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Topics - Ed Lecuyer

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601
Bridgton & Saco River Railway / Bachmann On30 2-4-4
« on: December 13, 2008, 04:57:41 AM »
MODERATORS NOTE:
Bachmann On30 2-4-4 has been converted from the pre-July 2008 WW&F Discussion Forum.
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Information contained within this post may be superseded by more recent postings and conversations.

ETSRRCo wrote:
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I have been looking at what I hope will be my next addition to my model railroad collection and my second On30 locomotive. The Bachmann Spectrum On30 2-4-4. It comes in both inside and outside frame. I would prefer the outside frame but since I forgot to tell my parents that in the Christmas list I have started to look at the inside frame version. When I looked at the photo I couldn't help but remember a photo of B&SR #6 The Bachmann model could be made to look just like the #6 with what looks like few modifications. Tell me what you think.

-Eric


_________________
Eric Bolton
East Tigard & Southern Railroad Co 1889-1958

Joe Fox replied:
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That is a wonderful looking model. Do you think it could possibly be W, W, & F #7?

Joe

sgprailfan replied:
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I thought of this one too. I thought I would rather model ww&f #7 witch would require the other type of frame.

ETSRRCo replied:
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You mean this style?




This would need much heavier modifications to look like the 7.




It could be done. The drawing is my own.
_________________
Eric Bolton
East Tigard & Southern Railroad Co 1889-1958

ETSRRCo replied:
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Wow you know what. After looking at the photo and the drawin I can see that it can deffenitly be done. I know what  I'm doing to mine when I get it!! 
_________________
Eric Bolton
East Tigard & Southern Railroad Co 1889-1958

sgprailfan replied:
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So did you get the forney?

602
Bridgton & Saco River Railway / Bridgton Junction
« on: December 13, 2008, 04:56:35 AM »
MODERATORS NOTE:
Bridgton Junction has been converted from the pre-July 2008 WW&F Discussion Forum.
Some formatting may have been removed or modified from the original postings that appear quoted in this topic.
Information contained within this post may be superseded by more recent postings and conversations.

Mike Fox wrote:
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In case anyone is interested, someone has recently cut off where the Junction yard used to be. It is now possible to see the yard layout better. I am waiting for the leaves to drop before returning again before snowfall to get some pictures. Please contact me if you need directions to the yard area or any other part of the railroad you would like to see for yourself.

Dana Deering replied:
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Hey Mike,

Let me know the date you plan to go there.  I'd like to join you.  I've seen the Junction Yard a couple of times in the bushes but it would be nice to see it with a clearer picture of just how things were laid out.

Dana

Mike Fox replied:
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I'll try. Might be a last minute thing or something. One never knows.
Mike

Glenn Christensen replied:
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Hi Guys,

I'm in Georgia - too far away to join you I'm afraid - but I have visited the Jct site (in fact the whole B&SR) many times.  The last time I was there (10+years ago), the oil transfer pipe was still there as were the remains of the coal shed, railbus #2, and the ornamental posts from the Jct depot - still painted red.  You can also see where the mainline fill was bulldozed away by Mr.Atwood's movers to make loading the B&SR rolling stock easier.

While you're there, be sure to visit the Hancock Brook stonemasonary arch.  Just about a mile up the old grade, just north of the site of Scribners mill.

Be sure to bring a metal detector!

As an old B&SR fan, I'd love to hear what you find!

Best Regards,
Glenn

Stephen Hussar replied:
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Dana, which one of these lines did you take your mtn bike on? I'd love to bring mine before it snows! 

Mike Fox replied:
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Glenn, last time I was there over this summer I found an old post of where the coal shed used to be. I had to look at photos to find the right angle of what it was to figure it out. I must have missed the railbus.  I bet I thought it was an old abandoned car. I'll look harder at it next time. Will keep you posted. As for the stone arch, still holding. Still looks as great as ever. They don't build them like that anymore.
Mike

Glenn Christensen replied:
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Thanks Mike!

It would be great to hear what you find.

Best Regards,
Glenn

Dana Deering replied:
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Steve,

I have biked from our camp at Hancock Pond all the way to Sandy Creek northward and from Hancock Pond all the way south to the crossing at the East Hiram Road "Buttermilk Falls".  I could have gone farther south but time didn't permit.  There is one place going south where part of the roadbed has been filled with debris but you can easily get around it to reach the Hancock Brook Arch, which is well worth seeing.
I had no idea that railbus 2 still languished at the Jucntion.  Can't wait to go back and explore sans underbrush.
Anybody know if there are drawings of the West Sebago Station somewhere?  When I was a kid and we first bought our camp lot on Hancock Pond what was left of it (three sides and part of the roof) were still standing at the spot where it had been moved to, on the corner of Hancock Pond and Swamp Roads right next to the old ROW.  Wish I had taken some photos!  The station was first located at the other end of Hancock Pond a few hundred feet south of the water tank.  There was a siding there, too where logs, apples, and other freight was loaded.  After the RR quit my great uncle bought the lot there and built a home on the shore.  He had a large section of the roadbed taken out but you can still see where the station sat and a portion of the siding.  The station was on the easterly sid of the tracks just before the railroad entered a neat little cut that is still there.
I have spent countless hours exploring the B&SR and now take my nieces and nephew on what we call "spike walks".

Dana

Stephen Hussar replied:
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Thanks, Dana. I'm going to try to make it up there sometime in the next couple of months.

Stewart Rhine replied:
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Hey Mike,  I was in the Jct yard 3 or 4 years ago.  It was over grown but we found the foundation for the engine house with the water pipes intact.  We also went up to Bridgton to look at the surviving coal trestle that is on the Harrison Branch.  It is not far from the area of the Bridgton Yard and can be found in the woods alongside the Harrison Branch.  The trestle bents are on concrete footers and use iron brace plates so parts of the trestle are intact.

Stewart

Mike Fox replied:
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Hi Stewart. Yes we found all that also. And Joe and I only live 15 minutes from Bridgton. We saw the trestle this summer. I never knew it existed until one of the books I have had a photo in it. Then the search was on. Amazing any of it is still standing.
Mike

Glenn Christensen replied:
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Hi Dana,

I don't know of any plans of the West Sebago station, but if memory serves me, it looked very similar to the SR&RL's Powder Storage Shed in Kingfield.  It at least had the people door/ freight door trackside layout of the B&SR depot.  The SR&RL building was 10'4" X 20'4" and a drawing of it can be found in Gary Kohler's Two Foot Cyclopedia on Kingfield.  One big difference between the two was that the B&SR stucture had clapboards  and the SR&RL building was shingled.

The late Bob Outland gave me a copy of a B&SR property sheet that I believe lists the size of the B&SR building.  I don't know where it is at the moment, but please contact me off list if you need these for modeling purposes and I'll try to dig it out.

I recall the remains of a small shed type building just north of the site of the current Swamp Road crossing in West Sebago.  It was just a short distance north of where Swamp Road crosses today at what could have been an earlier alignment of it.  The "shed" was about 12"  high at the time and the remains may have rotted away by now.  I do remember wondering at the time if it could have been what was left of the resited West Sebago depot.

I also understand that the original Hancock Tank building still survives in the vicinity of Joe Bennett's cottage on Hancock Pond.  It was moved uphill (east) from the right-of-way to a spot up closer to Hancock Pond Rd and adapted to another purpose.

Best Regards,
Glenn

PS - the last I knew, the South Bridgton depot sign was mounted on a house on the hill in South Bridgton at the northwest corner of Rt 107 and Ingalls Road/Fosterville Road.  Is it still there?  My recollection is that the South Bridgton station and the West Sebago depot were very similar in design.

Dana Deering replied:
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Hi Glenn,

Thanks for the info about the West Sebago Station.  The remains you saw at Swamp Road were indeed all that was left of it.  You can still go there and clear the pine needles away and find the base of the building.  The next time I am at camp I intend to take some measurements.
When I was younger I was told that the Hancock Pond Tank was dismantled and used to build a camp somewhere near Joe Bennet's cottage.  The camp was pointed out to me and is just south of JB's.  Who knows?  People get their info mixed up and it could have been moved somewhere else.  When I was a kid there was a store in part of the Bennet camp and we would walk down and buy penny candy.  The flag holder that was used to flag trains to stop there was still attached to the porch but is gone now.  My mother's uncle used to have the Railroad Crossing sign from the Hancock Pond Road crossing hung over his garage door but it has since been donated to the Sebago Historical Society.
My grandmother was quite a fan of the B&SR and I have some of the photos she took.  She was friends with Ernest Ward, a one time brakeman for the B&SR who wrote "My First Sixty Years in Harrison, Maine".  I got to meet him back in the 60's and it was interesting to talk with him even though I was only about 10 years old!
Another question:  Apparently the B&SR owned a derrick car.  Are there any photos or drawings of it in existence?

Dana

Mike Fox replied:
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Dana, I remember seeing a picture of that someplace. It was in the background of a photo I think. Or I might be thinking of another RR altogethjer. I'll have to look. I have got atleast 7 books on the B&H so it will take time to find it, if I can.

