W.W.&F. Discussion Forum

WW&F Railway Museum Discussion => Museum Discussion => Topic started by: Brian Strait on February 25, 2019, 10:09:03 PM

Title: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Brian Strait on February 25, 2019, 10:09:03 PM
I have been sitting here, thinking.  Now that's normally a dangerous thing to be happening.  No idea if this is one of those times.  In this case i was thinking about ways to get the passenger car back to being stored inside.  There is a lot of space on the middle car barn track between the box and the railbus. If we took the railbus off the tracks and stuck it between the different tracks (kind of like that piece of machinery next to the flanger) could the stuff the caboose, box, and passenger car all on that track?
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: John Kokas on February 25, 2019, 10:19:56 PM
Maybe like minds are thinking again.  Was having the same thoughts;  if we need 'high density" storage for the next couple of years, have we examined the option of installing a couple of temp switches on tracks #1 & #3 and running two extra storage tracks for equipment that we coupld consider "skinny"?  Or at least one extra track.  Just think'in out loud - and realizing this would be a temporary fix.
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Brian Strait on February 25, 2019, 10:26:32 PM
I think the long term plan is the expansion of the car barn, this year?  And I thought that the rail car would be good because it has that inbuilt lifting mechanism, and is thin.  it would by no means be a good long term plan but it would be nice to keep the refurbished stuff from languishing outside while storage is expanded.
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Mike Fox on February 26, 2019, 01:30:51 PM
There really isn't room between the tracks to store carts, and would take a lot of extra effort. The shortage of storage is only temporary. We should have room next winter to put things back under cover.

There is also a plan to add a track for the 4 wheeled cars and other storage. Once this is completed, along with the addition, the storage can get sorted out..
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Pete "Cosmo" Barrington on February 26, 2019, 10:42:58 PM
Golly...  :o
we're gonna have one HECK of a yard when it's all said and done!!  :-*
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Bill Baskerville on February 27, 2019, 03:59:11 PM
... There is also a plan to add a track for the 4 wheeled cars and other storage. Once this is completed, along with the addition, the storage can get sorted out..

Mike, Does this mean that the track for the 4 wheeled cars will be under cover or just on the proposed track to between the garage and the restrooms?
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Mike Fox on February 27, 2019, 09:12:02 PM
We started talking well over a year ago, and Jason had a fantastic idea for a frogless switch for the lighter equipment. This would have enabled a small addition to the west side of the car barn to cover the carts, and things like spare trucks.

But, now a revised old idea has resurfaced. Some of us had talked about a track against the tree line, just loosely, and now there is a plan to put that track in eventually, with room at the end of the track to display a car next to the restroom. But we have some underground drainage to install before the track can go in..
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Ken Fleming on March 01, 2019, 01:32:45 AM
Maybe we could use a Chinese one point switch for 4 wheel cars.
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Gary Kraske on March 01, 2019, 02:07:18 AM
[quote Ken Fleming
Maybe we could use a Chinese one point switch for 4 wheel cars.
[/quote]
Please educate me!
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Bill Baskerville on March 01, 2019, 11:26:51 AM
[quote Ken Fleming
Maybe we could use a Chinese one point switch for 4 wheel cars.

Please educate me!
[/quote]
Single point switches are common in street trolley tracks.  One of these is from a 2 footer in New Zealand (I think).

We would still need guard rails at the frog, but wouldn't need any additional track work at the point other than careful machining of the point.
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Graham Buxton on March 01, 2019, 12:29:32 PM
Chris Walker (a regular at the Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum)  has a backyard 18" gauge railroad (in New Zealand) and uses a variety of temporary track switches.   Some of those are rather interesting for occasional  use switches.   

One of his "switches" is this temporary turntable: https://flic.kr/p/HhjdZA (https://flic.kr/p/HhjdZA)

Note that the "mainline" track is not cut or altered to use the "switch", as it simply sits on top of the existing track. My understanding is that turntable is simply moved either out of the way (to pass by on the original track), or to a new location as desired.

Even though a similar WWF  24" track turntable would be heavier, it should still be relatively easy to place/remove with sufficient hands, or a forklift, loader, Ichabod, etc.

Chris has a lot of other photos of his railroad on Flickr, here: https://www.flickr.com/people/99808406@N07/ (https://www.flickr.com/people/99808406@N07/)
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Wayne Laepple on March 01, 2019, 01:50:10 PM
I remember several years ago, before the runaround at Sheepscot was completed. The former team track/shop 1 track frog was removed and used at another location. A short piece of rail was inserted in place of the frog and had to be moved from one place to the other depending on which track needed to be accessed. If the proposed track up along the restroom building will only be used occasionally, that may be a solution.

