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Notice: Work Planning: April.
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1  WW&F Railway Museum Discussion / Work and Events / Re: 2017 Spring Work Weekend on: April 23, 2017, 02:52:09 PM
The latest version of the work weekend track crew plan looks roughly like this:

Thursday: crew 1: run stone to MP 7 lift areas
Friday: crew 1: run stone to Mountain extension
Saturday: crew 1: lift and shovel tamp Mountain extension
Saturday: crew 2: finish running stone to Mountain extension, then finish running stone to MP 7 lift area, then lift and power tamp MP 7
Sunday: crew 1: finish tamping mountain and MP 7, in that order.

Note one crew only both Friday and Sunday.  Saturday two track crews only if sufficient help on hand.

See ya
2  The Original W&Q and WW&F: 1894-1933 / Original Railway / Re: Fred Fogg on: April 21, 2017, 10:30:40 PM
Col. Wildes repeatedly refers to 4' 8-1/2" gauge as "common gauge," not standard gauge. 

I need to start doing that.  The audacity to think that their 4' 8-1/2" is "standard."  As much gall as the "standard railroad of the world" Pennsylvania!

No offense to all you common gauge fans out there...

See ya
3  WW&F Railway Museum Discussion / Work and Events / Re: Boiler plate flanging machine on: April 21, 2017, 10:27:12 PM
Maybe it should have said "smooshing?"

Harold says tolerance for settings is +/- 0.000.  He's got me beat!

See ya
4  The Original W&Q and WW&F: 1894-1933 / Original Railway / Re: Fred Fogg on: April 21, 2017, 09:56:41 PM
The booklet is a response to a request from the city of Augusta to the Henry Ingalls, president of the K&W, to provide a statement on the present (May 1872) prospects of the road as well as the advantage of three foot gauge relative to standard gauge.  The letter from Augusta requests the statement specifically becasue the K&W was seeking the aid of the City of Augusta to complete the road. 

 Henry Ingalls delegated the writing of the response to the K&W's chief engineer, Col. A.W. Wildes. 

Col. Wildes examined a distance of 30-1/2 miles (Wiscasset to Augusta), with cost per mile at $22,073.69 for standard gauge and $17,141.64 for three foot gauge. 

The inquiry from Augusta is a single paragraph, typed letter, addressed to Henry Ingalls.  The response is an honest to goodness book.  It might as well be a prospectus.  It does appear to draw very heavily upon Fleming's Narrow Gauge Railways book.

There is no mention of two foot gauge in the 1872 booklet.

Linda also found an undated promotional booklet for the Wiscasset & Quebec Railroad, which looks to be dated around 1882 based on references in the text.  It is directly touting the prospect of building to Quebec and is plainly a general prospectus.  It is similar- but different- to the 1887 Wiscasset & Quebec Railroad promotional. Booklet- which has been reproduced.  Neither mentions gauge at all, though the 1882 book gives a cost per mile at $12,000, $15,000 or $20,000, depending on location.  Given Col. Wildes estimates from 1872, there's no way the 1882 could have been referencing standard gauge. 

Interesting to note that the 1882 book has some very negative things to say about the Maine Central and Boston and Maine, and their monopolistic ways. 

So, it seems the road was destined to be Narrow Gauge since the start of the narrow gauge movement, though the introduction of two foot gauge to the enterprise has yet to be pinned to a date.

See ya

5  WW&F Railway Museum Discussion / Work and Events / Re: Boiler plate flanging machine on: April 21, 2017, 07:24:40 PM
After roughly describing the layout method, Harold actually performed all the layout work.  Very well executed, and refined as he went along. 

We've found it best to use a die which matches the shell radius for each area.  It's possible to use one with more radius, but aligning the plate for subsequent hits is much harder, due to undesired bend start locations on either side of center from the hit using an incorrect die. 

The nice corners are a 6" shell radius, formed on a die with the same radius.

Harold predicted this detail and made patterns for all of 10's various shell diameters on the flanged plates.

We haven't really experimented yet with using dies that have a close shell radius.  That will determine if we can, for example, use 10's 6" radius firebox corner die on 11's 8" radius firebox corners.

See ya
6  WW&F Railway Museum Discussion / Work and Events / Re: Boiler plate flanging machine on: April 21, 2017, 07:14:35 PM
I'll try; Harold and Eric can chime in with their thoughts to if they wish.

Careful layout is important (somewhat obvious I suppose).  First, the exact shape of the desired flange is drawn on the sheet. In this case, it is traced from the one piece firebox, as the actual firebox shape is a little different than the print.  This final flange shape is drawn as the inside surface of the flange.  Once that's done, the centers of rotation are determined for the curved areas.  We then pick a standard offset from the flange line.  For straight areas, the offset line is parallel.  For curved areas, the standard offset is swung as an arc off the center of rotation.  Points of tangency, centerljnes, and sometimes another bisecting set of lines, are drawn on both the flange edge and the offset line.

The pointer on the flanger anvil is set at the offset distance from the face of the die being used. 

The toggle is brought down to 90 degrees, the anvil brought up to one sheet thickness away from the toggle shoe face, and the backside of the anvil blocked to that location off the anvil stop.  That's 0 location for that operation.  The anvil is then blocked either in by 3", and the plate bent about 20 degrees at each index mark for that operation.  The anvil is then backed off to 0 + 2" and bent to about 45 degrees.  On the easier curves, we then back off to 0 + 1" and bend to about 75 degrees.  On harder bends, adjacent areas must be bent first. 