Dana Deering replied:
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Glenn,

The last time I went through South Bridgton the sign was gone.  I know that a while back it was stolen and later recovered so maybe the owner doesn't want to risk losing it again.

Mike,

I have seen the photos of the West Sebago station in the Bridgton Books.  I need to get some measurements.  What is interesting is the station only had one window, and I can remember that from when it was still standing.  In one of the photos you mention the building seems to be in a spot different from the original location.  The track map that the Bridgton Historical Society has shows it in the original location on the southerly end of the Hancock Pond section along with the siding.  This was immeditaley before the railroad entered a cut (which is still there) as it swung down to the shore of the pond.  The photo I mention doesn't show the cut and I wonder if the station was moved northward to serve Camp Wabanki and then moved north again after the railroad was abandoned.  Who knows?

Dana

Glenn Christensen replied:
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Hi Dana,

Based on the available video and phoyographic evidence I believe that the West Sebago station was indeed moved.  The best evidence for this is the Sunday River productions video, which shows the postmaster in West Sebago waiting at the depot, mailbag in hand, when the northbound railbus was pulling in.  The location does not look like the original West Sebago location, but rather the northeast corner of the Swamp Road crossing.

As to when the move might have happened, I would guess the 30s.  The reason for the move.  Probably for the convenience of the postmaster, since the mail was by that time probably the biggest reason for the station's continued existence.  The old station was also sited in a "non-level" location.  Transferring any kind of freight at Swamp Road would have been much easier.  The Hancock Pond road crossing was on the upgrade from the pondside and probably too near the camps for it to be a practical alternative.  Swamp Road might have been closer to the end of the postmaster's local delivery area as well.

Best Regards,
Glenn

Dana Deering replied:
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Hi Glenn,

I have never seen that video.  Now you've piqued my curiosity.  I have a nice photo of one of my grandmother's friends balancing on the rails on the upgrade to the Hancock Pond Road crossing.  You can see the crossing sign in the background, and it shows just how the railroad left the shore of the pond and veered off.  (My grandmother is the one who first got me hooked on the B&SR and fed my 2 footer addiction.)
I'm still wondering if the West Sebago Station was moved twice.  There is a photo in Two Feet to the Lakes that shows what is supposed to be the West Sebago Station and it is not near the cut nor is the Swamp Road anywhere to be seen.

Dana

Mike Fox replied:
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Dana, We have a copy of that video here. I'll get Joe to make you a copy and we'll give it to you Saturday the 7th.
Mike

Bruce Wilson replied:
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To all,

If any of you fellows are interested in a caravan tour of the Bridgton line, please let us know here. I would love to follow along with someone who knows the layout.

Bruce

Dana Deering replied:
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Hi Everyone,

I got home last night after a very busy and very successful Fall Work Weekend and, not having gotten my fill of two footers (it's been over 40 years now and I don't think I'll ever get enough), I sat down and watched the Sunday River video that Mike and Joe Copied for me (Thank You!).  The footage is great but the narration is chock full of errors.  I saw the brief clip of the postmaster waiting for the Bus at what they claim is West Sebago Station but I think that is an error.  I think that is the South Bridgton Station due to its location on the East side of the track and to the fact that it has two doors on the track sid and the West Sebago Station only had one. Also, the road location would make sense for South Bridgton because the South Bridgton (Ingalls) Station weas on that corner of the intersection of Ingall's Road and the B&SR. They must have been picking up the South Bridgton mail.
I would be willing to act as a guide for at least part of a B&SR tour.  I am very familiar with the track from the East Hiram Road, just north of the Hancock Brook Arch, to Sandy Creek.  Perhaps others could fill in the gaps.  I think we could have a great time.
Here's a question:  I have explored around Deep Cut a couple of times looking for evidence of Cold Spring.  This was a spring that came up right in the roadbed during construction and was piped off to the side.  It became a regular unofficial stop for many trains.  I have not been able to find it.  I would think that the piping might still survive and I always thought it would border on a Two Foot spiritual experience to get a drink from it.Dana

Glenn Christensen replied:
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Hi Dana,

The late Bob Outland showed me the actual location of Cold Spring on a trip to B&SR country some years ago.  It is actually located between Perleys Mills (mp 8.99) and Ingalls Rd (mp 10.44) stations on the east side of the roadbed, just beyond the point where the ROW straightens out for the run north to Ingalls.  As I recall,  Deep Cut is just south of the last Willett Brook crossing below Sandy Creek and well north of the site of the "official South Bridgton" (mp 12.07) station.

Best Regards,
Glenn

Joe Fox replied:
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Have any of you guys, besides Dana, riden down most of the old B. & S R rr bed? Me and my dad have. It is a shame that nobody has started or tried starting a two foot gauge railroad recreating the B&SR because of how scenic it is. However, teenagers and adults now a days could care less about railroads. But they should remember that it is the railroad that made our country so strong, and made towns become as big as they are now.

Joe

Dana Deering replied:
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Hey Everyone,

Here's another question.  I have a photo of my great-great grandfather, Loren Merrifield, when he was a Section Foreman for the B&SR.  It was taken in front of Joe Bennett's cottage on Hancock Pond, which is where the Lakeside Section House was located for Section 2, which was his Section.  The photo shows him on a four wheeled pump car.  There is a later photo of this same pump car with different wheels on it found in Two Feet to the Lakes.  Anyone know what happened to it?  Or what happened to other B&SR handcars?  Did they go to Edaville?  The scrap heap?  Velocipedes are nice but a four wheeled rig would be easier to balance, I think.  Just more food for thought.  Oh, the Lakeside Section House appears in the Maine Two Footers film taken around 1937 but it was in sad shape.  By 1940-1 it had been removed or torn down.  According to the track maps that the Bridgton Historical Society has there was also a Section House at Gravel Pit, where there was also a long siding.  I wonder where the other section houses were located?

Dana

Mike Fox replied:
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Dana, One video or picture I forget which, shows the handcar that someone had lettered B&SR, WW&F, SRRL, KC and Monson outside of one of the buildings at Edaville. I thought it was something made up at a latter time but in someones railfan video of the '37 -'40 era, there is that car headed top speed south out of Bridgton yard. And they were cooking.  Lettered like it was in Edaville. Maybe it is at Maine Narrow guage now. It must still be around. Maybe the description will get someone thinking and let us know the wherabouts of that one.
Mike

James Patten replied:
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That handcar was rescued by Lawrence "Brownie" Brown from the mudflats in Wiscasset and rebuilt.  It now is at Boothbay Railway Museum.  For the last few years we had borrowed it for the Annual Picnic.  Well now we have our own so we don't need to!

Mike Fox replied:
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See, I knew I had seen that someplace. Thanks James

Bruce Wilson replied:
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I'm trying to learn more about both the origins of the former Lawrence Brown handcar and the two foot narrow gage railroad that Mr. Brown had constructed at his home in Gardiner, Maine.

Years ago with others from the W.W. & F. Ry. Museum, I visited "Brownie" at his home in Belgrade Lakes. He told our group that the marine railway he had constructed from his property into the lake was built with rail salvaged from the Wiscasset trestle.

I'm curious if the marine railway was laid with the same rail used in his earlier operation at Gardiner, later transplanted to the Belgrade Lake property.

I have one photo of his track in Gardiner after a snow storm had been cleared from the tracks. I believe there are other photos of his railroad and just purchased another on eBay that also shows Gardiner and the handcar.

I think that within my Bridgton photo collection (of railfan excursion trips), that the same handcar is evident and being used by fans within the Bridgton yard.

After reading Dana's question about where the Bridgton handcars went, I too am now wondering.

ekmissal replied:
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Hi,
I just found this photo of B&H engine #8 on ebay, item #180045383525. I thought someone might be interested in it.
Erik

Joe Fox replied:
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I will have to take a quick look at that. Do you know where the photo wsa taken?

Joe

Joe Fox replied:
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Ok, the photo was taken in Brigton Junction, in fron of the coal shed. The caption says that it was taken in 1941, and that is very possible. You can also see the platform, with the pole barn type roof, or what ever the technical name for it is. Talk to you later.

Joe

Dana Deering replied:
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Hi all,

I am reasonably sure that the ebay phot was taken at the time the B&H was abandoned or shortly thereafter.  Number 8 was moved to that spot in front of the coal shed and sat there for quite a while.  There are post abandonment photos taken from other angles that show her sitting there.  There is one photo in Ernest Ward's My First Sixty Years in Harrison, Maine that shows her sitting there surrounded by a lot of freight cars in various stages of deterioration.  I am not sure when she was moved from that spot.  I don't think she was moved into the engine house but I'm not sure.  The most striking thing to me is the condition of her paint.  I think she was repainted shortly before the B&H quit.  I have seen photos taken of her in the winter of 1941 (Feb, I think) and she didn't look as good as she does in the photo.  I had the good fortune to ride in her cab when she first came back to Portland.  She is a bit of a coal hog but I remember how smoothly she rode!

Dana

Joe Fox replied:
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The only thing good about the 7 & 8 are their size and power. They can pull a decent sized train, without much problem, but as you said Dana, they can be great coal hogs.

