Author Topic: WW&F No. 9 - Official Work Thread  (Read 197513 times)

Stewart "Start" Rhine

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Re: WW&F No. 9 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2009, 03:00:50 AM »
Eric,  You made my point.  That's why some railroads used town water when it was available.  They would have a water crane connected to the town water supply.  Clean (no minerals) water that is good to drink is also good for boilers.

Dwight Winkley

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Re: WW&F No. 9 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2009, 12:01:11 AM »
Deep well water that you can drink is used at WW&F.

Jock Ellis

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Re: WW&F No. 9 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2009, 04:02:31 PM »
Gordon,
Were those improvements to the driver pedestal something they didn't know about in the 19th century when these engines were built? Or were they something thrifty Maine master mechanics omitted?
Also, I noticed in one of the pictures that someone was wearing a long sleeve shirt while using a lathe. Down here in Hotlanta, GA, my machine tools teacher warned us against such a practice and an A machinist at work told me of a machinist at his church who had a mangled arm from wearing a long sleeve shirt that got caught. I know that it is a tad colder in Maine, but bad safety practices are bad safety practices wherever they are used. Please excuse me for preaching, but I'm on our machine shop's EHS safety committee and get a little paranoid. We were one of only six factories worldwide in GE Energy that had no OSHA recordables last year.
Jock Ellis
Jock Ellis

Gordon Cook

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Re: WW&F No. 9 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2009, 01:03:04 AM »
The problems with the front right driver frame were likely because of the way that #9 and similar Portland Forneys were designed from the get go. That is, the load of the train passed through the boiler to the cylinder saddle to the frame. This put a lot of stress on the entire boiler/smokebox/cylinder saddle/frame intersection. Add in the forces from the engine's movement over the track, and the piston thrust which tries to stretch the frame, and the result would appear to be that the two 3/4" bolts holding the frame parts together weren't sufficient and failed to keep things from working, or moving relative to each other in service.
My understanding is that this arrangement worked well enough on the smaller Forneys, but as the size moved up, problems surfaced, and the frames were designed to pass around the firebox so that the frame bore the train's load. We're implementing that design on #9's frame in this rebuild.
It looks like on the left side the lower frame member may have been replaced because the part that the bolts pass through is thicker than the right side piece and the joint was still tight. On the engineer's side, when we disassembled things the two bolts which held the lower frame member to the main frame were clearly worn. The holes through the front of the pedestal had been repaired with a threaded plug which was then re-drilled to the correct hole size for the two bolts, and there was also a 'U' shaped clamp which attempted to hold the lower piece up tight against the main frame.
We would like to replace the entire lower frame member, which is essentially a long 'T' shaped piece of 2" X 2" wrought iron. However, the long bolts which hold it and the main frame together with the cylinders are thoroughly rusted in place, and we fear removing them might damage the cylinder casting.
I don't know why the old mechanics didn't try a longer binder to catch that front frame piece. It seems to be an easy way of reinforcing the joint in the most effective direction, which is the direction of the piston thrust when it tries to stretch the frame. Otherwise we are trying to reduce the stress on the two bolts and increase the stiffness of the joint. There will be a plate on either side all bolted through with dry-fit bolts.
Here is a CAD drawing that shows this part of the main frame in grey, and the lower frame member in light green. The new binder and the reinforcing plates are in red. The cylinders are to your right. The bolts aren't shown but I hope you can get the gist of what I'm trying to describe.
.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 08:22:01 PM by Gordon Cook »
Gawdon

Nyle Buxton

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Re: WW&F No. 9 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2009, 03:13:17 AM »
It appears that things are coming together quite nicely. The boiler is almost done and the repair to fix the flexing problem with the frame is well underway. So what other work needs to be done to #9 to get it back on the track and FRA compliant?
  From what I've been reading the WW&F is treating the railroad as a "restoration" , hence all work on the locomotives, cars, structures is done to replicate the work as though it were being performed in the 20's. I'm under the assumption that if a part was made as a casting or forging  in the 20's, the news ones are to be made the same way. To what extreme are you carrying this through? Does it apply more to parts that are easily visible, such as drive wheels and truck sideframes or does it pertain to everything? and how will this bear on the construction of #11?
   Just like the locomotives built in the 1920's used newer advanced methods of machining and production compared to those of 1880, today the industry incorporates CNC equipment to produce many parts that were once  cast or forged. Seeing as #11 will be the newest steamer (A 2010 production of a late 20's locomotive)will any of these newer methods be applied to it's production?

Jason M Lamontagne

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Re: WW&F No. 9 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2009, 11:12:28 PM »
We have tried to be very careful with philosophy, all the while maintaining a level of practicality. 

On No. 9- this shows with a boiler with a shell that is all butt-welded, but which has riveted mud and door rings, riveted braces, threaded and headed stays- all of which is certainly not the norm nowadays.  Incidentally- the contract was let out with many of these items being the modern standard- welded stays and braces, for exampe-- Boothbay should get due credit for offering these old-fashioned extra niceties without price change- as the amount of extra work wasn't completely outrageous and they were interested in helping our historical efforts.

