Author Topic: WW&F No. 11 - Official Work Thread  (Read 202167 times)

Keith Taylor

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Re: Locomotive #11 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #75 on: April 06, 2010, 02:25:34 PM »
AFIK The bearings are going to be brass.  they are lubricated with a purple grease that is sqeazed down from a grease cup over the bearing.  Underneath the bearing is a grease cellar which helps lubricate the axle as well by catching the gease that rolls out of the bearing.  It's essentially the same way the rods get thier grease, with the little cup on top that you turn untill the grease oozes out the side oof the brearing.  At least thats the way #4 works.


No. 10's rods are lubricated with oil, not grease. The rod oilers are replicas of Lunkenheimer cups that have an oil reservoir topped by a hemispherical chamber. As the locomotive moves down the tracks, oil splashes up into the hemisphere and some drops down into a feed tube that supplys the bearings.
Keith
Attached is a picture of the rod oilers when they were being made.

Paul Horky

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Re: Locomotive #11 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #76 on: April 07, 2010, 01:15:18 AM »
A question to Jason. Will the Main frame rails be fabed,cut, or cast. The origianal would have been cast. Now however with modern shop pratices either fabracation or cutting are prefured.

Paul Horky

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Re: Locomotive #11 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #77 on: April 07, 2010, 01:31:45 AM »
Another question to Bernie from the picture it looks like the counter weights are to be detachable additions to the main pattern. Is this correct? Also will you or someone else be making a pattern for the outside counter weight or will these be cut and machined from platte steel?

Bernie Perch

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Re: Locomotive #11 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #78 on: April 07, 2010, 02:24:05 AM »
Paul,

You are correct, the counterweignts will be removable from the patterns.  I mentioned ramming up the main drivers first, because I assume there may be some damage to the counterweights when they are removed.  It is also possible that some filler will have to be removed at the foundry and sanding done before the lead driver centers are cast.  If we were making many castings, then it would be wise to have two separate sets of patterns.

I have the drawings for the cranks and a while ago had some discussion with Jason about them.  It is my intent to make these patterns too, but as I do most of these by hand, I would like to say that I would like to get the driver center patterns done first and then go from there.  The cranks are distinctly different and two separate patterns will be made for them.

Bernie

Jason M Lamontagne

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Re: Locomotive #11 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #79 on: April 07, 2010, 10:38:02 AM »
We're currently planning on waterjet cutting the frames from 3" plate- though it's still some time away.  Crank/counterweights will be cast of steel. 

Jason

Stephen Hussar

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Re: Locomotive #11 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #80 on: August 28, 2010, 12:24:51 PM »
Although he's been just a tad busy with a certain CNJ 0-6-0 restoration in Minersville, PA... Bernie has continued to plug away on the wheel center patterns for the No 11 project. I may be getting ahead of myself, but it's going to be absolutely thrilling sweating tires onto the castings born from these!





« Last Edit: August 28, 2010, 12:30:48 PM by Stephen Hussar »

Bernie Perch

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Re: Locomotive #11 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #81 on: August 28, 2010, 10:34:09 PM »
All,

Thanx Stephen for posting the photos.  I had to put this project on the back burner because I have too many projects going, and the ones that have a certain completion time must be done first.  I am now back to the #11 project and it would be nice if the plain spoked pattern would be done in time for the work weekend.  I was originally planning to make just one pattern with removable counterweights, but decided it was only a little more work just to make two patterns.  I used the various plies of the plain pattern to lay out the counterweighted one and it should take less time.  It would be nice to see all these patterns being used for more than one locomotive.

One project that took mountains of time was the CNJ whistle project.  The plan was to make only two whistle bells.  In the end we cast 11 and I finished ten up to 220 grit finish.  I mirror finished mine.

For anyone interested, we should be putting a fire in CNJ 113's boiler in a month or so.  I have been looking forward to that for a long time (over 10 years).

Bernie


Robert Hale

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Re: Locomotive #11 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #82 on: August 29, 2010, 03:29:16 AM »
Are the patterns adjusted for shrinkage? Just curious as I would think that since they will be machined the measurements don't have to be as precise?

