Author Topic: FRA Regulations (Pilot, Grade Crossing, Brakes, etc.)  (Read 30372 times)

Allan Fisher

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Re: FRA Regulations (Pilot, Grade Crossing, Brakes, etc.)
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2012, 12:23:10 PM »
No waiver needed. If the locomotive has one, it must be as per regulations.

Delaware & Hudson operated for years with no deadman feature on locomotives at speeds up to 60mph. Again, regulations only said that if engine was equipped, it must be working.

Sometimes, field FRA personnel like to expand rules to what they believe they say. But interpretations of rules is done by legal department of FRA in Washington.
Allan Fisher

Cliff Olson

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Re: FRA Regulations (Pilot, Grade Crossing, Brakes, etc.)
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2012, 04:28:50 PM »
Allen, are you saying that a pilot is not required on Monson #3 or #4, regardless of where it operates??
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 04:30:57 PM by Cliff Olson »

Keith Taylor

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Re: FRA Regulations (Pilot, Grade Crossing, Brakes, etc.)
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2012, 04:34:33 PM »
Lots of locomotives have no pilots.
Attached is a photo of me taken many years ago (1991) at Three Bridges, NJ. Notice the loco has no pilot. Just a flat steel plate to keep junk from wedging under the locomotive.

Keith

Wayne Laepple

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Re: FRA Regulations (Pilot, Grade Crossing, Brakes, etc.)
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2012, 06:08:54 PM »
Part 229 says locomotives must have an end plate, pilot or plow. Part 230 says only that a steam locomotive must have a pilot, period. Neither Part defines the term "pilot." I've looked at photos of Monson No. 3, and what it has sure looks like it will meet the criteria. 

Cliff Olson

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Re: FRA Regulations (Pilot, Grade Crossing, Brakes, etc.)
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2012, 11:08:30 AM »
The Part 229 provision that Wayne mentions is 49 CFR sec. 229.123.

Keith Taylor

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Re: FRA Regulations (Pilot, Grade Crossing, Brakes, etc.)
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2012, 11:18:18 AM »
Part 229 says locomotives must have an end plate, pilot or plow. Part 230 says only that a steam locomotive must have a pilot, period. Neither Part defines the term "pilot." I've looked at photos of Monson No. 3, and what it has sure looks like it will meet the criteria.  
Here is CFR 49 Part 230:
Title 49: Transportation
PART 230—STEAM LOCOMOTIVE INSPECTION AND MAINTENANCE STANDARDS
Subpart C—Steam Locomotives and Tenders
Trucks, Frames and Equalizing System


§ 230.110   Pilots.
(a) General provisions. Pilots shall be securely attached, properly braced, and maintained in a safe and suitable condition for service.

(b) Minimum and maximum clearance. The minimum clearance of pilot above the rail shall be 3 inches and the maximum clearance shall be 6 inches measured on tangent level track.


The way I read this is that pilots must be securely attached etc. but nowhere do I see a requirement that the locomotive must be equipped with one.

Keith
P.S. Here is a link to a photo of the Baldwin Locomotive Works plant switcher at Steamtown. http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0106/blw26.jpg
Steamtown certainly comes under FRA pervue and the 26 not only has no pilot...it has footboards!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 01:00:26 PM by Keith Taylor »

Brett Goertemoeller

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Re: FRA Regulations (Pilot, Grade Crossing, Brakes, etc.)
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2012, 12:04:36 PM »
§ 229.123 Pilots, snowplows, end plates.
After January 1, 1981, each lead locomotive
shall be equipped with an end
plate that extends across both rails, a
pilot, or a snowplow. The minimum
clearance above the rail of the pilot,
snowplow or end plate shall be 3 inches,
and the maximum clearance 6 inches


This says that it has to have one of the three.  Remember, in dealing with the CFR 49, there is more than just the Part 230 that pertains to steam locomotives. 
How many train crew men does it take to screw in a light bulb?
None, that the shop crew's job...

What do you call a train man who steps on a live 3rd rail?
A conducter!

Keith Taylor

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Re: FRA Regulations (Pilot, Grade Crossing, Brakes, etc.)
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2012, 12:49:28 PM »
This says that it has to have one of the three.  Remember, in dealing with the CFR 49, there is more than just the Part 230 that pertains to steam locomotives. 
That is not accurate. Here is the "scope" of CFR 49 Part 229 from the regulation. You can see that clearly CFR 49 part 229 covers all locomotives except steam.

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 49, Volume 4]
[Revised as of October 1, 2003]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 49CFR229.1]

[Page 303]
 
                        TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION
 
       CHAPTER II--FEDERAL RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF
                             TRANSPORTATION
 
PART 229--RAILROAD LOCOMOTIVE SAFETY STANDARDS--Table of Contents
 
                           Subpart A--General
 
Sec. 229.1  Scope.


