W.W.&F. Discussion Forum

WW&F Railway Museum Discussion => Museum Discussion => Topic started by: Jeff Schumaker on October 19, 2018, 02:39:14 PM

Title: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on October 19, 2018, 02:39:14 PM
Will there ever be a siding to Brian's shop, so cars can be transferred by rail, rather than being trucked back and forth?

Jeff S.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: James Patten on October 19, 2018, 03:42:23 PM
Jason wants to put one in this fall.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: ALAIN DELASSUS on October 20, 2018, 07:00:16 AM
Hello ! I'm still a newbie or I've miss something out because of my failing memory but please who is Brian Fanslau?
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Mike Fox on October 20, 2018, 09:25:51 AM
Hello ! I'm still a newbie or I've miss something out because of my failing memory but please who is Brian Fanslau?
Brian is the owner of Maine Locomotive and Machine. He is also an abutter, and has built his shop where putting track into it from ours is a possibility. He has been very generous with his equipment. And we could benefit from having trackage to him.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: ALAIN DELASSUS on October 20, 2018, 11:41:20 AM
Thanks Mike. Where is his shop located ?
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Bill Baskerville on October 20, 2018, 02:38:37 PM
Alain,

Go to Google Maps, click on satellite and go a little north of the power line crossing.

Here is the link that should work:

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.0717924,-69.6223435,245m/data=!3m1!1e3

Brian's home is on the East (right) side of the tracks and his shop is on the left side.  His building is angled toward our tracks and the plan is to place a switch a little north of his road crossing. 

This would be the first industry (other than ours) connected to our tracks. 

Bill
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Joe Fox on October 20, 2018, 02:55:29 PM
It is also important for everyone to understand that all of our abuting land owners are very generous, and are private property. As such please refrain from driving down their private roads or driveways. Thank you.

Joe
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Paul Uhland on October 20, 2018, 03:30:56 PM
Glad you want to quickly put in a spur to Brian's business, makes total sense.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: ALAIN DELASSUS on October 20, 2018, 05:31:44 PM
Thank you so much Bill. Earth is a wonderful tool I often use. Now I do remember the rebirth of # 7 on the Easterexpress day. A spur at that place would sure enough be a good idea .
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on October 20, 2018, 06:36:14 PM
Jason wants to put one in this fall.

Is Brian on board with that?

Jeff S.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on October 20, 2018, 11:18:59 PM
Will Brian be assisting with the siding installation?

Jeff S.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Mike Fox on October 20, 2018, 11:30:05 PM
Brian is taking care of all grading. We will work with Brian as much as possible.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Bill Reidy on October 21, 2018, 01:04:01 AM
A museum survey crew went out yesterday to identify where the switch will go.  This view was taken this afternoon just north of the Sheepscot Mills crossing looking north (note the whistle post in the distance on the left, as well as the white paint marks on the ties and ballast.  Word in the gauge is "frog.").
(https://i.imgur.com/Syqk2HY.jpg)

View was taken from Brian's open car on train #8 southbound around 12.40 p.m. today. 
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on October 21, 2018, 04:39:33 PM
I take it that the painted ties need to be removed. Is that in a logical spot for the switch?

Jeff S.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Carl G. Soderstrom on October 23, 2018, 04:56:28 AM
Will it be a full switch? Or just points and elevated rail to cross the main
sort of like the one on the B&B (?)
Being that there will be minimal traffic.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Joe Fox on October 23, 2018, 11:26:37 AM
It will be a full switch. Raised rails seems interesting, but I wouldn't di it on a main line. Maybe for light weight cars only, but raised rails can be bad news. Which is why gaurd rails are a smaller size than running rails on bridges.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Benjamin Campbell on October 23, 2018, 02:45:22 PM
I imagine a derail will be in order here?
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Bill Baskerville on October 23, 2018, 03:19:05 PM
I have been told that a derail will be installed.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Paul Uhland on October 23, 2018, 03:47:06 PM
Is installation planned before the snow flies over Sheepscot?
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: James Patten on October 23, 2018, 04:02:20 PM
Planned before snow flies, but snow has been flying mighty early in northern Maine so the snow may fly before that happens.  Jason was hoping for mid-November.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Paul Uhland on October 23, 2018, 07:27:05 PM
Bet youz guyz could knock this out in a weekend!  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Joe Fox on October 23, 2018, 08:37:25 PM
Switch will be installed in the next few weeks. The spur will have a split point derail. Those unfamiliar it is a single point that allows the wheels to enter a half switch causing the equipment to derail. It is more effective than a regular derail which can break off or fall off if the ties are junk.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Bill Baskerville on October 23, 2018, 09:03:01 PM
Joe,

I take it from your note we will have a single point derail and not a two point derail.  Either will require a switch stand.
 On the west side of the derail?