The other option would be a "jump over" rail. Basically, a short piece of rail with the base and web cut out, leaving only the head. It would fit over the stock rail as needed mating to the curved stock rail and the outer rail without the need of a frog. It just depends on the amount of traffic going over the switch whether a jump-over or a fill-in rail or a frog would be the best solution.
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Gary Kraske on March 01, 2019, 03:13:36 PM
Thank you Bill, Graham and Wayne!!
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Mike Fox on March 01, 2019, 03:18:36 PM
I think it will have its own switch. You never know what will be on that storage track, and if you had to switch it out, much easier with an actual switch. But all that is just the finer details..

Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Bill Baskerville on March 01, 2019, 06:37:09 PM
I agree.  It would be nice not to go through a year or so of unbolting and re-bolting track, or using angle iron on 2x3's as switch points like we did for the woods track and track 2 & 3 when we first built the north yard.
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Wayne Laepple on March 01, 2019, 06:51:21 PM
I do not know whether we have another frog and pair of points on hand, but I am pretty sure that Dave Crow and I will be unable to manufacture more at The Baltimore Streetcar Museum shop. Do any of our new machines have the capability to machine the necessary parts?

I think the unanswered question at this point is how the proposed track will be used. If it's only for placing some piece of rolling stock on display, storage of basket cases and parking for work equipment, that's one thing. But if it's to be a track in regular use for switching or moving equipment in and out, that's another. What's the answer?
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: John Kokas on March 01, 2019, 07:02:19 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe on another thread that it was stated we had a source for new frogs and switchpoints available to us now.  If true, then we should look at the switch with the most wear and replace it and use the old switch for the misc. stuff track.
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Dave Crow on March 01, 2019, 07:33:35 PM
Actually, I think there are still parts for a third 33# frog (we made three of them), and we had bent rail for a fifth switch point; we ran out of time to machine it in Baltimore.  Jason and crew were supposed to make the 6th point so that longer points could be installed to replace the "mine rail" points going into Bay 1, I believe.

Dave Crow
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Wayne Laepple on March 01, 2019, 07:36:40 PM
There are plenty of shops around that manufacture switch points and frogs. The difficulty is in finding one that can work with the smaller rail sections that we use. 33, 40 and even 60-pound rail is pretty much obsolete in the real world. The last time I needed to get us 60-pound switch components, I had to try three places before I found one with the necessary capabilities.
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Dave Crow on March 02, 2019, 04:57:16 PM
We could probably machine another set of 33# points here in Baltimore, but the rails would have to be delivered pre-bent, ready to machine.  Several of us would have to do a marathon weekend, machining through the night, so we only use the 8-foot mill for one weekend.  A lot of time was lost when we had to set up and take down the clamps and rail at the beginning and end of each machining day that Wayne and I had at the shop.  Most of the machine steps for the points, if done straight through, could be accomplished in 8-10 hours per point.

Dave Crow
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Bill Baskerville on March 02, 2019, 09:41:02 PM
If we can find, make or buy a new set of points and frog we could put them where the mine set is by the water tank. The mine set could then be used for the new siding off the woods track.   The main line and run around track would then have a smoother route.
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Paul Uhland on March 02, 2019, 10:19:41 PM
Apparently, a new spur, off the woods track, will be built between the car barn and the restroom building. What for?
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Mike Fox on March 02, 2019, 10:44:51 PM
Storage Paul. We have worked around the lack of storage since we got rid of "track 7". This used to be our catch all. Now the Woods Track is, and every time something comes and goes, everything had to be moved. The new track will help solve that problem.

Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on March 03, 2019, 11:21:21 AM
Could a stub switch be used? It would elminate the need for points.

Jeff S.
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Mike Fox on March 03, 2019, 01:07:37 PM
That would be up to the Track Department..
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: Ted Miles on March 04, 2019, 10:12:56 PM
Whatever choices of track are used, I hope the Rangeley parlor car is given indoor storage when it arrives from Portland. It is a one of a kind parlor car from 1902. I saw it at Edaville and later in the Portland Company Building. It is a two-foot treasure.

Ted Miles, WW&F Life Member since 1990.
Title: Re: Getting the passenger car back inside
Post by: James Patten on March 05, 2019, 07:57:12 AM
Rest assured, it will be.  It's going into Bay 4 (wood shop) first if it gets here before the car barn is ready.