    This part prescribes minimum Federal safety standards for all
locomotives except those propelled by steam power.



Brett Goertemoeller

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Re: FRA Regulations (Pilot, Grade Crossing, Brakes, etc.)
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2012, 01:54:45 PM »
  All right, I invite you to read part 231.15, 231.16, and 231.17.  I have a call into a friend of mine who can put this question to rest once and for all.....He's an FRA Steam inspector, and did the inspection on another locomotive I work on. 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 02:40:20 PM by Ed Lecuyer »
How many train crew men does it take to screw in a light bulb?
None, that the shop crew's job...

What do you call a train man who steps on a live 3rd rail?
A conducter!

Keith Taylor

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Re: FRA Regulations (Pilot, Grade Crossing, Brakes, etc.)
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2012, 03:45:24 PM »
 All right, I invite you to read part 231.15, 231.16, and 231.17.  I have a call into a friend of mine who can put this question to rest once and for all.....He's an FRA Steam inspector, and did the inspection on another locomotive I work on.
Here are those sections.

§ 231.15   Steam locomotives used in road service.
 top
(a) Tender till-steps—(1) Number. Four on tender.

 (2) Dimensions. (i) Bottom tread not less than 8 by 12 inches, metal. (May have wooden treads.)

 (ii) If stirrup steps are used, clear length of tread shall be not less than 10, preferably 12, inches.

 (3) Location. One near each corner of tender on sides.

 (4) Manner of application. Tender sill-steps shall be securely fastened with bolts or rivets.

 (b) Pilot sill-steps—(1) Number. Two.

 (2) Dimensions. Tread not less than 8 inches in width by 10 inches in length, metal. (May have wooden treads.)

 (3) Location. One on or near each end of buffer-beam outside of rail and not more than 16 inches above rail.

 (4) Manner of application. Pilot sill-steps shall be securely fastened with bolts or rivets.

 (c) Pilot-beam handholds—(1) Number. Two.

 (2) Dimensions. Minimum diameter, five-eighths of an inch, wrought iron or steel. Minimum clear length, 14, preferably 16, inches. Minimum clearance, 21/2 inches.

 (3) Location. One on each end of buffer-beam. If uncoupling lever extends across front end of locomotive to within 8 inches of end of buffer-beam, and is seven-eighths of an inch or more in diameter, securely fastened, with a clearance of 21/2 inches, it is a handhold.)

 (4) Manner of application. Pilot-beam handholds shall be securely fastened with bolts or rivets.

 (d) Side handholds—(1) Number. Six.

 (2) Dimensions. Minimum diameter, if horizontal, five-eighths of an inch; if vertical, seven-eighths of an inch, wrought iron or steel. Horizontal, minimum clear length, 16 inches. Vertical, clear length equal to approximate height of tank. Minimum clearance, 2, preferably 21/2, inches.

 (3) Location. (i) Horizontal or vertical. If vertical, one on each side of tender within 6 inches of rear or on corner; if horizontal, same as specified for “Box and other house cars” (see §231.1(h)(3)).

 (ii) One on each side of tender near gangway; 1 on each side of locomotive at gangway; applied vertically.

 (4) Manner of application. Side handholds shall be securely fastened with not less than 1/2-inch bolts or rivets.

 (e) Rear-end handholds—(1) Number. Two.

 (2) Dimensions. Minimum diameter, five-eighths of an inch, wrought iron or steel. Minimum clear length, 14 inches. Minimum clearance, 2, preferably 21/2, inches.

 (3) Location. Horizontal, one near each side of rear end of tender on face of end sill. Clearance of outer end of handhold shall be not more than 16 inches from side of tender.

 (4) Manner of application. Rear-end handholds shall be securely fastened with not less than 1/2-inch bolts or rivets.

 (f) Uncoupling levers—(1) Number. Two double levers, operative from either side.

 (2) Dimensions. Rear-end levers shall extend across end of tender with handles not more than 12, preferably 9, inches from side of tender with a guard bent on handle to give not less than 2 inches clearance around handle.

 (3) Location. One on rear end of tender and one on front end of locomotive. Handles of front-end leavers shall be not more than 12, preferably 9, inches from ends of buffer-beam, and shall be so constructed as to give a minimum clearance of 2 inches around handle.

 (4) Manner of application. Uncoupling levers shall be securely fastened with bolts or rivets.

 (g) Couplers. Locomotives shall be equipped with automatic couplers at rear of tender and front of locomotive.