Bill
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Joe Fox on October 23, 2018, 09:57:50 PM
Yes, single point is all you really need. The objective is to drop the wheels just outside the rail so that it does minimal track damage. I am guessing the stand would be on the west side, but it could be on either depending on its final location.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Bill Baskerville on October 23, 2018, 10:45:48 PM
I guess we could always put the derail two or three car lengths away from the fouling point, but withing our 66' right of way.   That would give us a serviceable siding for parking cars or equipment either storage or a MOW hiding place when working on the track in that area when scheduled trains are running.  Since we are adding more cars to our refurbishment Que we could use an extra siding on which to park cars.  The mainline railroads do that with seldom used sidings when they have a surplus of cars.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Mike Fox on October 23, 2018, 11:11:26 PM
I still would like a single ended siding south of the crossing there. Leaving a flat or 3 there would make that much more room in Sheepscot.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: John McNamara on October 23, 2018, 11:28:59 PM
I still would like a single ended siding south of the crossing there. Leaving a flat or 3 there would make that much more room in Sheepscot.
Many years ago Jason and I talked about a possible siding there, so the telephone box has the unusual feature of having wooden slots on the back of the door to hold a small clipboard. The clipboard would be used to record train orders received by telephone at that location. Track-laying advanced to Alna Center so quickly that this idea near reached fruition.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Bill Reidy on October 24, 2018, 12:07:14 AM
I still would like a single ended siding south of the crossing there. Leaving a flat or 3 there would make that much more room in Sheepscot.

Grading accommodations were made at Sheepscot Mills for an east side siding south of the crossing back in 2000-1, and I remember discussions about it back then.  The main line there was built in 2001.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Wayne Laepple on October 24, 2018, 12:29:58 AM
If a siding were located on the east side of the main line south of the Sheepscot Mills crossing, it would be a good place to stash such rolling stock as the aforementioned flatcars, the ramp car and perhaps even derelict equipment awaiting shop time at either Sheepscot or ML&M. I would favor the switch at the north end and a large pile of dirt at the south end!
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Paul Uhland on October 24, 2018, 12:47:22 AM
So what is proposed is a dual-purpose spur, to soon serve Bryan's place and provide overflow WW&F car storage.
Not to nitpick, but to minimize confusion I learned that a siding is connected, usually parallel, to a main track at each end, a spur only at one end.
Looks like you'll put in a points-north switch, a single-point derail and a couple hundred feet of track.
Nice.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Jason M Lamontagne on October 24, 2018, 12:51:52 AM
Honestly, given the development of ML&M (which began well after we built through and planned the east side siding), I believe a siding on the west side makes worlds more sense.  This keeps us at one main line switch, and allows more fluent switching of ML&M.  While the east side has been graded, grading of the west side is a simple matter and Brian would probably be willing to do that for us. 

A second main line switch and second siding, whereby the main must be accessed to switch them both, and we’re toying with another set of yard limits.  A single main line switch cleanly avoids that.

The idea of a west side stub end spur has been occurring to me for some time- but I figured first things first.  I do rather think a siding on the east side would be a wasted opportunity at this point.

See ya
Jason
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Bill Reidy on October 24, 2018, 01:17:00 AM
Thanks Jason.  Not suggesting an east side siding is worthwhile at this point -- just remembering past history.  Glad to see the focus is now on a west side siding for ML&M.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Wayne Laepple on October 24, 2018, 01:35:12 AM
Well, certainly, if you put it that way. A single switch off the main track, with another switch on the siding to allow for a parallel storage track, as well as access to ML&M, makes better sense. And I still think a single-end siding at this location is better than a double-ended one, for safety reasons.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Dwight Winkley on October 24, 2018, 02:45:49 AM
To Paul and other readers. We are now talking about building more than one track. A south facing spur track on the west side of the ROW that would go to Brain's shop.

Years ago on the east side of the Row, the Row was widened for a passing track. This was never built.

