tide shed would work well at TOM or at the Head Tide end of the line.  I think it will be built too, just not sure where or when.

Mike Fox replied:

Stewart,
The reason I like it is because the of the roof. I like to be able to walk into a building without the rain dripping on your head from the eaves. I believe both buildings are the same size though the door at headtide looks taller. But after looking at both buildings and knowing what is desired, Whitefield will give us more options.
Mike

Stephen Hussar replied:

There is absolutely a great need to have more indoor storage space, especially for the handcar, firecar, and compressor car, but isn't the view looking north getting crowded? Could the current section house be moved to a spot further up the ROW (like TOM)? And this reproduction Whitefield building take its place in the yard? (across from the water tank) Not that this would be all that aesthetically offensive , but I'm just curious what everyone thinks...

Mike Fox replied:

Steve,
The way Zack was talking yesterday, I am under the impression you won't be able to see it from Sheepscot. It will be North of the water tower and I think the water tower will hide it pretty well.
Mike

Wayne Laepple replied:

Having seen a sketch plan of the site, Mike is correct. The new tool house would be out of the line of sight from Sheepscot, set back from the track and hidden from the south behind the base of the water tank. In my opinion, it would be nice to someday relocate the Sheepscot section house across the track to a position just north of the new building.

Joe Fox replied:

In my opinion, I think that the section house should stay where it is, because that is near the location it was originally.

Joe

Stephen Hussar replied:

In my opinion, I think that the section house should stay where it is, because that is near the location it was originally.
Joe

Very good point -- I'm sold!  

Stewart Rhine replied:

Joe has the right idea.  I see this way - the current tool house is our only original WW&F  structure.  It should stay where it is for a number of reasons.  First, it was originally at Sheepscot.  Also, it is safer in the yard than out along the line.

The new handcar shed / section house will fit well into the location just North of the water tank.  As Wayne said, you won't be able to see it from  the yard because of the water tank.  It was common practice to pair buildings on the WW&F.  The original Wiscasset yard had a number of job-related buildings next to each other.  We are recreating the same thing at Sheepscot.  Of course the car shed can be moved at some point in the future if that becomes necesary.

As to comparing the Head Tide and Whitefield section houses.  They were about the same size but Head tide had the short side to the tracks while Whitefield had the long side to the tracks.  The Whitefield structure fits better with the available space next to the water tank.  Mike has a point about getting wet.  Maybe we can have a small tin rain gutter over the door.

Wayne Laepple replied:

While the Head Tide and Whitefield section houses were about the same size, the Whitefield building offers more usable floor space. The Head Tide building had double doors that hinged inward, reducing the floor space available. The sliding door takes up no floor space when opened.

As was mentioned somewhere above, perhaps some day we can build a replica of the Head Tide building and situate it at Halls, Top of the Mountain or at Route 218.

[Stephen Piwowarski]

Hi Everyone,

This past week I spent some time studying the photo of the Whitefield Section House in Two Feet to Tidewater. Based on that image I came up with dimensions of 13x17. After thinking about it 12x16 would certainly be more straightforward to build. It would be great to be as faithful to the original structure as possible. Stewart, does the ICC valuation report mention any dimensions for Whitefield?

Thanks,
Steve

[Stewart "Start" Rhine]

Hi Steve,

The ICC valuation missed the section house so there's no data in the survey.  A few years ago Zack scaled the structure using the shingle sizes as a guide. He figured the dimensions including the height.  Your 12X16' sounds right.  There were some rough plans and a lumber cut sheet made by Zack back then.  There was also a Whitefield Section House thread on here (or was it on the previous forum?) so there should be more information.  Dave B. and Stephen H. were in on the plans and may have some info for you.  I'll look through my old notes as I thought I had a copy of Zack's info.

Start

[Dave Buczkowski]

Hi steve;
I went back to 2010 in my emails and found this materials list sent to me by Wayne. In his email he noted that Stewart had prepared drawings for a 12 X 16 building.

Materials list for Whitefield section house      4-21-2010

4 -- 6x6x16 sills
4 --  4x4x8 corner posts
70 -- 2x4x8 walls studs and roof joists
40 -- 1x12x16 wall and roof sheathing
2 -- 30 x 36 6 over 6 windows
192 sq. ft. -- 2-inch hardwood tongue and groove flooring
559 sq. ft. -- roll roofing for walls and roof
559 sq. ft. -- cedar shingles for walls and roof
12 ft. -- galvanized door track
3 -- door rollers
45 sq. ft. -- ¾-inch tongue and groove for door
16 ft. -- aluminum ridge vent

Keep in mind that there is a Whitefield Section House Fund with money already in it. Presumably James has those numbers.
Dave

[Ed Lecuyer]

[Mod Note]
I found and combined the original Whitefield Section House thread. I'm glad to see that this idea is being re-visited.