Joe

Dana Deering replied:
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Joe,

7 is a lot easier on coal than 8 and 8 is tricky to fire.  In order to get her to steam right, at least this is what I was told when I was riding at Portland, you have to build a thick bank in the rear of the firebox and make it thinner as you reach the tube sheet.  I don't know if 8 has a petticoat pipe that is adjustable but that may have something to do with it.  I do know that Everett Brown of the B&H never liked 8 because she was not economical to run.  Why the Maine Central bought such a heavy locomotive for the B&SR in 1924, when the handwriting was already on the wall, is a mystery to me.  Too bad they hadn't bought SR&RL #9. She was a good steamer and would have suited the Bridgton's traffic demands.  Makes me sick just to think of anyone putting the torch to those beautiful Baldwins...

Dana

James Patten replied:
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Somebody told me story about #8 at Edaville - could have Bruce or Jason, I don't know which.  Anyway it was during the Christmas lights season, which is when #7 and #8 usually ran.  #7 broke down somewhere out on the line with a full train.  #8 was behind it, also with a full train.  They coupled #8 up to the back of 7's train (with it's own train still behind it), opened the throttle, and eventually #8 moved the entire train along and returned to the station.

It would be a better story if I could remember the number of cars.  I think it was in the 20s.

Bruce Wilson replied:
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James,

Probably 9 passenger cars (including caboose) per train, much more than that and the consist became too long to fit the Edaville station platform.

The locomotive would need to spot on the water tank and not have too much of the train down grade of the station, and still out beyond the home signal guarding the approach.

At times in Edaville's operations a gas-mechanical lokie would be kept on the facing point switch (snack bar siding) and assigned the duty to give the heavy Christmas trains a push out of the station. When conditions warranted, one of the G.E. diesels would be assigned this duty and sometimes the pusher unit would go beyond the outbound yard limit, shoving for all its worth.

The longest train I ever had was 9 cars and that was the maximum that G.E. diesel no. 2 could handle up Cranberry Valley grade, through Ball Park curve and up Mount Urann. I had a full tonnage train one day and was ordered to push another full tonnage train in from MP-3 to Edaville station. Ahead of my engine was boxcar No. 13 with a generator set inside. What a feeling to know that all the stresses of movement were passing through that cars framing as we pushed the cripple in.

Joe Fox replied:
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That is interesting. The only bad thing is though, the longer your train with those locomotives, you seem to just about tripple your coal usage, from what I have been told.

Joe

Bruce Wilson replied:
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No doubt Joe... the more work to be done, the more coal to be consumned.

For a brief period in the 1980's, Edaville was in a rather unique position with regards to coal. Affiliate (Bay Colony Railroad) brought in standard gage hopper cars of coal to a dealer having a siding in Hanson, MA. The coal was offloaded and then trucked the final (short) haul to Edaville.

The cost of coal was certainly noticed at Edaville, but that is what the crowds came for...coal smoke, steam and the Christmas display.

Interestingly, Linwood Moody wrote a cost comparison on coal burning steam locomotives and diesel-oil fueled, diesel-electric locomotives. He wrote this comparison while employed as a station agent on the Belfast & Moosehead Lake Railroad at Brooks, Maine.

Moody cites the efficiency of the G.E. 70 tonners, although he laments the demise of the venerable steamers.

I'll bet he'd have fun today comparing the differences between the Edaville G.E. 23 ton diesel-electric and the oil-fired Hudswell-Clarke steam locomotive now in use at Edaville.

I've been assigned to both machines, they are two distinctly different locomotives...

Joe Fox replied:
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I was watching a tape on the Maine Central Mountain division, I know this has nothing to do with this topic, and it took 3 2-8-2 mikado's to pull a 50 car freight train up to Crawford notch, and it took about 5-8 deisle's to pull a 50 car freight train up Crawford Notch. One thing good about steam, is you have more horsepower, however, this isn't all ways the case.

Joe

Bruce Wilson replied:
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Joe,

There is a spot near the top of a long grade, just east of Hiram where an east-bound freight came to a stop. A four axle diesel must've sat spinning its wheels with too heavy a train for the grade. You can see where the wheels have ground right into the rail head and left "craters".

I walked the whole area there a few months ago looking for where the Bridgton Junction was. I was way (east) of the junction location.

Mike Fox replied:
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Bruce,
Is that below the power plant or in that area. Or near the swamp. East of Hiram would be towards Portland and was wondering where they are. Might be something worth looking at.
Mike

Joe Fox replied:
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That sounds interesting Bruce. I wonder how many spot were like that on the Mountain Division from Bartlette, up to Crawfords.

Joe

Bruce Wilson replied:
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Mike and Joe,

The wheelspin "craters" I found in my search for the Bridgton Junction. I remember parking along the highway at a scenic overlook by the power plant. I went down the steep embankment and hiked all along the right of way. Somewhere near the top of the grade are the wheel spin marks.

I'll be going back out there again at some point and will endeavor to get better directions for you. I found these fairly easy, and for me (not being able to find the junction) they must have been easy to spot...

I've hiked much of the Crawford Notch trackage back in the 1980's, and never saw rail with slippage marks on the head like this. These are from a diesel and maybe during the period of the employee strike just before Springfield Terminal. An east bound to Portland just couldn't pull the hill and slowly ground her wheels.

Joe Fox replied:
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Ok. Thanks for the info Bruce. Talk to you later.

Joe

Mike Fox replied:
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Thanks Bruce.
I might go get a shot of them before snow flies. I once saw a rail about 2 feet long in a Model Railroad shop in Georgia that had a wheel mark in the head. Worn almost through the head. Came from a yard, possibly Macon, Georgia, where some hot head engineer thought he could pull everything he could couple to. And Just sat there and ground away. Then I think they got rid of him. That is the story, or as close as I can remember, that I got from the shop owner. Have never seen one since.
Mike

James Patten replied:
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I'll point out a couple of spots at the WW&F where I've spun my wheels on the 52.  Only in winter when trying to plow.

Mike Fox replied:
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I won't tell Dana
Mike

Mike Fox replied:
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James,
Do they look like this. This is fairly significant I think. I suppose I should put a little info. Bruce told me about these. They are about 1 mile south of the Junction. By the Hydro plant. Looks like someone had trouble trying to climb a little grade. I imagine there must have been a 10mph restriction at the time and done after the line closed in 1983. Not much has traveled over them.



Mike

Mike Fox replied:
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I'll title this one "DANA WAS HERE"

Mike Fox replied:
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Here are a few more of Bridgton Junction. The top one is one of the supports for the coalshed. Still amazingly sound. Another shot of this can be seen in my earlier picture with the coal on a stump. Above the coal and to the left.


This is the turntable pit with the mainline in the background. Both pics.




More to come.
Mike

Steve Zuppa replied:
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Mike,
Really nice photos.Dana and I walked a lot of the ROW in November about 5-6 years ago, armed with "Busted and Still Running".We, too, were amazed at just how much is still around.
Merry Christmas.
Steve
_________________
"Keep to the code!"
Capt. Jack Sparrow

Mike Fox replied:
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Here are a couple more photos. In the first photo, I'm standing approximately on the switch to the turntable/enginehouse looking at the turntable. It can't be seen but it is just through those trees.



In this second photo, I'm standing where I think the yard started. In the back of the little pines to the right were the remains of the coalshed. This is where #8 sat until it was moved to Edaville. The turntable pit is to my right. Looking south/south west. And you can see how the recent cutting has opened this up a bit.
Mike


Stephen Hussar replied:
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Very cool. Great pictures, Mike! Has there ever been any effort to rebuild any of this? Seems like a natural.
_________________
*                *                    *                   *
"Give me enough Swedes and whiskey and I'll build a railroad to Hell."
- James J. Hill

Mike Fox replied:
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Not yet. I believe it is all in private hands now and a lot of the right of way is either camp roads or recreation trails.
Mike

Bruce Wilson replied:
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Mike,

I visited the Junction today and am grateful for the photos you have posted. They help explain the remains and provide orientation.

What can you tell me about the automobile parts in the yard (old railbus?) and the row of cut granite blocks that appear to have been moved from an abutment and piled alongside the grade.

Thanks,
Bruce

Mike Fox replied:
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Bruce,
My reference has been Two Feet to the lakes. I have other books to refer to but that seems to have the most overall information. In that book, page 208 has a photo that was taken after abandonment. the Maine Central was rebuilding their bridge over the Saco River (see page 206). I think the stones came from there. I took pictures of them while I was there. Also the same photo on page 206 shows a good shot of the coalshed. At the base of the wall you can see the posts that held the wall up.
As far as the metal parts, they might be the remains of railbus #2. Glenn Christensen is the one that pointed those to me. Where the parts are, according to old hand drawn maps, there was once a turntable there for the MEC. I have yet to see a picture of that anywhere so I don't know how true it is.
And did you notice the remains of the old telephone poles up where the station used to sit? I have compared their location with photos in the book and have real rough idea where the station was.
Mike

Bruce Wilson replied:
Quote
Mike,
I have been pouring over my Bridgton books, photos, etc. Unfortunately I don't have this material with me and I didn't have a chance to grab the photos before going to the Junction yesterday. Your photos and information has been real helpful in the meantime.

