W.W.&F. Discussion Forum

Worldwide Narrow Gauges => UK (Welsh, British) Two Footers => Topic started by: Philip Marshall on October 28, 2019, 04:17:25 AM

Title: Ffestiniog Railway Victorian Weekend 2019 video
Post by: Philip Marshall on October 28, 2019, 04:17:25 AM
The Ffestiniog & Welsh Highland Railways have posted a video of their 2019 Victorian Vintage Weekend that I think is one of the best FR videos on Youtube I've ever seen. It includes a cab ride on Blanche as well as various vintage consists pulled by Prince, Palmerston, Taliesin, Merddin Emrys, and David Lloyd George, and not one but two gravity trains! The venerable Princess also makes an appearance in a photo lineup at Harbour Station, though not under steam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DybZUY64PlQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DybZUY64PlQ)
Title: Re: Ffestiniog Railway Victorian Weekend 2019 video
Post by: Bill Baskerville on October 28, 2019, 02:26:12 PM
Boy, those Brits are rugged.  They operate their locomotives without the benefit of gloves.
Title: Re: Ffestiniog Railway Victorian Weekend 2019 video
Post by: James Patten on October 28, 2019, 03:04:31 PM
Or cab roofs, in some cases.
Title: Re: Ffestiniog Railway Victorian Weekend 2019 video
Post by: Roger Cole on October 28, 2019, 04:01:21 PM
Great video!  A few obvious differences between Welsh & USA two-footers.

FRR runs it's trains at higher speeds (I would guess 30mph).
The Welsh engines have lots of polished brass "jewelry".
The engines are built for fresh-air enthusiasts.  Of course, they don't have Maine style winters.
Safety - I'm surprised they allow individuals to ride on the top edge of the slate cars (no OHSA).
The double Fairlie has two fireboxes to feed from the side
They use "tokens" for dispatching trains
All the engines are painted (rarely black) and spotlessly kept clean
They don't use knuckle couplers and I don't remember seeing spring buffers as on UK standard gauge
Title: Re: Ffestiniog Railway Victorian Weekend 2019 video
Post by: Bob Holmes on October 28, 2019, 10:40:19 PM
And the track is maintained to the highest level.  It also looks like the rail is substantial.  Does anyone know how heavy?
Title: Re: Ffestiniog Railway Victorian Weekend 2019 video
Post by: John L Dobson on October 29, 2019, 09:35:49 PM
And the track is maintained to the highest level.  It also looks like the rail is substantial.  Does anyone know how heavy?

The current standard rail on both the Ffestiniog and the Welsh Highland is new 30kg/metre (almost exactly 60lb/yard) rolled in Poland, installed on cast steel baseplates on recycled-plastic sleepers (ties) with deep granite ballast. However, the Ffestiniog main line still contains a considerable amount of former War Department (WW2 standard) rail of 75lb/yard which was bought secondhand from the 1970s until fairly recently, this is largely on wooden sleepers with baseplates. This rail came from munitions depots and similar military establishments when they closed, or gave up their rail connections.

The maximum line speed is 25mph.
Title: Re: Ffestiniog Railway Victorian Weekend 2019 video
Post by: John L Dobson on October 29, 2019, 09:42:22 PM
Great video!  A few obvious differences between Welsh & USA two-footers.

FRR runs it's trains at higher speeds (I would guess 30mph).
The Welsh engines have lots of polished brass "jewelry".
The engines are built for fresh-air enthusiasts.  Of course, they don't have Maine style winters.
Safety - I'm surprised they allow individuals to ride on the top edge of the slate cars (no OHSA).
The double Fairlie has two fireboxes to feed from the side
They use "tokens" for dispatching trains
All the engines are painted (rarely black) and spotlessly kept clean
They don't use knuckle couplers and I don't remember seeing spring buffers as on UK standard gauge

Both the FR and WHR use Norwegian 'chopper' couplings with a cam system to hold the coupling faces together on locomotives and passenger carriages. All of these couplings are sprung. The FR uses the Miniature Electric Train Staff (METS) to control train movements (there are also a couple of full-size electric train staff machines at intermediate boxes). The WHR currently uses staff and ticket, but is being converted to METS.
Title: Re: Ffestiniog Railway Victorian Weekend 2019 video
Post by: Bill Baskerville on October 29, 2019, 10:14:14 PM
Great video!  A few obvious differences between Welsh & USA two-footers.