[Stewart "Start" Rhine]

Although the big push, building wise in 2015 will be the car storage building, I think a small building for our 4 wheel cars is still needed. Dave, thanks for the materials list, it's a big help!  I have not found any drawings for the Whitefield SH and they may have been lost when I moved.  If they don't turn up I'm sure Steve P., Steve Z. and Zack can figure the framing, etc. fairly easily.  The biggest change I see is that there are now more options where to put the structure.  When the discussion began, everyone thought the building should be on the mainline near the water tank.  Now the upper yard spur gives us another spot (between the two switches) where the shed can go.  The BoD can decide on a location and the word can go out that the WSH project may happen this year.  Mention of it in the newsletter, on the forum  and on fb may bring in a few more $$ for the project.

2015 is gonna be a great year for the WW&F!

Start     

[Dave Buczkowski]

Stewart;
I agree it will be a good year for the WW&F!. The reason the WSH has come to the fore is the generosity of Stephen P and Annie. They are planning the building of the WSH as part of their wedding celebration. I'll leave it to them to add more about their plans.
Dave

[Mike Fox]

The best location would be on the West side between the first and second switches, set back from the nearest rail by atleast 10 feet to help with visibility. If a location is determined, we can get the ground prepped before hand to aid in constructing this important and long desired building.

[Stewart "Start" Rhine]

Hi Dave,

I was aware of the reason the WSH is back in the news.  I didn't mention it because I didn't know if Steve and Annie wanted it broadcast yet.  Since that ship has sailed here's more news: 

I just found the 4 pages of WSH plans that were drawn 8 years ago.  There's a site plan, floor plan, front elevation and end elevation.  The plans call for a 12X16' structure that has wall headers at 7.5'.  It rests on 4 6X6" pt sills and has 4X4" corner posts.  There is a 6' rolling door.  The roof has a 2' pitch.  We don't know the orientation of the roof rafters so the head room may be a bit more than 7.5' if there's no horizontal beams.  There is a 3X2.5' window in each end and the entire building is covered in cedar shingles.  The shingles will be the most expensive part of the job.

Start

[Wayne Laepple]

It's about time. I drew the original plan and material list for the Whitefield section house several years ago, and I made the first donation to that project. I'll be happy to see it built wherever it winds up.

[Stephen Piwowarski]

Hi Guys:

Thanks for all of the information provided so far! As Dave and Stewart pointed out Annie and I are building WSH as part of our wedding picnic the weekend of June 20 and 21 2015. If you are interested in coming to help build the section house consider yourself invited! We're both looking forward to the wedding and are excited to bring people together doing things they love. We'll leave it to the board to decide where to put the building, but to give a some sense of a timeline, I'd like to have the ground leveled (wherever it is going) and the stringers and floor built and in place in advance of the wedding. I'd also like to have the walls framed out and sheathed and the sliding door built. On Saturday we will focus on the following: Raising the walls, installing the door and windows, constructing the roof, and roofing and siding the building.

The link below has some photos of Whitefield Iron Bridge and the section house, some which I hadn't seen before.  There are also photos from the WW&F at other locations in Whitefield on this site.
http://www.mainething.com/ww&f/Whitefield%20Bridge/index.htm

See you there!
Steve and Annie

[Ira Schreiber]

Your moderator, Ed, and I worked on grant proposals back then to fund the project.
Unfortunately we were unsuccessful.
This is a wonderful opportunity to see the WSH come to fruition.
My congratulations.

Ira

[James Patten]

Someone asked, above, how much was in the WSH fund.  The answer is $4500.

[Dave Crow]

Mike,

When you say "west side, between the first and second switches," are you referring to a location off of the North Yard lead, or on the west side of the mainline, between the North Yard switch and the "south" yard switch?

Dave Crow

[Fred Morse]

Is the building going to be made out of rough lumber or planed lumber?  I understood it was to be rough lumber, like the original. There's going to be a lot of work on the car shed this coming year, so it may take a special group to do the pre-fab of the section house.