I like your theory on where the granite blocks came from and I'll look for coal shed photos when I get a chance to pull my books out.

I didn't see a frame under the remains of the automobile, nothing that would indicate rail usage. I do recall reading that a railbus still existed on the site. I wonder why it was left behind? Some of the parts are quite sound. One of the doors shows collision damage. Maybe the hulk was shoved by an excavator or log loader to move it and damaged in the process many years ago.

Perhaps one of the old-time narrow gage guys might have written something about the old car in an article, such as "Narrow Gauge Junction" that Richard Andrews wrote (back in the 50's) for Railroad Model Craftsman magazine. Sure will be interesting to try to find more on this.

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
Bruce,
I also was wondering about the absence of a frame. Could have been a parts source for the other railbus. It sure would be interesting to find that out.
Mike

Glenn Christensen replied:
Quote
Hi Guys,

To the best of my knowledge, the "old car" is indeed the remains of old railbus #2.  About 30 years ago I visited it when it was still pretty identifiable.  The doors were steel clad, but wood framed.  I still have one of the old hinges.  One of the doors was later rescued by a local resident and presented to the Bridgton Historical Society.  I assumed at the time and still believe that the undercarriage was removed and cut up by the scrappers.  The rest left in situ because it was just sheet metal over a wood frame and not worth the trouble to recover.

I know Bob Outland showed me the remains of the pipe that was used at the Junction to offload the contents of standard gauge tankcars.  It actually ran under one of the dual gauge sidings, which was set at a higher elevation than an adjacent track.  At this point, the bottom of the standard gauge tank was higher than the fill line on the narrow gauge car.  Drain pipes roughly the diameter of a fire hose, could be found in the bottom center of tank cars in those days.  The last I saw, the n.g. tanks still have them.  The n.g. tank cars were positioned on the lower track alongside.  The valves were opened and gravity did the rest.

Oh, to clear up one issue.  The standard gauge turntable was shown in a map that appeared in "Busted and Still Running".  That is the only place I've ever seen it.  I was never able to find any signs of it on the ground at the site, so my belief is the table was never actually built.

I recall on a trip to the Junction many years ago, the turned awning roof supports from the depot were still at the site.  These can be seen in photos showing the narrow gauge side of the station.  The original bright red paint was still in evidence at that time.

Best Regards,
Glenn

Dana Deering replied:
Quote
So Mike,

You found my pile of coal, I see.  Linda and I went to Hiram in October and climbed Mount Cutler.  When we came down we decided to hike the MEC south to Bridgton Junction and we poked around a bit in the yard.  I found the remains of the railbus, the turntable pit, engine house foundation, etc.  The little bit of clearing that was done there did help with perspective.  The granite slabs that Bruce mentions were left over from the MEC's bridge replacement project that took place rith around the time the B&SR was abandoned.  Steve Z. and I went in there once and you could see that those blocks have sat right in the same place since the day they dropped them there.  We need to organize a filed trip so we can pool our tidbits of knowledge.  I think it would be a lot of fun.
I have never seen any evidence of a standard gauge turntable at the junction.  There are remains of one at Sebago Lake Station.  Unfortunately the Portland Water District has fenced off much of that area so you can't get in to poke around.
I would suspect that the wheel burns in the rail were caused by a very low speed restriction on that section (the line was very bad in the Baldwin area) and a heavy train, maybe one of those ballast trains, who knows.

Dana

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
Good news. NE Rail has Put the Bridgton & Saco River on their site. I'm adding photos as quick as I can. I would love to see others.
Mike

Stephen Hussar replied:
Quote
Quote
We need to organize a field trip so we can pool our tidbits of knowledge.  I think it would be a lot of fun. Dana
Me too! Is there any room in the schedule for an annual "field trip" day, or could it be scheduled the day after spring work weekend?
_________________
*                *                    *                   *
"Give me enough Swedes and whiskey and I'll build a railroad to Hell."
- James J. Hill

Bill Sample replied:
Quote
Thanks for posting all those photos, Mike.  I've done some informal exploring of the line but never got to hoof it around the Junction.  If a field trip is ever planned it would be worth a drive from Connecticut for me as I'm sure I could learn a lot from "the local experts."  Judging from the photos I imagine any exploration would have to be done during the non-foliage season.
Although the B&SR/B&H easily gave us the greatest amount of preserved equipment from the "Maine Five," it sure lost out as far as remaining physical plant goes.  Are there any intact buildings outside of a shed? Only the Kennebec Central seems to have faired worse.
Another thing I have thought about was how there was a push by Edgar Mead and a few others to keep the line going as a tourist railroad right at the end in 1940-41.  Had the town of Bridgton supported this maybe it could have happened - then the B&H could have become the world's first "preserved railway"- a title now rightfully claimed by the Talyllyn in Wales.  And had that happened, what would the Maine 2 Foot preservation scene be like today?

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
The only "structure" I have found is the remains of the coal trestle in Bridgton. And that is fading too. Be sure to go to http://photos.nerail.org/show/?byrail:1:Bridgton_&_Saco_River
to see more photos. As of this moment, I still have a dozen or so more pics to put on but haven't got them ready yet. Maybe by the weekend. And that is all south end pictures. I haven't been north of Barker pond with my camera yet.
Mike

James Patten replied:
Quote
I do wonder at times if the B&H had made it to WWII if the USRA would have forced the B&H to stay open, just in case or for shipping of goods.  Once the war ended it might have been at just the right time for the tourists to start coming in and making it really popular.

Wayne Laepple replied:
Quote
There was no USRA during World War II, James. The USRA was formed after the US entered World War I to force the railroads to cooperate with the government, though its efforts are recognized for the most part to have been a failure.

The federal government actually hastened the abandonment of some railroads during World War II when rail and equipment was needed for other locations. Here in Pennsylvania, the Susquehanna & New York RR lost out on a stay of execution because the government wanted its rail for use at an arsenal under construction nearby. And let's not forget the military's confiscation of locomotives from the Denver & Rio Grande narrow gauge (K-27 2-8-2's) and Colorado & Southern for use on the White Pass & Yukon.

Whether the gas and tire shortages would have helped the B&SR is questionable. Don't forget what happened to the Monson in the middle of the war.

Dana Deering replied:
Quote
Bill and All,

My grandfather told me that one of his friends lived (and still lives) in the old Harrison Station.  The Harrison Branch is the only section of the B&SR that I haven't explored much but if we take our field trip we'll have to check out this rumor.  If it's true then it would be the only station left standing that I know of.  North Bridgton station was torn down a few years ago, I think.  Twin Lakes disappeared back in the 80's as did what was left of the West Sebago Station.
If you check out Mike's thread about the Hancock Pond Tank you will see pictures of the tank house converted into a camp.  We are also beginning to wonder about another structure that was north of the water tank that may have had some railroad use at one time.
But you are right, not much survived, which is a shame.  Thankfully the roadbed is still largely intact.

Dana

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
Dana,
Finally found a reference to the derrick car. It was small and only cost $185 in 1890-91. I don't know how accurate the info is in TFTTL because it says in the same paragraph the there is an arch at the head of Barker Pond. And one thing I was wondering, you mentioned Back Nippin in another thread. Doesn't a snowmobile trail go that way. I think I remember a sign down there.
Mike

Dana Deering replied:
Quote
Mike,

Yes, there is a snowmobile trail that goes through Back Nippin'.  It follows the old Back Nippin' Road and comes out on Route 107 at one end and at the B&SR roadbed at "Chessey's" on the other.

Dana

603
Archives (Museum) / Albion video
« on: December 13, 2008, 04:53:58 AM »
MODERATORS NOTE:
Albion video has been converted from the pre-July 2008 WW&F Discussion Forum.
Some formatting may have been removed or modified from the original postings that appear quoted in this topic.
Information contained within this post may be superseded by more recent postings and conversations.

Stephen Hussar wrote:
Quote
All, a short video clip from this year's Albion Day work session has been edited and uploaded to http://www.railwayvideo.org

Joe Fox replied:
Quote
Nice video Steve. I am glad to be albe to see what went on at Albion, since I wasn't able to go. Do they plan on running a tourist operation up there, like what we do down at the museum?

Joe

Ira Schreiber replied:
Quote
Very nice video. It makes me homesick for Maine.
ira

Dave Buczkowski replied:
Quote
Steve;
Nice video. It was the first thing I opened this morning. I'm sure Carl will enjoy seeing and hearing his comment about recording!
Joe;
It would be great to run an historical (not tourist) operation some day. There appears to be between a quarter and a half mile of right of way which could be used if things were to fall right. What's needed is volunteers as Carl, Phil and Bruce can't do it all themselves. I have some ideas I will circulate when I have the time to get them all out.
Dave

Steve Smith replied:
Quote
Thanks for the video, Steve. I loved that last scene with Carl!

Small Steve

James Patten replied:
Quote
Steve, when I saw the steer I was expecting you to dub in Carl's voice at that point asking about the camera being on.  However it works as is!

