W.W.&F. Discussion Forum

General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Roger Cole on December 13, 2018, 06:46:34 PM

Title: New York City film - 1911
Post by: Roger Cole on December 13, 2018, 06:46:34 PM
An interesting "slice of life" in the better part of New York City taken in 1911.  Featuring transportation modes of the day - horse-drawn vehicles, early automobiles, streetcars, electric commuter trains & steam-powered ferries.  Note how everyone seems to be dressed up and slim compared to today.

https://www.facebook.com/thevintagenews/videos/1946985898931342/UzpfSTE5MzMzMDA3MTI3ODoxMDE1NjA5Nzc3NDQzMTI3OQ/
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: Philip Marshall on December 13, 2018, 07:08:05 PM
Here is a longer version of the same film that begins on a Brooklyn-Manhattan ferry boat crossing the East River:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aohXOpKtns0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aohXOpKtns0)

It was taken by the Swedish company Svenska Biografteatern on a visit to the US and is now in the collection of the Museum of Modern Art in NY.
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: Wayne Laepple on December 13, 2018, 07:34:38 PM
Here's some film of the original West Side freight line in New York City, prior to the building of the so-called High Line. Check out the brakemen on the roof of high cars! And notice the enclosed locomotive, either a Climax or a Shay "dummy", shrouded so as not to scare the horses! At one time, a man on horseback carrying a red flag was required by regulation to precede each train in the street.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4o3TmAMvHo
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: Philip Marshall on December 13, 2018, 07:50:37 PM
That's a great video, Wayne. I especially love the engineer hamming it up for the camera at 4:28. (Also, note the two whistle blasts at 4:54. The sound in the second half of the video is original, not dubbed!) It also makes it clear why the City of New York insisted the New York Central elevate the line, as a matter of public safety.
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: John Stone on December 13, 2018, 11:46:00 PM
Fascinating stuff! Did you notice the brakemen on the cartops, passing signals for kicking cars! Takes some real sea legs for that!
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: Bill Baskerville on December 14, 2018, 03:35:47 AM
Great videos.  I noticed that the street cars had three types of locomotion.  Underground cable, overhead electric and third rail electric.  It looked like the third rail lines were for longer trains and distances.  Interesting.
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: Steve Smith on December 14, 2018, 04:26:03 AM
Great to see that walking beam on what was probably a ferry boat. At least one of the Hudson River Dayline ships plying the Hudson River between New York City and destinations such as Bear Mountain, Poughkeepsie and Albany also had a walking beam. Another had a three-cylinder compound engine with the cylinder axes horizontal and their connecting rods directly driving the horizontal paddlewheel shaft. I have fond memories of the Dayline trips made by my high school junior and senior classes in 1945 and 1946. Would somebody on the Forum know when the Hudson River Dayline quit using steam power? 
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: Philip Marshall on December 14, 2018, 05:02:53 AM
The last Hudson River Day Line steamboat, the Alexander Hamilton, was in service until 1971.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_Alexander_Hamilton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_Alexander_Hamilton)

A nice history of the company can be found here: https://newyorkhistoryblog.org/2017/02/a-short-history-of-the-hudson-river-day-line/
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: Stephen Piwowarski on December 14, 2018, 05:49:18 AM
There is an effort afoot to restore Day Line-type service under a heritage organization using one of the steamboats that once served Boblo Island amusement park in Michigan.
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: Carl G. Soderstrom on December 14, 2018, 06:35:21 AM
MFIL dressed up to go into town just to get parts - into the 1980s

The center rail pickup on the trolley used a J shoe with the hot rail covered on top -
I know I was a curious kid. Broadway above 181st St anyway.

Brooklyn had electric buses till at least late 50s - 2 wire overhead trolley pick up.

The Staten Island Ferry was always a Nickle - it was in their charter.

Took a Day Line class trip to Bear Mtn. in '53 or '54 - 5th or 6th grade. Even then the
engine was more interesting than "outside". That was a walking beam side wheeler though I
do not remember her name.

The "boxcab" may have had Winton engine, not steam - or did I miss that?

Poor Traffic Cop breathing lead all day. Not to say trusting the cars behind him not to hit him.

Thanks for posting :-)
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: James Patten on December 14, 2018, 12:19:40 PM
Some of the trucks look pretty interesting (ie, unique).
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: Bill Baskerville on December 14, 2018, 02:45:22 PM
I also noticed that the roads around the rails were pretty rough.  Lots of bouncing around in the vehicles and with the loads.
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: Keith Taylor on December 14, 2018, 03:26:22 PM


The "boxcab" may have had Winton engine, not steam - or did I miss that?



The “Box Cab” is a Shay steam locomotive. The New York Central had several Shay specifically for use in New York City,
Keith
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: Philip Marshall on December 14, 2018, 03:49:34 PM
The dummy locomotive at the beginning of Wayne's video and then again at 2:12 looks like a Shay, but I think the one at 3:40 may be a rod engine, perhaps an 0-4-0T. (Does anyone have a NYC roster handy to verify the identity of engine No. 1904?)
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: Gordon Cook on December 14, 2018, 05:55:28 PM
I was immediately struck by the lack of autos in the 1911 film and prevalence of horse drawn vehicles. The 1929 film shows traffic that's more like we know today. The combination of horse droppings and car exhaust must have been a real treat.  :-X
It's a good illustration of the transition in transportation technology that was happening 100 years ago and led to the demise of the Maine two-footers among many, many other changes.
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: Benjamin Richards on December 14, 2018, 07:00:48 PM
Does anyone have a NYC roster handy to verify the identity of engine No. 1904?

Nothing for 1904, "...but [the NYC's] 1940 roster listed five Shay type locomotives, Nos. 7185-7189 (originally numbered 1896-1900). " So that's likely not a Shay.
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: Keith Taylor on December 14, 2018, 07:03:09 PM
The NYC had several 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 switchers with full cabs to use as steam dummies in NYC.
Also...bear in mind that the NYC re-numbered locomotives over the years.

Keith
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: John Stone on December 14, 2018, 07:49:56 PM
I would guess that #1904 is an 0-6-0t, judging by the view of the backhead as they clear the crossing. There's no tender on the frame, as the Shays have, and the boiler appears to be centered, rather than shifted to the left to accomodate Shay cylinders, valve gear and drive shafts. Such a cool movie! Real gritty!
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: Benjamin Richards on December 14, 2018, 08:29:12 PM
A more thorough search turned up that #10 was indeed renumbered to #1904, probably in 1922 along with the rest of them. The exact details of the locos seem to vary based on which website you visit, but the wheel arrangement is at least undisputed.

https://www.steamlocomotive.com/locobase.php?country=USA&wheel=0-6-0&railroad=nyc#16251
https://orion.math.iastate.edu/jdhsmith/term/slusnyc.htm
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: Carl G. Soderstrom on December 15, 2018, 06:31:18 AM
Thanks Keith
Title: Re: New York City film - 1911
Post by: John Stone on December 20, 2018, 09:56:00 AM
Found this on Northeast Railfan.net. Appears to be a scrap line at Harmon,NY, dated 1933. 1910 is on the right.