... Safety - I'm surprised they allow individuals to ride on the top edge of the slate cars (no OHSA).
...

I may be wrong, but in looking at the attire of the men riding on the sides of the loaded cars, and the folks who were riding inside empty cars, it appears the former were workers.  The side riders also had cushions s that appeared to be similar.  That would explain their comfort riding on the sides.  Also, on a few of the cars I noticed a lever sticking up from the same side of the car.  Could they be brake levers?  That would explain why they were riding on loaded cars.
Title: Re: Ffestiniog Railway Victorian Weekend 2019 video
Post by: James Patten on October 29, 2019, 10:19:55 PM
John,

New rolled Polish rail - as in brand new, rolled in the 2000s, or "new to you"?

If brand new - is there more?  And how much did it cost?  Of course shipping would be an issue!
Title: Re: Ffestiniog Railway Victorian Weekend 2019 video
Post by: Dave Crow on October 29, 2019, 10:32:56 PM
James,

Yes, brand new rail.  I remember avidly reading the progress of the reconstruction of the WHR and reading about the delivery of the new rail from Poland.

Dave Crow
Title: Re: Ffestiniog Railway Victorian Weekend 2019 video
Post by: John L Dobson on October 30, 2019, 10:54:11 AM
Great video!  A few obvious differences between Welsh & USA two-footers.

... Safety - I'm surprised they allow individuals to ride on the top edge of the slate cars (no OHSA).
...

I may be wrong, but in looking at the attire of the men riding on the sides of the loaded cars, and the folks who were riding inside empty cars, it appears the former were workers.  The side riders also had cushions s that appeared to be similar.  That would explain their comfort riding on the sides.  Also, on a few of the cars I noticed a lever sticking up from the same side of the car.  Could they be brake levers?  That would explain why they were riding on loaded cars.

The people riding on the loaded waggons are brakemen – the levers you can see on the side of some of the waggons are handbrake levers. The person-in-charge of the gravity train rides on the front waggon and will signal for brakes using a trumpet. This is historically correct and is the way that gravity slate trains were controlled from the 1830s to the 1940s. We continue with the demonstration runs using 'grandfather rights'.
Title: Re: Ffestiniog Railway Victorian Weekend 2019 video
Post by: John L Dobson on October 30, 2019, 10:57:55 AM
James,

Yes, brand new rail.  I remember avidly reading the progress of the reconstruction of the WHR and reading about the delivery of the new rail from Poland.

Dave Crow

Yes, it's brand-new rail, rolled to a specification used in the mining industry. We have shared orders with other heritage railways in the past to reduce costs.
Title: Re: Ffestiniog Railway Victorian Weekend 2019 video
Post by: Bill Baskerville on October 30, 2019, 07:08:48 PM
Great video!  A few obvious differences between Welsh & USA two-footers.

... Safety - I'm surprised they allow individuals to ride on the top edge of the slate cars (no OHSA).
...

I may be wrong, but in looking at the attire of the men riding on the sides of the loaded cars, and the folks who were riding inside empty cars, it appears the former were workers.  The side riders also had cushions s that appeared to be similar.  That would explain their comfort riding on the sides.  Also, on a few of the cars I noticed a lever sticking up from the same side of the car.  Could they be brake levers?  That would explain why they were riding on loaded cars.

The people riding on the loaded waggons are brakemen – the levers you can see on the side of some of the waggons are handbrake levers. The person-in-charge of the gravity train rides on the front waggon and will signal for brakes using a trumpet. This is historically correct and is the way that gravity slate trains were controlled from the 1830s to the 1940s. We continue with the demonstration runs using 'grandfather rights'.
Very interesting.  I wonder if "grandfather rights" would carry any weight here with FRA when we, at some unknown future time, cross a road.  Probably not since the tracks will have been torn up for more than more than 85 years.