Stewart Rhine replied:
Quote
Steve,  Good video, it shows what I missed.  Thanks for posting it.  I like James' comment - wonder what Carl would think of his voice coming from the steer...

Next year we should take the handcar up.  You can show the crew putting a shine on the rails.

Stephen Hussar replied:
Quote
James, it was either "moo" or "bull" 
_________________
*                *                    *                   *
"Give me enough Swedes and whiskey and I'll build a railroad to Hell."
- James J. Hill

Joe Fox replied:
Quote
I think the hand car is to lite to shine the rails.

Joe

Steve Zuppa replied:
Quote
Not if you go back and forth 487 times.
Steve
_________________
"Keep to the code!"
Capt. Jack Sparrow

Glenn Christensen replied:
Quote
Hey Steve,

LOVED THE VIDEO!!!

Two questions:
1) Did you get a signed release from the bull?

2) Who's gonna tell Carl he really wasn't edited out?

Grins and Best Regards,
Glenn

Joe Fox replied:
Quote
Steve Zuppa,

Only you would have the strength, and ambition to pump that hand car back and forth 487 times. I would only want to do it, at most, 10 times, since the track isn't very long, and even if I did do it that many, I would lose count after the first 2, because that is as high as I can count. Ha Ha Ha. Steve Hussar, Are you going to be at the museum this weekend, to make a video of the Victorian Christmas like you did last year? I thought that last years Victorian Christmas video was great.

Joe

Stephen Hussar replied:
Quote
Thanks all -- glad you liked it! 
_________________
*                *                    *                   *
"Give me enough Swedes and whiskey and I'll build a railroad to Hell."
- James J. Hill

Brian Murphy replied:
Quote
Steve you should have gotten some audio of carl asking if anybody needs a breaker bar. and dubs it over the video every 30 seconds. haha

604
Archives (Museum) / Spring Work Weekend Dates
« on: December 13, 2008, 04:51:45 AM »
MODERATORS NOTE:
Spring Work Weekend Dates has been converted from the pre-July 2008 WW&F Discussion Forum.
Some formatting may have been removed or modified from the original postings that appear quoted in this topic.
Information contained within this post may be superseded by more recent postings and conversations.

Dana Deering wrote:
Quote
Hi All,

Please mark your calendars for the Spring Work Weekend, which will be April 27 - 29.  The plan for the weekend is pretty straightforward:  We will start at Albee's crossing and work south ballasting, tamping, etc. to get as much of that section in service as possible.  If we get it done with time to spare we will go north of Albee's and keep at it.

Dana

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
Thanks Dana. Something to look forward to for next year now. Putting it on my calendar right now.
Mike

Joe Fox replied:
Quote
Dana,

I look foward to tamping and ballasting this spring.

Joe

ETSRRCo replied:
Quote
I'll be there and I'll bring friends!!
_________________
Eric Bolton
East Tigard & Southern Railroad Co 1889-1958

Joe Fox replied:
Quote
That's great. How many friends? I have been trying to get some of my railcamp buddies to come up and help us lay track down, but so far nobody has really tried to come up and help the museum out. I have put several posts on the RailCamp chatting place website about the museum, and how they could help, but only one of them has been up to visit.

Joe

Jon Dandridge replied:
Quote
My family and I are planning to be there at least for Saturday.

Jon

Dave Buczkowski replied:
Quote
Dana;
It's already on my calendar (though not on an official WW&F one) and I've bumped up the weight on my bench presses so I won't embarrass myself.
Dave

Ira Schreiber replied:
Quote
Well, it is only 30 days away for the April track blitz.
Who, of the non-semi-locals is planning to be there?
I guess I mean over 250 miles away.

I just got my flights and my wife is actually coming with me.

She had to be assured that we:
a. Did not sleep in 309
b. Did not eat over a tie fire
c. Did not use a little green house
d. did not bathe in Humason Brook

Having done all this, we are staying in Edgecome for a week and doing a little of the sights.
I look forward to seeing all of you.
Ira & Corrine Schreiber

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
Won't be long and we'll be hearing that sound of shovels in ballast and the tampers running. The sounds of progress and teamwork will again be in the air.
Mike

Ira Schreiber replied:
Quote
So get out the Ben-gay, the hot packs, the ice packs and fill the hot tub spa. Work weekend is approaching.
Has anyone requested for the weather to be cooperative? What about the spring "bugs"?
Watch out track, here we come......

Dana Deering replied:
Quote
Remember the year we shovelled snow of the ROW so we could lay track just north of CockEye Curve?  Well, I am looking out the window and getting some deja vu vibes...

Dave Buczkowski replied:
Quote
Dana;
I believe our union contract calls for a 10% pay differential for shoveling snow. You need to think postive vibes-partly sunny in the mid 50's is what we want.
Dave

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
I'm guessing the way the weather keeps going, bugs will not be a problem this year. Luckily, the frost went out of the top part of the ground before we got the last round of snow. I haven't checked here yet to see how far down the frost is or how far it goes. I'd have to shovel through the snow first where I plan on digging this year.
Mike

Josh Botting replied:
Quote
I hope the frost comes out of the ground before the work weekend. That could be very messy else.  My dentist was saying today that he was born in a snow storm, in May....... Welcome to Maine!

Bill Reidy replied:
Quote
My first visit to the museum was the 2001 spring work weekend.  And the first thing I did at the museum was shovel snow off the right-of-way at cockeye curve.

Isn't that why the weekend got moved to the end of the month?   

Bill

Wayne Laepple replied:
Quote
What I'm wondering is whether the roads will have firmed up enough for the trucks to bring stone. It's only two weeks hence.

Stewart Rhine replied:
Quote
Dana and Bill,  You guys are right on the money.  We shoveled snow off the grade from the North end of Cockeye Curve up towards the crossing at Sheepscot Mills (formerly Hall's).  Then it rained a little, this was in the Spring of 2001.  I have a bunch of photos of us placing ties and carrying rail through deep mud.  We had to put wooden planks along side the ties because we were sinking down so far into the mud while carrying rail.  Alex Hernandez got stuck so bad that his foot came out of his boot!  That place was a real mud hole - even before we cleared it.  I walked to the trestle in April, 1998 and had to go up the hill to get around the mud on the grade.

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
Unless the sun comes out and stays out, the stone might not be able to be delivered. I know the roads around here will still be posted in a couple of weeks unless some drastic drying goes on. I did not remember seeing a road posted sign anywhere near the museum the way I travel.
Mike

Ira Schreiber replied:
Quote
After many balmy days in the 60's, we are predicted to get 12" of snow in the next two days.
Maine has nothing on Colorado except a much longer winter.
Ira

Dave Buczkowski replied:
Quote
I too remember Mud Weekend. The mud never came off my workboots. But what fun would it be if it was 65 and suny all the time.
Ira, I remember all the weather bragging you were doing a few weeks ago. The Narrow Gauge Gods have repaid you for your hubris.
Dave

James Patten replied:
Quote
Cross Road has been posted for a couple of weeks at least.  However usually the road commissioner works with us to get us our stone.  If it's cold enough early in the morning he may lift it temporarily so that the trucks can get through.

However none of this would be a problem if we were storing stone at Alna Center.

Joe Fox replied:
Quote
So I am guessing that is the major reason why you guys wan't the stone moved up to Alna Center. I have been told it is also to shorten the travel of the work trains. Talk to you guys later.

Joe

Ira Schreiber replied:
Quote
Dave,
I appeased the weather gods. We were forcast for up to 12" of snow. Woke up this morning and NADA, zip, nothing. Just started to spit snow about 11 a.m. The great forecaster says now maybe 1".
Tomorrow is predicted 60 and Sunday 65. That is Colorado weather at its finest.......

Stewart Rhine replied:
Quote
Joe,  The top three reasons for moving stone storage at AC are -
(1) To keep the area clear in front of the Sheepscot carshop.
(2) To shorten the travel time for delivering stone to the work zone/EOT.
(3) Trucks can come in off of 218 and not have to travel on the posted Alna town roads.

James Patten replied:
Quote
As Stewart said, a major reason is to keep the area of of the carshop cleared.  However, we get the added benefit of being able to keep some extra stone on hand for maintenance purposes, rather than being forced to get it out of the way ASAP.

Once the stone and coal storage is moved elsewhere, we can really turn attention to making the front of the shop area a nice looking place.

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
Get those shovels ready. Rumor has it that we are going to get the storm of the century Sunday night into Monday. 1 to 2 feet. If this keeps up, we will have to shovel the snow out of the way to put down the ballast.  Hopefully they are wrong and we only get 1 to 2 inches. I had started raking my lawn 2 weeks ago but it is now under about 1 foot of snow.
Mike

Joe Fox replied:
Quote
If this keeps up, we will be shoveling snow instead of ballast come the spring work weekend. Talk to you guys later.

Joe

Steve Smith replied:
Quote
Mike and Joe,

Weather Underground website is forecasting that the precip beginning Sunday will be mostly rain in Wiscasset. That ought to wash away some snow, but just make Averill Rd all the muddier I suppose.