Bernie Perch

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Re: Locomotive #11 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #83 on: August 29, 2010, 10:30:42 AM »
Robert,

Yes, they are adjusted for shrinkage.  Jason and I discussed the outside diameter to allow for shrinkage.  All the surfaces that are to be machined are also thicker.  I tend to leave more metal available for these two circumstances than most patternmakers would.  My philosophy is that it is easy to take metal away from a casting than to add it on.  Since these are not for any production runs where time is a factor, I don't concern myself for how long it takes to machine the parts (the machinist may feel differently and years ago, one reminded me that there was way too much metal to be taken off).

I would note that I am not a commercial patternmaker.  I am "self taught" and learned by trial and error and asking questions at the foundry, the school where I worked and alot of reading.  Also each foundry has its own ideas and I try to adjust to what they want.  I could go on and on about this, but way back in this forum I wrote much about this.

If the #11 project is to be finished in a timely fashion, we are going to need more patternmakers and machinists and, of course, wheelbarrows of money.  This is why the display is in the freight house--to show that we are serious about this project and will really attack it when #9 is finished.


Bernie

Paul Horky

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Re: Locomotive #11 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #84 on: August 29, 2010, 03:24:35 PM »
Bernie
 Since the machineing will most likely be done by Jason if he is ok with the amount of materal that needs to be removed then what is the problem? By the way great looking work!!!!!!!

Robert Hale

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Re: Locomotive #11 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #85 on: August 29, 2010, 05:52:51 PM »
Are the centers pressed on to the axle or keyed? I would love to learn how to make patterns and castings. Has lost-foam casting ever been talked about?

James Patten

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Re: Locomotive #11 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #86 on: August 29, 2010, 08:47:02 PM »
I think we used lost-foam for the casting for #9's new frame piece.  The first place didn't do so great a job.  The second place did better, but unless the place knows what their doing I don't think lost-foam is a great solution.

Mike Fox

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Re: Locomotive #11 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #87 on: August 29, 2010, 09:38:51 PM »
B E A utiful Bernie. Keep up the great work.
Mike
Doing way too much to list...

Bernie Perch

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Re: Locomotive #11 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #88 on: August 29, 2010, 09:49:34 PM »
All,

To answer a few questiions:

I believe the axles will be keyed and pressed on.  I stand corrected on that one.

As for too much metal to machine, that will have to be directed to Jason.  It really isn't really THAT MUCH metal.  The only thing he commented was that he wanted the axle holes cored out on the driver centers to save time.  I did not do that on the leading truck/railcar wheel centers because they were to be machined to two sizes.  I could have probably cored it for the smaller size.  I also ask myself which takes more time--making the core box or drilling and finishing a solid casting.  If favors the coring process as the number of castings increases.

As for learning how to make patterns:  read one of the many books out there, make a simple pattern, get it cast and go from there.  For what we are doing, it is not rocket science.  The pattern that will be a real headache will be for the cylinders if we finally decide to cast them.  We still haven't figured out that one, but that is a ways off.

Bernie

Jason M Lamontagne

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Re: Locomotive #11 - Official Work Thread
« Reply #89 on: August 29, 2010, 10:36:59 PM »
Indeed beautiful work, Bernie.

Bernie is great at communicating the needs of the project well before making things final, and we had solid conversations on shrinkage and machining allowance.  Everything he has pointed out is right on-- if we were making engine block castings for 10,000 model T's, there'd be less machine allowance- but we're designing this pattern for one 4-drivered locomotive, so an extra 1/4" to shave off here and there is well worth making sure the castings will end up being right (after casting flaws, etc).  If they're used for more locomotives- great, I'd love to see that too, but any subsequent project will need to fit around the patterns made for this, the main project.

James is right about lost foam-- the first casting wasn't acceptable.  The second casting was made from a conventional mold packed around a styrofoam pattern- the pattern was removed before the pour.  I wasn't real pleased with this either as it was obvious that the pattern took a beating during the molding as some of the geometry was lost.  I actually think lost foam, with a foundry familiar with proper venting, is better as the geometry would be better maintained.  Bernie's wood patterns do two things that foam doesn't:  it's a great representation of how they did it- we firmly believe that just having a steam locomotive in the end is not good enough, we want a machine that represents the era of the original, as much as we can anyway.  and 2- it's permenant value; these patterns will be available for another project- which hopefully will serve as the excuse for another project someday. 

Bernie has said it right- we are focused on, and need to follow through on No 9- then we're going to tackle this.  One step at a time- great to see Bernie's steps in action!

Jason