Now we are talking about building a track (not sure if it will be a siding or spur) on the west side of the Row. This west track would start off of the spur into Brain's shop.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Bill Baskerville on October 24, 2018, 03:15:02 AM
if the two switches (main line switch and ML&M switch) were separated by at least one car length it would allow Brian the ability (with proper dispatch orders which would include our temporarily relocating any stored rolling stock) to, when necessary, pass thru the derail to the siding (without fowling the main) and use the siding to exercise locomotives that he repairs.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Mike Fox on October 24, 2018, 11:42:54 AM
The problem with a parallel storage track on the West side is the visibility at the crossing may be reduced by stored cars/equipment. One switch mainline switch may make more sense, but not always. The East location is far enough South from the crossing that visibility would not be a concern.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Jeff Schumaker on October 24, 2018, 02:04:25 PM
A spur at ML&M, another Bridgton boxcar on site - you guys are making it tempting to come up for Victorian Christmas.

Jeff S.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Joe Fox on October 24, 2018, 02:38:00 PM
Preferably the main line stays as original as possible. If we want to store cars, we could always use the Woods Track to store cars on. Especially sinceit is used so infrequently unless we have a car coming in or going out. Switches and track are costly to maintain, and we currently have switches already waiting for attention. Until we get a designated trak crew 1 day a week at minimum I personally am against any additional switches to maintain or track to maintain besides what we already have planned.

Lets fix and maintain what we have first, then talk about adding "spare" tracks that are more of a desire than a need. The ML&M spur is a definate need, and I understand that. A siding at Sheepscot for 4 wheeled cars, and engines would be benificial as well and getting to be a must. Anything beyond that should wait for track maintenance machines.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on October 24, 2018, 02:52:20 PM
Quote
Preferably the main line stays as original as possible.

In at least one of the WW&F history books, mention is made of a siding somewhere between Alna Center and Sheepscot that was used for lumber operations. I think it was somewhat temporary. I do not know if the location of this siding has ever been ascertained (or confirmed.) I like to think that it was somewhere near Sheepscot Mills.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Joe Fox on October 24, 2018, 02:57:28 PM
The sawmill was off loaded at Alna Center or planned to be off loaded but never transpired if memory serves correctly. (Referring to Two Feet to Tidewater)
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Mike Fox on October 24, 2018, 03:37:52 PM
It was a "stolen" saw mill. Eventually returned.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Ed Lecuyer on October 24, 2018, 03:43:04 PM
My understanding is that the "stolen sawmill at Alna Center" is completely separate from the temporary siding used for lumber operations somewhere near Sheepscot Mills.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Dana Deering on October 24, 2018, 06:18:10 PM
Hi Everyone,

     Whatever is decided about location and number of sidings at Sheepscot Mills, would someone make sure that when a date is decided upon for the actual work that some advance notice gets out so that I, and others, can plan to be there?  Unless this is another weekday crew project, in which case those of us who still work during the week can't make it.  Sometimes things happen quickly or on the down low and only a few hear about it.  I was on vacation the week the crew went to Portland to get the boxcars ready for transport and could have helped out (and it is only about 14 miles from home) if I had known it was happening.  Thanks!

Dana

And yes, I know, if I had a cell phone... :)
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Joe Fox on October 24, 2018, 07:37:19 PM
Some of the work will be a week day project, but some could happen on a weekend. Slightly off topic but is there interest from the Albion goers to do a Sheepscot work day instead? If so I will coordinate, but most likely unable to attend.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: John McNamara on October 25, 2018, 12:03:50 AM
Some of the work will be a week day project, but some could happen on a weekend. Slightly off topic but is there interest from the Albion goers to do a Sheepscot work day instead? If so I will coordinate, but most likely unable to attend.
By now all the local folks have received their WW&F Newsletters complete with some beautiful color photos (thanks to Stewart, Brendan, and Mike S). It advertises an "Albion Day" on November 3rd, as printing was already in progress when the cancellation occurred. I'm hoping that "Albion goers" actually go....
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: James Patten on October 25, 2018, 12:30:23 AM
It would be nice to have a track work day out on the line in lieu of going to Albion.
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: John McNamara on October 25, 2018, 12:39:40 AM
It would be nice to have a track work day out on the line in lieu of going to Albion.
Agreed; now the only problem is what to do about people who think there's an event there. I suppose a sign at both places would do the trick...
Title: Re: Spur(s) to/at ML&M at Sheepscot Mills
Post by: Joe Fox on October 25, 2018, 01:10:11 AM
If we can generate interest I would love to line some track, and do other repairs including maybe more tamping and ballasting.

North End of Davis curve (unofficially) will get the same treatment Cockeyed Curve got with staggered joints next spring.