Steve

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
I hope they are right. I, for one, have finally tired of the snow and hope that what I heard was exaggerated.
Mike

Joe Fox replied:
Quote
That, and the railroad grade. What fun that will be. I have seen some pictures of a railroad that was washed away from a river flooding. It washed away most of the railroad grade, and it cost them over a million dollars to rebuild the railroad grade. Hopefully we don't have to do anything like that, and hopefully, the railroad grade will continue to stay where it is, and not wash away, like it has just North of the Mountain. Talk to you guys later.

Joe

Stewart Rhine replied:
Quote
Two more feet of snow!!?!  If this keeps up we'll be shoveling snow at the picnic 

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
They have backed it down a bit now. 18 inches to 2 feet in the mountains. 4-10 inches on the coast with rain mixing in. I cleaned a few ditches yesterday of some debris at Alna Center and dirt at Jane's Way (formerly Stockford's) to keep the water flowing.
Mike

Stephen Hussar replied:
Quote
We didn't take any pictures, but we took the handcar for a spin yesterday! It was gorgeous out! However much snow falls, it will be gone in a day or two
_________________
*                *                    *                   *
"Give me enough Swedes and whiskey and I'll build a railroad to Hell."
- James J. Hill

Ira Schreiber replied:
Quote
Out at The Colorado Live Steamers site, yesterday, we laid, ballasted and tamped 110' feet of track.
The weather was clear and 68 degrees.
Such is our weather after a prediction of up to 12" on Friday and we got nothing.
We'll see you all in ten days.
Ira

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
Remember the fly dope this year! The bugs have started coming out as it has been 70 the last 2 days. Supposed to cool a bit for this weekend but not enough to deter the bugs once they start.
Mike

Wayne Laepple replied:
Quote
Prior to heading north on Thursday morning, I've got two questions for those of you already there:
1.) How muddy are things around the railroad?
2.) Is stone able to be delievered to Sheepscot?

Joe Fox replied:
Quote
Things aren't to bad at the moment, but a damper is coming on Friday, that may screw up the tamping operations more. That's right, we got more rain coming for Friday. 
_________________
“We are extremely proud of our collection of historical railroad equipment, which is the largest of any U. S. railroad, especially our steam locomotives.”
-Steve Lee-

Joe

Allan Fisher replied:
Quote
Road to Sheepscot has not been posted for at least a week now - so stone delivery will be no problem. With temperatures this week at almost 70, we are hoping that mud condiitons will be manageable.

James Patten replied:
Quote
Right now it sounds like fire conditions are very unfavorable for external combustion engines.  That's right, even with all the rain and flooding we've had the top layer of ground is quite dry.  The showers we'll get should make the dryness better.

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
They are now talking of showers Friday through Monday. Should help things out just the same. I will have the firecar all ready to go, just in case. I had it running a few weeks ago. Going to pick up a couple of spark plugs and a different type of air filter.
Mike

Dana Deering replied:
Quote
So far it looks like showers off and on for Fri and Sat with clearer weather in Sun.  Doesn't look like a washout at all.

Paul C. replied:
Quote
I guess I'll check my rain gear in preperation for this weekend. How will the rain effect the "bug" situation? See you on Friday! Paul C.

Joe Fox replied:
Quote
Hopefully the rain won't effect the bug sittuation any. Will we still do track work all day, if we get the rain showers, and will the steam engine be running still? Talk to you guys later.
_________________
“We are extremely proud of our collection of historical railroad equipment, which is the largest of any U. S. railroad, especially our steam locomotives.”
-Steve Lee-

Joe

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
No bugs yet but they could pop out at any minute. The standing water is full of eggs.
Mike

Bill Sample replied:
Quote
Mike, do you or any other Maine full or part timers have any recommendations for effective fly dope for us occasional visitors?

James Patten replied:
Quote
Quote
Mike, do you or any other Maine full or part timers have any recommendations for effective fly dope for us occasional visitors?

Thick skin.

Ira Schreiber replied:
Quote
I have found Deep Woods Off to be very effective.
For the economy minded, an 18 0z. ball pein hammer is a very effective deterrent.
Ira Schreiber

MikeW replied:
Quote
The best thing I know is to keep moving and busy.

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
Ira, I thought the hammer was for the complaint department. 

As of today, I worked outside all day and still no bugs
I don't think tomorrow will bring many more out so the bugs should be at a minimum this year.
As for bug repellent, as Ira has said, Deep Woods OFF! in a spray can seems to work well. Or if you don't mind the smell, Skin so soft by Avon works too.
Mike

Ira Schreiber replied:
Quote
The hammer is for the complaint department.
You complain about the bugs, then hit them with the hammer.

Dave Buczkowski replied:
Quote
Fred has something he uses in a small bottle that is made locally. The bugs hover about an inch from your skin but don't bite. It's some guy's name. Sorry I don't remember. I've seen it at the Alna General Store. Mike is right - keep moving. As long as you are moving they don't bother you. I think Dana releases them in the morning so the track crew keeps working. The thick skin is so Stevie Two-Ties' barbs roll off your skin......

Ira Schreiber replied:
Quote
Sounds like boiled MOXIE
Ira

Paul C. replied:
Quote
OK - I'm packing my Deep Woods Off in pump bottle (environment friendly) AND a Hammer!

Wayne Laepple replied:
Quote
I dunno, guys, from what I can see of the weather forecast, we're all going to be encased in vinyl this weekend. Do  the bugs wear rainsuits in Maine?

Ira Schreiber replied:
Quote
The bugs do not wear rainsuits  and they are barefoot as it is very hard to shoo them.

Josh Botting replied:
Quote
It would be the ticks which I am concerned about.  After last weekend's warmth, I found the first one yesterday, and it was a deer tick.

Dana Deering replied:
Quote
The only flies I release are the ones that bite track workers in the butt...the others are locally grown.

Ok. and for Steve H. especially, I am going to be LATE getting to Sheepscot on Friday because my grandson decided not to come into the world earlier than expected despite his efforts do to so a couple of months ago.  My step daughter is having a c-section at 930 on Fri morning and I will be at the hospital with her.  I will get there as soon as I can.  If the rain is coming down in buckets I have given Rick and the other Section Foreman the discretion to call off outside work if it's bad.  Saturday is supposed to be better.  See you this weekend.

Dana

Joe Fox replied:
Quote
Dana,

Good luck to you and your sister in law at the hospital tomorrow. Look foward to tamping, and much more on Saturday. See you on saturday.

Joe

Mike Fox replied:
Quote
According to the latest weather report, suppose to let up as the day goes on. So if we can make it until lunch, things should improve.
Mike

Paul C. replied:
Quote
Just looked on Weather Channel site and it has showers Friday morning becoming steady rain as the day goes on but says 1/2 inch total. Also shows 30% chance of showers on Saturday and 40% chance of showers on Sunday. So I guess Rain Gear will be the order of the day. CU Fri about noon. Paul C.
PS - I noted that post times are Eastern Std vice Eastern Daylight savings as it is 6PM Thurs as I type this

Josh Botting replied:
Quote
My memory has recently been Jogged....
Last weekend on my journey to the great not so white north, at about the S. end of China Lake, I was listening to Hot & Cold on the radio, good program, if you are far enough north to get it......   Anyway, I digress, Jim Dill, UMaine antimoligist (Bug Guy), was on speaking about bugs and such, he was asked what bug sprays he recomended and used.  His report was to use any of the ones with DEET in them.  He reported that the herbal types work about as well.  He offers the students who work with him either one.  Most of them start with the herbal ones, but end up using the DEET ones after a few days.  His report was that the DEET lasts much longer than the herbal ones.  Anyway, I believe Jim.

605
Archives (Museum) / Halloween Trains
« on: December 13, 2008, 04:46:10 AM »
MODERATORS NOTE:
Halloween Trains has been converted from the pre-July 2008 WW&F Discussion Forum.
Some formatting may have been removed or modified from the original postings that appear quoted in this topic.
Information contained within this post may be superseded by more recent postings and conversations.

Allan Fisher wrote:
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The Wiscasset Student Council has agreed to supply students for set up, scary people, and take down for this year's Halloween trains. They will be setting up after school on Wednesday & Thursday, Oct 18th & 19. We will need WW&F volunteers to supervise, and on the nights that the trains run - to see to their safety.

Publicity will be in local papers and flers distributed to local schools. Wiscasset High Student Council will receive equal billing and share proceeds with the WW&F.

John McNamara replied:
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According to last year's Nov/Dec newsletter, we had 474 passengers on Friday night and 758 passengers on Saturday night. Each night we ran eight trains between 4 and 8 using a 10-3-8-320 consist. Yes, for Saturday night that means almost 100 passengers per train and roughly a train every 30 minutes! I assume from the last line of Allen's message that we are once again going to send out 2500 flyers via the schools plus the publicity in the local papers. With the additional involvement of the high school students, it seems likely that we may have even more people this year than last!

Things to consider:

1. We probably should not run-around, as that takes too much time. Further, it means equipment moves in the dark amongst dense crowds, which is more dangerous than our old custom of backing one way.

2. We may need to consider how to sell tickets to so many people - i.e. crowd control in the Museum Store may be a problem. Should we sell tickets from a table in the station doorway or out the station window?