§ 231.16   Steam locomotives used in switching service.
 top
(a) Footboards—(1) Number. Two or more.

 (2) Dimensions. (i) Minimum width of tread, 10 inches.

 (ii) Minimum height of back stop, 4 inches above tread.

 (iii) Height from top of rail to top of tread, not more than 12 nor less than 9 inches.

 (iv) If made of wood, minimum thickness of tread shall be 11/2, preferably 2 inches.

 (v) Footboards may be made of material other than wood which provides the same as or a greater degree of safety than wood of 11/2 inches thickness. When made of material other than wood, the tread surface shall be of antiskid design and constructed with sufficient open space to permit the elimination of snow and ice from the tread surface.

 (3) Location. Ends or sides. If on ends, they shall extend not less than 18 inches outside of guage of straight track, and shall be not more than 12 inches shorter than buffer-beam at each end.

 (4) Manner of application. (i) End footboards may be constructed in two sections, provided that practically all space on each side of coupler is filled; each section shall be not less than 3 feet in length.

 (ii) Footboards shall be securely bolted to two 1- by 4-inch metal brackets, provided footboard is not cut or notched at any point.

 (iii) If footboard is cut or notched or in two sections, not less than four 1- by 3-inch metal brackets shall be used, two located on each side of coupler. Each bracket shall be securely bolted to buffer-beam, end sill or tank frame by not less than two 7/8-inch bolts.

 (iv) If side footboards are used, a substantial handhold or rail shall be applied not less than 30 inches nor more than 60 inches above tread or footboard.

 (b) Sill steps—(1) Number. Two or more.

 (2) Dimensions. (i) Lower tread of step shall be not less than 8 by 12 inches, metal. (May have wooden treads.)

 (ii) If stirrup steps are used, clear length of tread shall be not less than 10, preferably 12, inches.

 (3) Location. One or more on each side at gangway secured to locomotive or tender.

 (4) Manner of application. Sill steps shall be securely fastened with bolts or rivets.

 (c) End handholds—(1) Number. Two.

 (2) Dimensions. Minimum diameter, 1 inch, wrought iron or steel. Minimum clearance, 4 inches, except at coupler casting or braces when minimum clearance shall be 2 inches.

 (3) Location. One on pilot, buffer-beam; one on rear end of tender, extending across front end of locomotive and rear end of tender. Ends of handholds shall be not more than 6 inches from ends of buffer-beam or end sill, securely fastened at ends.

 (4) Manner of application. End handholds shall be securely fastened with bolts or rivets.

 (d) Side handholds—(1) Number. Four.

 (2) Dimensions. Minimum diameter, seven-eighths of an inch, wrought iron or steel. Clear length equal to approximate height of tank. Minimum clearance, 2, preferably 21/2 inches.

 (3) Location. Vertical. One on each side of tender near front corner; one on each side of locomotive at gangway.

 (4) Manner of application. Side handholds shall be securely fastened with bolts or rivets.

 (e) Uncoupling levers—(1) Number. Two double levers, operative from either side.

 (2) Dimensions. (i) Handles of front-end levers shall be not more than 12, preferably 9, inches from ends of buffer-beam, and shall be so constructed as to give a minimum clearance of 2 inches around handle.

 (ii) Rear-end levers shall extend across end of tender with handles not more than 12, preferably 9, inches from side of tender, with a guard bent on handle to give not less than 2 inches clearance around handle.

 (3) Location. One on rear end of tender and one on front end of locomotive.

 (f) Handrails and steps for headlights. Switching locomotives with sloping tenders with manhole or headlight located on sloping portion of tender shall be equipped with secure steps and handrail or with platform and handrail leading to such manhole or headlight.

 (g) End-ladder clearance. No part of locomotive or tender except draft rigging, coupler and attachments, safety chains, buffer block, footboard, brake pipe, signal pipe, steam-heat pipe or arms of uncoupling lever shall extend to within 14 inches of a vertical plane passing through the inside face of knuckle when closed with horn of coupler against buffer block or end sill.

 (h) Couplers. Locomotives shall be equipped with automatic couplers at rear of tender and front of locomotive.

§ 231.17   Specifications common to all steam locomotives.
 top
(a) Hand brakes. (1) Hand brakes will not be required on locomotives nor on tenders when attached to locomotives.

 (2) If tenders are detached from locomotives and used in special service, they shall be equipped with efficient hand brakes.

 (b) Running boards—(1) Number. Two.

 (2) Dimensions. Not less than 10 inches wide. If of wood, not less than 11/2 inches in thickness; if of metal, not less than three-sixteenths of an inch, properly supported.