It also shows on No 9 with the cast steel frame extension piece- the theory was not only the technology available at the time, but the general approach that we believe Portland Company would have taken, based on their locomotives built after No 9 (namely- Bridgton & Saco River No. 5).

We are doing welded repairs to No 9- in fact they are replacing rather mediocre gas-welded repairs that existed from Sandy River days.

On No. 11- a few of us have been carefully developing our project philosophy- to ensure that we don't approach various parts of the project arbitrarily.  We've got time- so we're trying to do this right.  That starts with a "project mission statement," and a project plan which follows it, that will define how decisions are made.  This document is underway- when the time is right, it'll be released as a whole.

No 11 will come in due time--  for now we are whole heartedly focused on No 9.

see ya
Jason

 

Nyle Buxton

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Re: WW&F No. 9 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2009, 01:22:19 AM »
 Jason,

  Thanks for the quick reply. Yes Boothbay has done an awsome job on the boiler, taking the extra steps of riveting just adds to the finished product.
  So what's next on #9 after the frame repair?

  On a side note...   Currently I am building a Mikado in 1-1/2 scale but have found that it is not quite as large a scale as would like. I have been toying around with building in 15" or 16" guage but there are few places near Long Island to run something this size. Then I happened upon WW&F and several of the other Maine 2 footers that are being restored and think 24" would be just right....not to mention that your restoring a once working railroad, a bit of history, rather than an imaginary railroad built to go around in circles. Being on Long Island it's a bit of a haul to come up there and help with #9 but if I can be of assistance in it's restoration from down here on the Island I'd gladly give you some of my time. BTW I'm a machinist and metal fabricator by trade.

 NYLE

Steve Zuppa

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Re: WW&F No. 9 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2009, 09:37:08 AM »
Nyle,
There are many ways to help out the museum from a distance. The most obvious, of course, is to send money. If you're not already a museum member, now's a great time to join. Dues are $30. a year or a lifetime membership for $300. Contact info at wwfry.org. Although the forum is the most immediate way to keep up with museum progress, membership does avail you of a nice eight page glossy bi-monthly newsletter, as well.
Should a trip north from Long Island be in the cards, we have two big trackwork weekends a year. One's in late April and the other is Columbus Day weekend. In addition to these, there's something going on pretty much every Saturday year round. If you come, introduce yourself.
Jason's our Master Mechanic and as such, he would know best if it's practical to take advantage of your talents at your location.
Welcome aboard.
Steve

Jason M Lamontagne

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Re: WW&F No. 9 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2009, 12:38:17 AM »
Hi Niles,

After the frame assembly- we fill focus on cylinder boring and sleeving.  There are some other parts that we'll work on con-currently.

Steve is right on with his thoughts- there are a lot of great ways to get involved. 

Working on some home machine projects could work well- I'd encourage you to come for a visit to get a little personal orientation, and we could discuss specifics there. 

Thanks for your interest- I'd love to find a way to make it work.

see ya
Jason


Ron Ginger

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Re: WW&F No. 9 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2009, 08:58:01 PM »
About 3:00 today the inspection was complete and the new boiler for #9 received its 'S' stamp.

The hydro test was completed in just an hour or so, but the paper work verification took another 4 or 5 hours.

It was a great pleasure to shake the hands of Brian and Jason in congratulations of a fantastic effort. These two fellows have done not only an amazing bit of construction, but have mastered a major paper work and record keeping activity.

Here Tim, the ASME inspector, watches Brian apply the stamp to the backhead

Then Jason abd Brian checked out the stamp.

And finally a close up of the new nameplate and stamp.


Bill Reidy

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Re: WW&F No. 9 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2009, 11:06:51 PM »
A great day for Boothbay and our Museum!  Congratulations to Brian and Jason for this great achievement!

- Bill
Ack.

Glenn Christensen

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Re: WW&F No. 9 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #41 on: May 20, 2009, 12:56:21 AM »
Congratulations Guys!!!

Serial #1, you don't see many of those!


Best Regards,
Glenn

Bernie Perch

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Re: WW&F No. 9 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #42 on: May 20, 2009, 02:36:59 AM »
Congratulations Jason and Brian and everyone who helped with this boiler.  I know how proud you guys must feel on such a milestone accomplishment.  I hope that this is the first of many boilers and complete locomotives which will come out of this shop.  I had a walking on air experience this weekend, so I know how you guys feel.

Bernie

Dave Buczkowski

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Re: WW&F No. 9 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2009, 01:27:43 PM »
This is exciting news! Will the number 2 Boothbay Railway boiler be our #11?
Dave

Ron Ginger

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Re: WW&F No. 9 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2009, 04:10:51 PM »
No, Serial Number 2 was already used for a major rebuild boiler for Boothbays #7.

Id like to see the next boiler be for the fire engine we have at BRV. Its fully restored, ready to run, except for a boiler. If some kind benefactor ever drops some money on us I think that would be a neat project.

But a boiler for a #11 would also be a great project. If we can just drag Jason a little way into the 20th century so it can be more welded and less riveted and threaded. :-)