3. We will need at least two volunteer traffic directors in reflective vests, plus possibly a paid police detail.

4. We may need another green house.

5. We might want to have some way of easily identifying volunteers in a crowd - buy some white WW&F hats for this purpose? This is both for our own convenience and to have some way of conveying authority in herding the crowds. At least we should request all volunteers to wear their gray hats.

6. We will need to have staff assisting people embarking and disembarking at Sheepscot. I assume that we will not allow people on or off at Alna Center due to time, poor lighting, etc.

7. I notice that amongst the people thanked last year were grade crossing guards. I expect that Trask is probably the only place this is required, although the rebuilding of the Averill Road probably means that there should be someone there too.

8. This is plainly an "all hands on deck" event, especially for night-qualified train crew.

All I can think of at the moment, but additions are certianly welcome.

-John

wwfmuseum replied:
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John,

Absolutely correct that we should not run around the train.  That would take too much time for us to do.

Jason and I are already on the job of thinking about how we're going to handle the two nights.  I think two trains are in order - one that goes out with a full load of people while the other one unloads and loads up.  Once the first train returns and takes the siding, the full train heads out.  That should help with crowd control.

Dana Deering replied:
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Ok, here is a wild suggestion that I am just putting out here for consideration.  Instead of running two trains how about running two locomotives?  Here's what I mean:  #10 starts out on the north end of the passenger train while 52 sits on the siding at Sheepscot.  10 pulls the train to AC and runs around up there.  10 pulls the train back to Sheepscot and sits while passengers debark and others board.  52 meanwhile runs up the siding and comes down and couples to the north end of the train.  10 is uncoupled, the train pulls out.  10 moves to the siding for servicing, etc, and 52 goes to AC and repeats the process.  Just a thought that wouid allow us to have an engine pulling all the time, since I personally feel that pulling is safer than pushing.

Dana

Wayne Laepple replied:
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Dana's idea has merit, but why not keep the operation totally simple? Run a single train pull-pull.

No. 52 pulls the train north to Alan Center, with no. 10 following the train a hundre yards behind. At Alna Center, no. 10 couples to the rear of the train, and no. 52 cuts away. No. 10 and the train goes south, with no. 52 following a hundred yards behind.

At Sheepscot, the same routine takes place in reverse. That way, there are no switches to be thrown or misaligned, no danger to the crowds and fewer opportunities for screw-ups by anyone.

John McNamara replied:
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While always a great fan of #52, I'm not convinced that it has the speed necessary to be a part of the Halloween operation. To move 200 people per hour, which is what we're talking here, we need to move a full train over the line round trip every 30 minutes.

While it is true that 10 requires some servicing time between runs, we've been pretty successful adding the necessary water and coal while the passengers are unloading and reloading.

We have never proved very speedy at coupling, uncloupling, switching, etc. To achieve the maximum number of passengers moved per hour, there should be none of those operations whatever. Further, all crowd handling should be done at the Sheepscot platform, as it is high-level and well-lit.

"Move 'em on, take 'em along, bring 'em back, unload 'em, repeat." Unfortunately, our model for this evening is not classic WW&F, it's the subway!

wwfmuseum replied:
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FYI I have moved this topic to the Event Planning area.

James P.

Dana Deering replied:
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With all due respect "we" have not been what I would call successful in servicing 10 appropriately in the time we have been given lately. especially with the 45 minute schedule and the run arounds (which I think are great because pulling in both directions is much safer!).  Ask some of the steam crews how it goes.  You are on the rush and there is not time to water completely, oil completely, and get lunch unless there is an annulled run.   I thought my idea would give the steam crew time to service 10 and not have to rush.  Haste leads to accidents and I see one coming in the near future if we don't make allowances for time.  When I am running the steam locomotive under my license I am responsible for the safe operation of that boiler and for the safety of those around it. Anyway, I will leave it to those in charge to decide, I just wanted to put in my 2 cents worth, with this caveat:  regardless of the schedule, regardless of the number of passengers who may be waiting, if I feel I need more time to tend the locomotive and boiler safely, then I will have no choice but to take it.

Steve Zuppa replied:
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Could you run the train pull/pull without uncoupling? Northbound, pull with 52 with 10 in neutral and vice-versa. You'd still have to service 10 in Sheepscot with the time allowed for detraining and boarding passengers but at least there would be no coupling moves while people are getting on and off,a practice we avoid during regular operations by clearing the train from the platform between runs.Just a thought.
Steve

Steve Zuppa replied:
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Also, what is our likely consist? 3(no brakes),8(no brakes) 118(brakes but possibly cold or wet) 320(brakes but no visibility). We may very well reach the point where we can't handle the crowds effeciently.We should have a plan "b" for that possibility, as well.
Steve
ps. I suppose we could use 118 and 320 for their braking power only and not seat passengers on them.

wwfmuseum replied:
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Jason has developed an operating plan for Halloween over the last week, and will be there tomorrow to discuss it with people.

Coach 3 will hopefully have brakes by Halloween.

Stephen Hussar replied:
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no comment

John McNamara replied:
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Comments deleted (no longer applicable)

Allan Fisher replied:
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Zack is hoping to have Car 103 ready for Halloween - he was working on it today - and Dave Hart was scrapping the floor in preparation for painting it.

Allan Fisher replied:
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There is another way top solve our problem -double the fare to $4.00 instead of the $3.00 fare we were thinking of for this year. This will keep a lot of the big families away, and solve our capacity problem while probably keeping the same or higher gross revenue (which we are going to split with the Wiscasset High Student Council)

Bill Reidy replied:
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Hi Allan,

Funny you should mention the fare -- I was looking at the Halloween PDF flyer earlier this evening and thinking $2.00 was low.

Once the 2006 fare has been decided, please let me know and I'll update the flyer.

Thanks,
Bill

Wayne Laepple replied:
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Why not extend the hours to 9 p.m., thus allowing at least one more train?

Steve Zuppa replied:
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Extending the runs to 9 o'clock probably wouldn't be too hard on Friday but remember that Saturday is a regular operating day. I think that, after running all day, having the volunteers run until 9(and not getting the train put away until almost 10) is a lot to ask. Besides, the biggest crush of passengers comes between 5:30 and 7:30 anyway.
Steve

Steve Smith replied:
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How about having No. 10 on the north end of the train and No. 52 on the south end? Wouldn't that overcome John's concern about No. 52 not having enough speed? Ishoud think No. 52 would have no problem heading the train southbound.No. 10's ash pan could be cleaned at Alna Center. Or would it be possible to erect a temporary staging on the east side of the main line at Sheepscot so the fireman could safely get to the ash pan?

Dave Olszewski replied:
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Steve's last message is good idea. How fast can No 52 go? I know No #10 go about 15 mph. I thought it would take about 10 minute for they to clean up ash then move it again. How often do they have to fill up water and clean ash? Every other trip?

What about first train run to end of track then stop at siding at Alna Station and wait for second train to run pass Alna Station to end of track.  Then they return to Sheepscot. So they may have less waiting in car for other train to pass.


Dave

Steve Smith replied:
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I forgot about the need to oil around on No. 10. The proposed staging could be long enough to allow oiling around, but there would also be the problem of light. Perhaps a volunteer could stand by to assist the engineer or fireman by holding a big flashlight. I believe the firehose is long enough so that it could easily reach the proposed servicing location.

Ira Schreiber replied:
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Allan has the right idea. raise the fare to $4.00(Still a bargain). This may reduce the numbers but definitely increase the revenue.
It is certainly worth the try and makes alot of sense.
Remember, if we have only 10 passengers and they pay$100.00 each, we have $1,000.00.
The real test is # of paying passengers, not the # of bodies.
Ira(Simple Economics)Schreiber

Josh Botting replied:
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Do not forget this weeknd is halloween trains....

Allan Fisher replied:
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Here is the final accounting for this years Halloween Trains.

Friday, October 19th - 150 paid passengers, 3 free 3 or under, 9 pass riders

Ticket revenue - $600.00
Store Sales -         93.00
Donations -           39.93

Saturday, October 20th - 14 Regular Passengers (before Halloween trains)
562 Paid Special train passengers, 52 free 3 or
under, 11 pass riders

Ticket Revenue - $2334.00
Store Sales       - $ 193.87
Donations -       - $ 229.42

For the two nights there were the following expenses paid out from revenue -

Gas for Operations - $ 47.81
Candles & lighters  - $ 13.17
Food for volunteers -$324.21

606
Original Railway / W&Q Baggage Tag on Ebay
« on: December 07, 2008, 10:56:23 PM »
Thought that this may interest some of us. I have no connection to the auction, etc.

See ebay item:
110322442634
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110322442634

607
Moderator Announcements / New Color Scheme Available (beta!)
« on: December 05, 2008, 01:38:40 PM »
Some would say that I've been having way too much fun. I'd like to think that I'm learning a useful technology for my work...

Regardless, I made an attempt to make this discussion forum match the color scheme of the main WW&F web site. This morning, somehow everyone's scheme was set that way - I have switched everyone back. But since the cat is now out of the bag, I'll take opinions. (Even if it is "Ugh, I hate it." - I can take it.)