As expected, some buckling develops on the sharp corners.  Here's the cool part:  the flanger's available 200 tons exerted on the flange simply smushed those bumps flat.  Pretty much like they never existed. 

The flanger never maxed out, but does exert more effort when bending more plate on a curve, against adjacent areas which aren't flanged as much.  Again, expected. 

We're achieving exact knuckle radii and flange locations within 1/32". 

Our indexing method of lining up index prick punches to the pointer, under the plate, is a little tedious, but is a very direct method.  We're considering going to a template and follower system for flanged plates requiring tighter tolerances. 

It's been a lot of fun finally seeing this machine in use.  I've had it in mind since 2006, when we hot formed No 9's flanged boiler plates. 

See ya
7  The Original W&Q and WW&F: 1894-1933 / Original Railway / Re: Fred Fogg on: April 21, 2017, 10:20:47 AM
Linda has just found a W&Q promotional booklet from 1872 (then Kennebec & Wiscasset) in the Wiscasset Library called NARROW GAUGE RAILROADS: THE KENNEBEC & WISCASSET RAILROAD.

It appears that about half its content is directly lifted from Fleming's NARROW GAUGE RAILROADS of the same year.

I've yet to read it word for word, but there is a section titled "The Superiority of the Narrow Gauge."  LOVE IT!!!!

The booklet includes cost estimates for building a road from Wiscasset to Augusta in both standard gauge and three foot gauge.  It does have a section on the Festiniog; ill have to go over it carefully to see if two foot gauge was being considered as early as 1872. 

This detail will lend a hand as to the importance of Fred Fogg coming on the scene, with his two foot background, in 1892.

Bear in mind that 1872 was the bare beginning of the narrow gauge movement, and predates the B&B by 5 years.  In 1872, 3 foot or 3-6 was the most heavily promoted narrow gauge in this country.

Great find by Linda...

See ya
8  WW&F Railway Museum Discussion / Work and Events / Re: Boiler plate flanging machine on: April 20, 2017, 06:28:23 AM
The ASME Code defines a minimum bend radius where the internal stresses from cold bending are acceptable.  It has to do with how much the metal is stretched/ compressed at the extreme surfaces.  Our sheets are all bent at or above that minimum.

See ya
9  WW&F Railway Museum Discussion / Work and Events / Re: Coach 9 Official Work Thread on: April 19, 2017, 06:26:39 PM
Yes and yes- we'd really like to install a water-heater type stove.  While it's clear they were used on the SR&RL, it's not clear whether the WW&F did.

It does appear that coaches 2 and 3 had different stoves, at least at different stages of life.

See ya
10  WW&F Railway Museum Discussion / Work and Events / Re: Coach 9 Official Work Thread on: April 19, 2017, 06:29:52 AM
Hi Bill,

The lower window glass needs to be safety glass; we're moving all window glass to safety glass.

The clerestory windows are particularly special- stamped, colored glass.  I'm certain that will be a special sub-project to find a supplier or reproduction method.

We'd discussed the possibility of your making windows and doors for coach 9; our initial thought was frames only- though that could still be refined.  Maybe the safety glass could make the trip fine, but the clerestory windows have glass added in maine. 

The dimensions and joinery details must be very tightly controlled with these.  Harold is making drawings which match the originals, but there won't be freedom in developing details like on coach 8.

We look forward to discussing fine details when you get here for SWW.  Be sure to seek out Eric (Harold will be here till the Wednesday prior).

See ya
11  WW&F Railway Museum Discussion / Work and Events / Re: Coach 9 Official Work Thread on: April 18, 2017, 07:04:38 PM
Eric and Harold have a thorough handle on the wood species we need.

What I thought was mahogany trim is mostly oak, hence Steve Zuppa's statements.  Actually, Eric verified that.

Since then, Eric has discovered that the window sills are actually mahogany.

Harold has found the only surviving original window and confirmed that it is mahogony.  Doors are oak.

In short- the decorative woods appear to all be oak.  Mahogany was chosen in a couple places where dimensional stability was desired. 

See ya
12  WW&F Railway Museum Discussion / Work and Events / Re: Box Car 67 - Official Work Thread on: April 18, 2017, 06:48:14 AM
Actually, plan is to equip freight cars w auto Eames eventually.  67 will use an original B&SR cylinder given to us by MNG.

See ya
13  WW&F Railway Museum Discussion / Volunteers / Re: April 2017 Work Planning on: April 18, 2017, 06:46:57 AM
Coal consumption didn't exceed 1 ton, at about $230 per ton; not a major player.

See ya
14  Other Maine Narrow Gauges (Historic & Preserved) / Sandy River & Rangeley Lakes Railroad / Re: Surviting SR & RL Passenger cars on: April 17, 2017, 08:43:15 AM
The F&M coach at BRV is SR&RL 21.

See ya
15  WW&F Railway Museum Discussion / Volunteers / Re: April 2017 Work Planning on: April 15, 2017, 07:40:32 PM
Two train consists, alternately hauled by 3 locomotives, moved 1093 people between 11:30 and 3:35. 

The plan called for one train on the main at a time, so the egg crew had time to re charge the field between groups. 

All reports are that Cindy Rhine did a fabulous job at the egg hunt. 

Thank you to MNG for crewing and allowing the use of Monson locomotive 3.

Selling tickets from Prebles, and keeping the boarding line off the platform was a huge improvement. 

More info later- those are the vital stats.

See ya
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