 (3) Location. One on each side of boiler extending from cab to front end near pilot-beam. (Running boards may be in sections. Flat-top steamchests may form section of running board.)

 (4) Manner of application. (i) Running boards shall be securely fastened with bolts, rivets, or studs.

 (ii) Locomotives having Wootten type boilers with cab located on top of boiler more than 12 inches forward from boiler head shall have suitable running boards running from cab to rear of locomotive, with handrailings not less than 20 nor more than 48 inches above outside edge of running boards, securely fastened with bolts, rivets, or studs.

 (c) Handrails—(1) Number. Two or more.

 (2) Dimensions. Not less than 1 inch in diameter, wrought iron or steel.

 (3) Location. One on each side of boiler extending from near cab to near front end of boiler, and extending across front end of boiler, not less than 24 nor more than 66 inches above running board.

 (4) Manner of application. Handrails shall be securely fastened to boiler.

 (d) Tenders of Vanderbilt type. (1) Tenders known as the Vanderbilt type shall be equipped with running boards; one on each side of tender not less than 10 inches in width and one on top of tender not less than 48 inches in width, extending from coal space to rear of tender.

 (2) There shall be a handrail on each side of top running board, extending from coal space to rear of tank, not less than 1 inch in diameter and not less than 20 inches in height above running board from coal space to manhole.

 (3) There shall be a handrail extending from coal space to within 12 inches of rear of tank, attached to each side of tank above side running board not less than 30 nor more than 66 inches above running board.

 (4) There shall be one vertical end handhold on each side of Vanderbilt type of tender, located within 8 inches of rear of tank extending from within 8 inches of top of end sill to within 8 inches of side handrail. Post supporting rear end of side running board, if not more than 2 inches in diameter and properly located, may form section of handhold.

 (5) An additional horizontal end handhold shall be applied on rear end of all Vanderbilt type of tenders which are not equipped with vestibules. Handhold to be located not less than 30 nor more than 66 inches above top of end sill. Clear length of handhold to be not less than 48 inches.

 (6) Ladders shall be applied at forward ends of side running boards.

 (e) Handrails and steps for headlights. (1) Locomotives having headlights which can not be safely and conveniently reached from pilot-beam or steam chests shall be equipped with secure handrails and steps suitable for the use of men in getting to and from such headlights.

 (2) A suitable metal end or side ladder shall be applied to all tanks more than 48 inches in height, measured from the top of end sill, and securely fastened with bolts or rivets.

 (f) Couplers. Locomotives shall be equipped with automatic couplers at rear of tender and front of locomotive.

I may be missing something....but I don't see one word about requiring a pilot. I do see in 231.16 that switching locomotives have regulations for foot boards.

Keith
All of these sections can be read at: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_98/49cfr231_98.html
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 03:59:39 PM by Keith Taylor »

Wayne Laepple

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Re: FRA Regulations (Pilot, Grade Crossing, Brakes, etc.)
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2012, 04:10:50 PM »
Okay, guys, I think the horse is dead.

Ed Lecuyer

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Re: FRA Regulations (Pilot, Grade Crossing, Brakes, etc.)
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2012, 04:25:45 PM »
[Moderators Note]
1. I moved this topic to General Discussion, as it really has morphed into a conversation about FRA rules.

2. For whatever reason, this topic seems to be raising some angst among its participants. I think the reality is that unless someone from MNG wants to disclose their intent, or discussions with the local FRA representative, it's all a moot point.

3. I would imagine that any backdating to #4 is pretty low on the funding list for MNG. After all, there are many more substantial repairs that need to be made - and #7 is still under restoration. Oh, and I think they may be moving....

-Ed
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Cliff Olson

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Re: FRA Regulations (Pilot, Grade Crossing, Brakes, etc.)
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2012, 05:41:22 PM »
I can't imagine that removing the fake cowcatcher would involve any significant expense - - if a pilot is not required for operation under FRA jurisdiction, which is what we have been trying to discern from the FRA regs.

Wayne Laepple

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Re: FRA Regulations (Pilot, Grade Crossing, Brakes, etc.)
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2012, 06:56:22 PM »
Here's photo of Monson No. 3 with its as-built pilot, as well as a photo of a British locomotive with no pilot at all. Notice the difference.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 06:58:32 PM by Wayne Laepple »

John Kokas

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Re: FRA Regulations (Pilot, Grade Crossing, Brakes, etc.)
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2012, 07:37:56 PM »
IMHO there is one way to get this question answered once and for all.  Contact Gary Fairbanks at FRA in Washington, DC.  He's one of the leading authorities on steam at the FRA, has both worked on and licensed engineer on steam.  Been doing it for over 30 years.
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