To switch to the new scheme:
Open "Profile"
Under "Modify Profile", choose "Look and Layout Preferences"
Where it says "Current Theme: Forum or Board Default (change)" - click (change)
Click "Erva Theme"

If the consensus is to scrap it, fine. I like it, but that's just me. Or, maybe we can take some of the ideas and move them to the default theme. Or, we could allow both options.

It's your forum, tell me how you like it.

-Ed

608
Moderator Announcements / Smileys? Yea or Nay
« on: December 03, 2008, 03:51:45 AM »
With access to the back end of this forum, I can make a number of customizations. One that I have been considering is to disable "emoticons" or "smileys". For example:
 :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :-[ :P :-X :-\ :-* :'(

I'm personally not a big fan of them (and frankly find anything but a simple :-) rather annoying.)

But, I wanted to get the opinions of others in our online community.

Some other options I could disable include:
Glowing Text
And
Animated Banners
Thoughts?

609
Museum Discussion / Roster of Surviving Maine 2' Locomotives
« on: December 02, 2008, 06:47:18 PM »
I thought it might be helpful to the newer members of our hobby to give a brief rundown of what locomotives were whose and where they are now. Corrections from our more knowledgeable members are welcome.

SD Warren #1
While technically not a true Maine two footer, #1 operated at the SD Warren Paper mill in Westbrook, ME. (Just outside of Portland.) SD Warren had a decent network of two foot gauge track in its plant, as well as a few locomotives. After the plant abandoned the 2' railway locomotive #1 was sold for use at an amusement park. The park decided to gut the locomotive, and install a gasoline powered engine. The locomotive was eventually sold to Boothbay Railway Village, where it is on display (under cover) with a number of Maine narrow gauge cars.
See: http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=1709

SD Warren #2
Like it's sister #1, #2 also operated at the SD Warren Paper mill in Westbrook, shared a similar fate, being sold to the amusement park, gutted, and eventually sold to Boothbay Railway Village. It is on display at the entrance to BRV, incorporated into a sign that offers some shelter.
See: http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=1710

Monson #3
This loco operated at the Monson Railroad in Monson, ME. The Monson was the last of the two-footers to be scrapped. By some twist of fate, the 2 locomotives (#3 and #4) were not scrapped along with the rest of the line, instead they were shipped to New York state for storage. Ellis D. Atwood (the founder of Edaville railroad) learned of the two locomotives, purchased them, and ran them at Edaville. After Edaville's equipment was sold to the Maine Narrow Gauge Museum in Portland, #3 has become their ambassador. You could find it steaming on the Portland waterfront, or on one of its visits to the WW&F, Monson, or Bedford and Billerica. (The latter two having short stretches of demonstration track.) #3 is now on long term lease to the Sandy River railroad. However, it needs repairs which are now underway at Boothbay Railway Village.
See: http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=572
See: http://www.srrl-rr.org/Projects/Monson_3/Monson_3.htm

Monson #4
Basically the same story as #3, except that it remains as the main workhorse at Maine Narrow Gauge in Portland. I believe that this is the only two-footer that is "certified" by the FRA for use on FRA regulated lines. (MNG is regulated by the FRA, all other operations are not, currently.)
See: http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=566

B&H #7
Following its carrer at the Bridgton and Harrison (or Bridgton and Saco River,) #7 was sold to Ellis D. Atwood for his Edaville Railroad. After some delay for reasons not clear to this writer, the locomotive eventually joined the collection at Maine Narrow Gauge in Portland. This locomotive is loved by many as their favorite of the surviving two-footers. It has been run occasionally in Portland, but a major overhaul is now needed. This overhaul is underway by volunteers at Maine Narrow Gauge, with the boilerwork to be done at a site near the WW&F shops and home of one of the craftsmen of Boothbay Railway Village.
See: http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=576
See: http://www.mngrr.org/engine7.html

B&H #8
Like #7, it went from the B&H to Edaville to Maine Narrow Gauge. It requires work to be brought into FRA compliance before it can be run again. It is also the largest surviving Maine two-foot locomotive, and as such, not particularly economical to operate under normal conditions.
http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=577

WW&F #9
The most storied locomotive of all of the Maine two footers. I'm not going to retype all of its history. It is well documented at the following links:
http://www.wwfry.org/history/equipment/histloco.html#loco-9
http://www.wwfry.org/projects/9rebuild.html
http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=3870
One interesting fact is that this was the last 2 footer to have its original boiler. (All of the Edaville locos were reboilered - with the original boilers scrapped.) This is why the WW&F museum is preserving #9's original boiler, to be incorporated into a future display about the locomotive.

Honorable Mentions go to:
WW&F #10
Originally a 30" locomotive, WW&F #10 began its life at a Louisiana sugar plantation. Edaville purchased it, regauged it to 24", gave it the number 5, and used it at the Pleasure Island Amusement Park in Wakefield, MA. When Pleasure Island closed, it returned to Edaville and remained in storage. Eventually it was purchased by the WW&F and given the #10, since #9 was the last locomotive on the historic WW&F roster. After a thorough rebuild, it is the current workhorse at the WW&F museum.
See: http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=574

WW&F #11
To be designed and built by the volunteers of the WW&F railroad upon the completion of #9's overhaul. It is to be a replica of the original railroad's #7. A few small parts have already been constructed, including wheel centers for the leading truck, the headlight, and the bell.

Sandy River #4
While not a steamer (some would call it a "steam outline,") its construction in the 1970s marked an important milestone in the two-foot preservation movement in Maine.
http://www.srrl-rr.org/Projects/Loco_4/Loco_4.htm

Boothbay Railway Village
They have 4 two-foot locomotives - but were originally from overseas. Because they have been part of the two-foot scene in Maine for so long, it is only fair to include them as part of our family.
http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=618
http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=619
http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=620
http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=621
http://www.railwayvillage.org/roster.html

610
Museum Discussion / 60# rail located in Mass.
« on: November 30, 2008, 03:43:16 AM »
I was scouting around today on a line that is abandoned, but was not removed. It is the old Boston & Lowell branch to Lawrence. The rails survive from Wamaset (Near Lowell) to Tewksbury Center - but haven't seen a train in 20+ years.

Unfortunately, the main line does not have 60# rail.

However, at the end of the line in Tewksbury Center, there is a siding that appears (to my untrained eyes) to be 60#. The base of the rail is 4" across and the height is 4". (The mainline is 5" x 5".) I paced out about 150' of track.

I have no idea who owns the ROW (it may be the town) and access will have to involve cutting 20-30 years of growth, etc. There is a dirt road parallel to most of the track, however, and it runs behind the parking lots of several businesses.

Ok, I found it. Now what?

611
Moderator Announcements / Link to WW&F home page
« on: November 29, 2008, 04:52:15 AM »
Ok, now I'm starting to get pretty geeky...

Back on the old forum, someone had asked if we could make an easy link from the forum to the main museum home page. Tonight I figured out how to do that.

You can now click on the drawing of #9 in the top left corner (or the "WW&F Discussion Forum" in the top right corner) and it will bring you to the main web page.

Enjoy,

-Ed

612
Moderator Announcements / Automated Spam Check/New Member Verification
« on: November 29, 2008, 04:11:00 AM »
Hi All,

Over the last month or so, this forum has been attacked nearly 900 times by spambots trying to post ads for pharmaceuticals and inappropriate material. To keep this garbage out of our online community, James and I have used a manual process. While it takes only a few seconds to verify each potential member, it is inconvinent for everyone.

Tonight I implemented a change to the source code for the discussion forum that is supposed to automatically reject any known spammer who tries to join us. Hopefully, this will work very well. However, if anyone has trouble logging on or joining the forum, please email me at ed@spongeawareness.com or forumadmin@wwfry.org.

Thanks,

-Ed

613
Moderator Announcements / Headlight Message Indicators
« on: November 26, 2008, 04:55:26 PM »
I'm specifically looking for a good, straight head on picture of #10's front (or more specifically, headlight.) I want two pictures, one with the light lit, one with it off. I don't care about anything else, so long as the picture is straight, head-on to the front of the engine.

If you have something, please email it to me at ed@spongeawareness.com.

This will be used for a new graphic for the forum...

615
Moderator Announcements / Spam Attack
« on: November 11, 2008, 01:46:05 PM »
Hi all,

At 1:43am, EST the WW&F forum received its first spam/inaproppriate posting. By 8:00am it had been removed.

I call this out for a few reasons:
1. To thank those who reported it to the Forum admins.

2. To remind everyone that while we do have good security in-place, it is not perfect - so please be aware that if a post looks funny - it just might be - and don't click on any links from that post.

3. It is much easier for James and I to keep track of these things if everyone uses their real name (or close proximity like "Ed L") as the display name in the forum. Directions on how to set this up (if you haven't done so already) is in this thread:
http://forum.wwfry.org/index.php?topic=3.0

Let me know if you have trouble setting up your display name - I will be happy to set it for you.

Thanks,

-Ed Lecuyer
Asst. Moderator, WW&F Discussion Forum

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